57 replies to this topic

[Captain Caveman DE]

I'm not in the "mech is OP" department, yet, but:

Looking at the StoneRhinos, my beloved Spiritbear sits in a dark corner, depressed and crying.
there HAS to be some rebalance incoming.

Edited by Captain Caveman DE, 30 July 2023 - 03:16 AM.

[sycocys]

crazytimes, on 29 July 2023 - 07:33 PM, said:

Most of the market for Battletech IP that want to play an online game already are. If they roll out MWO2 - there are two choices. Carry over purchases and gut their own business plan, or don't carry over purchases from MWO1 and alienate the vast majority oif their customer base.

There is no way I'd put my hand in my pocket for MWO2. I came here from World of Tanks and World of Warships, plenty of other F2P games to move to if MWO2 happens.

A massive portion of their player base no longer currently plays (or pays anything) because they didn't develop out a game and the few things they did do were catered towards the desires of a very, very small portion of the player base until they started seeing huge chunks of players walk away - so they started to walk everything back to the point the game is basically back to beta/launch with a few more maps.

Losing what is in actuality a small number of players compared to the overall population we had - a fair number of which were part of that catered to crowd that caused the population to tank - because they hate anything not f2p and/or cant carry over their roster from a 10 year old game that can't/won't be developed would actually be a good thing for the game series and company.

Sorry if that hurts your feelings, but losing the players that keep it from being able to advance and proceed on for another decade instead of continuing to dwindle towards shut down - that's not a bad thing.

[RockmachinE]

sycocys, on 30 July 2023 - 04:45 AM, said:

losing the players that keep it from being able to advance and proceed on for another decade instead of continuing to dwindle towards shut down - that's not a bad thing.

Loosing any number of players is a bad thing. Players are the lifeblood of a MMO. You bleed enough players the game dies.

[w0qj]

+1
Agree

SR is good, slightly op maybe, but it's got major weakness in its dorsal gun that's a bullet (or laser) magnet.
And forget about Radar Deprivation, with everyone and their dog seeing your dorsal gun sticking out like a sore thumb!

I'm playing the SR, it's fun to play, but everyone targets the SR first, and it's mandatory dorsal gun is a big big minus for me.

==>And everyone can get all the Stone Rhino variants for free (CBills or grinded out MC) within months.

==>Crusader Crael hero mech was introduced June 2022, and yet we all can get it for free now, one year later!

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Contrast this with the Kodiak KDK-3, it was so powerful that:
~Engine desync was introduced to nerf KDK-3 mobility (even now, KDK-3 acceleration/deceleration is still lagging vs variants).
~Ghost Heat was introduced because of KDK-3 using 4x UAC10 !

The Stone Rhino is nowhere near the level of KDK-3 is OP that it was years ago.
Just my 2 cents

JudauAshta, on 30 July 2023 - 02:57 AM, said:

SR is good slightly op maybe but its no launch kodiak

that thing was bonkers lmao
oh how i miss it

[Mechwarrior2342356]

w0qj, on 30 July 2023 - 06:39 AM, said:

+1
Agree

SR is good, slightly op maybe, but it's got major weakness in its dorsal gun that's a bullet (or laser) magnet.
And forget about Radar Deprivation, with everyone and their dog seeing your dorsal gun sticking out like a sore thumb!

I'm playing the SR, it's fun to play, but everyone targets the SR first, and it's mandatory dorsal gun is a big big minus for me.

==>And everyone can get all the Stone Rhino variants for free (CBills or grinded out MC) within months.

==>Crusader Crael hero mech was introduced June 2022, and yet we all can get it for free now, one year later!

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Contrast this with the Kodiak KDK-3, it was so powerful that:
~Engine desync was introduced to nerf KDK-3 mobility (even now, KDK-3 acceleration/deceleration is still lagging vs variants).
~Ghost Heat was introduced because of KDK-3 using 4x UAC10 !

The Stone Rhino is nowhere near the level of KDK-3 is OP that it was years ago.
Just my 2 cents

This is probably all very true but this is the now, the KDK3 can no longer be complained about.

[sycocys]

RockmachinE, on 30 July 2023 - 04:57 AM, said:

Loosing any number of players is a bad thing. Players are the lifeblood of a MMO. You bleed enough players the game dies.

Losing the ones that are detrimental to the expansion and continued existence/next generation of the game so that they can have the opportunity to bring back the lion's share of the players that were driven away... small loss for a substantial upside on the other end.

