344 replies to this topic

[Void Angel]

People dislike the mode for a reason, man. I have given people in-depth instruction about how Incursion works, and still had the team scatter out and do random things.

People would be better at it if they played it more, but they don't like to play it because it's too complicated, and the options make the people who don't cooperate well anyhow even more unpredictable.

[An6ryMan69]

I never understood the hard feelings about Incursion.

Personally I look at Incursion like Assault but where a single Spider mech is not likely to just rip over and steal a win, as it takes way more time for a fast light to destroy a whole Incursion base than it takes them to win on a cap victory.

I never like capping determining a win in any mode anyways; Incursion victories by base destruction seem far more plausible, and more easily defended against, than standing by some silly capture point.

Edited by An6ryMan69, 12 September 2023 - 09:22 AM.

[Void Angel]

I'm not really against Incursion; it's just that people get confused by the mechanics, and do dumb things:

Take Conquest. The optimal strategy for Conquest is to send your Lights to cap, and then play it like Assault. You have to keep an eye on the cap points, but victory is still nearly always determined by massing fire, making good trades, and maneuvering for position. In other words, it's just like Assault, just with a different objective option; you still mostly win by murdering the enemy team. But when they first introduced Conquest, people were crazy about it. They'd run off in lances and try to hold a capture zone; Lights would refuse to scout or harass, just constantly capping the zones; it was chaos, about half the time. The other half of the time, your team would stay together, focus fire, and follow the fracking Atlas (or etc) to victory over their scattered foes. A lot of matches just felt like your team lost because you won the idiot lottery so many people would vote down Conquest for that reason.

Incursion is the same way, but worse. It introduces mechanics that have a broad effect on the battlefield, which complicates the match - the more complicated the tactical situation, the more likely your teammates are to do something stupi random that doesn't help the team (like camping your base instead of moving with the team, or ignoring the enemy team to try and rush down their base, etc.) This makes matches on Incursion feel like even more of an idiot lottery, and now you know why people hate Incursion. It's like Elo^* Hell in League of Legends: in certain low Elo^* brackets, LoL matches are decided more by who has the more toxic players sabotaging teamwork than your own actual performance, and that makes people hate the game. And mankind. Definitely all mankind... but I digress.

*: Elo is Not An Acronym!

[VaelophisNyx]

Domination being the favorite gamemode of 600 people is baffling given how terrible it feels to play

[Void Angel]

But it doesn't feel terrible. It may confuse people who haven't been playing that long, but it actually forces people to fight each other for the control zone, rather than scattering out to their favorite hiding rock - and that makes for better fights. Take Skirmish as an opposite example; you have people with no objective but "kill the enemy team," so there's nothing actually making someone leave their 1337 Sn1par Sp077 and helping out. And you will see people with long range guns just camp someplace with long sight lines and refuse to move.

Domination fixes that somewhat, giving players an incentive to close with the enemy and fight. It empowers short and mid-range builds a bit, while still allowing long-range 'mech configurations to be effective. You don't even have to stay in the circle. One 'mech inside will stop capture as well as 12, and a good harasser can slow or stop the enemy's cap from outside the circle if you need to do that. It's just a more robust game mode than "kill everyone," or "kill everyone but they might troll cap your base." Not everyone likes it best, but it's really not surprising that Domination is well-liked.

[Felsen]

No matter what battle mode is selected, it almost always ends up as a "kill 'em all" game. It would be nice to have more games won based on the primary objectives than just wiping out the other team.

[Void Angel]

It's hard to balance those objectives when the 'mech capabilities are so random - that's why Incursion went by the wayside, at least in part.

[John Otis]

PGI, stop listening to what the «Cauldron» is telling you. Thanks to their advice, the game is dominated by long-range weapons. Melee is effectively dead. There are very strange people sitting in the «Cauldron» who want to bend the game for themselves.

[Asylum Choir]

Felsen, on 26 October 2023 - 09:44 PM, said:

No matter what battle mode is selected, it almost always ends up as a "kill 'em all" game. It would be nice to have more games won based on the primary objectives than just wiping out the other team.

This.
I am tired of being made to play skirmish by the players. Please make mode random again.