[Mechwarrior2342356]

sycocys, on 30 July 2023 - 11:04 AM, said:

Losing the ones that are detrimental to the expansion and continued existence/next generation of the game so that they can have the opportunity to bring back the lion's share of the players that were driven away... small loss for a substantial upside on the other end.

What makes you believe that an MWO2 will bring back the alienated?

[Curccu]

the check engine light, on 30 July 2023 - 11:15 AM, said:

What makes you believe that an MWO2 will bring back the alienated?

They keep Russ, Paul and Chris away from the balance, I think that would be enough for many.

[Mechwarrior2342356]

Curccu, on 30 July 2023 - 11:31 AM, said:

They keep Russ, Paul and Chris away from the balance, I think that would be enough for many.

It might.

[SafeScanner]

Curccu, on 30 July 2023 - 11:31 AM, said:

They keep Russ, Paul and Chris away from the balance, I think that would be enough for many.

who are these people, russ is the ceo right

[PublicWifi]

Balance is a clear issue if PGI is basing their decisions on casual players. There's an obvious disparity in damage between player types with these new mechs. In the right hands, yes, they're annoyingly OP.

[sycocys]

the check engine light, on 30 July 2023 - 11:15 AM, said:

What makes you believe that an MWO2 will bring back the alienated?

MW5 being a continued success despite their inability to move away from centering their sales model on mechpacks would be a pretty good indicator of where a substantial portion of that missing player base shifted to.

It also provides a platform that they (the company) is capable of actually programming the game in. This and as was mentioned Russ and Paul's choices to balance and shift the game design to cater to a small portion of the player base lost the game a huge portion of their population.

They are also being overseen by a company that, at the end of the day, they have to report to - so continuing to try to drive down the path of e-sports and comp design (as they did previously) for that small population as their focus without having the population to drive that isn't something that would be approved. It would be relegated to a side project, unless they could prove it to actually be generating more profit than developing a game for the filthy casuals.

[RockmachinE]

sycocys, on 31 July 2023 - 04:03 AM, said:

MW5 being a continued success despite their inability to move away from centering their sales model on mechpacks would be a pretty good indicator of where a substantial portion of that missing player base shifted to.

I disagree with the assumption. MWO and MW5 are completely different games. One is a multiplayer MMO, the other a singleplayer game. The only overlap is Battletech and Mechwarrior fans which are less significant in number then you think, just read the Steam reviews.

I don't care about Battletech. I love MWO, I hate MW5. I play for the MMO aspect, not fot the BT aspect, there's lots of people like me.

[Mechwarrior2342356]

RockmachinE, on 31 July 2023 - 05:22 AM, said:

I disagree with the assumption. MWO and MW5 are completely different games. One is a multiplayer MMO, the other a singleplayer game. The only overlap is Battletech and Mechwarrior fans which are less significant in number then you think, just read the Steam reviews.

I don't care about Battletech. I love MWO, I hate MW5. I play for the MMO aspect, not fot the BT aspect, there's lots of people like me.

While the DLCs seem okay I am overall giving MW5 a 3/5 (got better with mods) because the AI is so bad that it gets very dull to run the typical sandboxy cycle, the overall feel of timescale and mission layout gets to be a drag. It feels very on rails with mission triggers being so rigid and specific that being clever or otherwise not running things exactly how the devs envisioned actually breaks missions at times and forces a restart. A lot of cheap shots with teleporting SRM carriers.

With mods it's easily 4/5. Ryana and Fahad are irritating. Mason (you) is very dull compared to Spectre, and if I compare it to MW3 at all it's just crap for VA and story. MW4 was campy, MW5 is uninspired. MW4M had some campiness but decent story beats.

[sycocys]

RockmachinE, on 31 July 2023 - 05:22 AM, said:

I disagree with the assumption. MWO and MW5 are completely different games. One is a multiplayer MMO, the other a singleplayer game. The only overlap is Battletech and Mechwarrior fans which are less significant in number then you think, just read the Steam reviews.

I don't care about Battletech. I love MWO, I hate MW5. I play for the MMO aspect, not fot the BT aspect, there's lots of people like me.

It's definitely a multiplayer game for the players/units that want to run drops. It's also available across multiple launcher sources as well as game platforms.

You have every right to hate MW5 for whatever reasons you like, it still stands that they proved that with some actual oversight above Russ the company is capable of producing something more than the simple death match arena, still haven't figured out how to tap into the small dlc and bundled pack market but at least on that engine they are capable of programming a game.

The only things left here are meme legendary mechs, occasional new mechs with massive hardpoint inflation to drive sales, and maybe a few more maps until they find a more profitable way to use that guy's time.

[TheCaptainJZ]

Bad0rk, on 29 July 2023 - 06:08 AM, said:

Hey there CaptainJZ. I felt for the longest time the same way you did really. I also feel that this is a RECENT development which is why I am bringing it up now. I am sure someone better at maths could really look into it. I feel like this is a thing that started with the legendaries (I have 3).

I am curious as to how you feel about the Rhino? Personally? You feel like they are properly balanced? How about the Stone Breaker? Do you think nerfs to Scattershot were required?

For the Rhino for me personally it goes beyond the quirks, it is also the placement of the weapons. Hardpoints are just plain better, though it is ALSO the quirks.

Every time new legendaries come out reddit (for example) seems to rise up yet again with the P2W. I mean I am quite open to discussion, it may very well be that it is just me and a few others feel this way?

I am also curious as to if the Rhinoes will be nerfed in the future, what do you think?

I didn't say it here but I have in other threads recently.

I do take issue with all the power creep in the game. It's been going on for most of MWO's life. And I do think the Legendary mechs and Stone Rhino contribute to this pattern. Nearly all the mechs released recently have been assaults. This patch introduced several 100 ton mechs. I do have a problem with this. And I do think PGI has done this because the players playing the most and buying the most are piloting assaults most of the time. It's far easier and maybe even mandatory to play good assaults to be in Tier 1 because to go up in PSR, you have to be at the top of the match, and damage is the most significant contributor to match score. Players having fun decimating their competition are more likely the ones putting down cash. I get it from a business perspective. I hesitate to call it P2W, but it's power creep for sure. The Legendary mechs are paywalled, and right now the Stone Rhino is too but it will be released for cbills in a few months. I wouldn't be surprised to see nerfs or adjustments on them though, as we saw with the Scattershot and the Moonwalker.

But my post in this thread was about those that see a mech released and then nerfed a month later and they believing that is PGI's way of getting players to buy the latest mech, they have a great time decimating their opponents in it, and then PGI pulls the rug out from underneath them by nerfing it. Then they whine about it and how PGI pulled a "bait and switch" or they planned to do this intentionally so they could release another OP mech the next month and get everyone to buy it because they just nerfed the last one. Perhaps that wasn't really where you were coming from in your original post, but that's what I read initially because I had seen that argument used here before.

The mechs released this patch absolutely look powerful in the weapons loadouts they have but they do have weaknesses in other ways. The Annihilators are slow, as all of them are. The Stone Rhino has bad hitboxes. In the matches I've played lately, I've seen good pilots and bad pilots so I'm not quite sure how to judge them. I just know if I stand in front of one, I'm going to be instakilled. But seems I am able to fly under the radar in my Purifier for the most part (my selection for the light hero in the Beach Party event, and I've been having mostly good matches in it). We'll see how it goes. As long as the assaults are slugging it out among themselves, that should work for me. It's when teams are unbalanced that we start having problems. I spectated a SR the other day that was 1 or 2 shotting everything he saw, pretty much. Ended with 6 kills. Some of them were already damaged though.

[PocketYoda]

the check engine light, on 29 July 2023 - 10:58 PM, said:

If you can accomplish the basic task of getting a Koloss into decent position, point it at anything smaller and click the mouse buttons you will delete ****.

That thing was demolishing ASSAULTS in the EQ. They were getting called as priority targets, **** the Gausszilla, kill the ******* Koloss.

Dunno its the only one i didn't buy.. I hate missiles.

[MechB Kotare]

Aside of Koloss (masc 110-122 facehugging alpha) maybe, Stone rhino is in no way better than any other 100 tonner. Its pretty wide, it has gigantic center torso, you can basically shoot its top guns to hit its ct and you can him them from 300 degree angle. It's wide, even more than direwolf imo, it has no ecm, it has gigantic side torso from sides. It also has gigantic and wide arms, and gigantic legs.

I didn't buy it, and i won't (until its out for cbills), but i have no problems fighting it, and i dont find it OP at all. Also its the new chassis, which is the main reason why it is so overused now. Its the case of almost every single new mech release.

Also, mechs on training grounds have significantly less armour than their builds used by players.

Edited by MechB Kotare, 01 August 2023 - 08:34 AM.