[John Otis]

Asylum Choir, on 31 October 2023 - 05:01 AM, said:

This.
I am tired of being made to play skirmish by the players. Please make mode random again.

I like "Skirmish" and "Domination" modes and don't like "Assault" and "Conquest" ones. A gamer should be able to refuse to play the mode that is not interesting to him, as well as refuse to play on maps that he doesn't like.

[Kamiko Kross]

John Otis, on 31 October 2023 - 09:21 AM, said:

I like "Skirmish" and "Domination" modes and don't like "Assault" and "Conquest" ones. A gamer should be able to refuse to play the mode that is not interesting to him, as well as refuse to play on maps that he doesn't like.

Sadly though, you would be able to force me to skirmish:(

[John Otis]

Kamiko Kross, on 31 October 2023 - 10:45 AM, said:

Sadly though, you would be able to force me to skirmish:(

It is necessary to add a section in the game settings in which the user can specify game modes and maps that he doesn't want to play on.  If, for example, I've choose an assault Mech with a brawler build, the last thing I'd like to do is play on "Alpine Peaks".

[Crazyindianjoe]

One of my favorite MWO event memories was the "Foolish things to do in MWO this weekend" event for April Fool's this year where the only way to achieve the event reward "This is the frustrating one - sorry" was to play the objective.

https://mwomercs.com/events/440

It happened a few times in different matches but the one that stands out for me is one on Emerald Vale where it came down to a Rifleman(?) and a Kitfox against an Annihilator with no side torsos, no weapons, slowly but surely crawling towards it's own home cap. The Rifleman and Kitfox still had weapons and could drop the Annihilator at any time but they needed to win by cap for the event reward. So the Rifleman was capping and the Kitfox was desperately trying to get in the way of the Annihilator to stop it from getting to the cap. It was absolutely hilarious to watch this tiny Kitfox stubbornly pushing against the shins of a completely harmless Annihilator. That was a win that was both earned and memorable.

There should be more options available than every match being able to degenerate into kill em all. Conquest is interesting because if you've capped enough it still allows you to win even if your whole team dies. There's a reason why it's the chosen mode in Comp. There's been numerous matches where your side won because the your last remaining guy managed to delay the opposing team long enough for you to win by cap. Skirmish can be interesting in that it allows you do go different routes and try different tactics. You can use the whole map! Not that many people do but anything that encourages people to use the entirety of the map rather than a small portion of it is good. With that being said, Domination is not interesting as it forces you to fight in the same spot every time and people are disappointed if you win by counting out the circle. I may be in the minority (pun intended) but my favourite mode was Incursion because it forced you to play the mode. In all honesty Assault is just a sad and inferior version of Incursion and Conquest. If we're going to have a base to capture there should be something we need to do rather than just sit on it. Having fuel cells and radar, jamming, etc. gives lights something to do while the slow *** assaults are getting into position and provides valuable intel. Having buildings that take time to destroy while turrets are shooting at you is a lot better than a single cap point that two lights with capture accelerator can cap in like 30 seconds. Even if the whole opposing team beelines it to your base it'll still take time for them to destroy it in Incursion whereas in Assault the match is over in seconds with nary a shot being fired.

[Reckless Impulse]

Is this the right palce to talk about maps? In Bear Claw 2 the map has a crevasse between the top corner connecting E3 and E2 that a mech can fall into and not get out, pretty sad to need to use the eject for that.

[Void Angel]

Reckless Impulse, on 25 November 2023 - 09:41 PM, said:

Is this the right palce to talk about maps? In Bear Claw 2 the map has a crevasse between the top corner connecting E3 and E2 that a mech can fall into and not get out, pretty sad to need to use the eject for that.

There's actually a specific forum for that - Bear Claw II doesn't have its own subforum yet, but there's a thread about your issue Here.

[KingCobra]

the check engine light, on 04 December 2023 - 05:35 PM, said:

I swear to god playing lately is like wanting linguine with pesto and garlic bread for dinner but having that little brother who screams and holds his breath until mom just ******* makes hot dogs for the 11th time in a goddamn row, with the map selections

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I could not agree more last night I played Canyon Ex least 10 times and 3 right in a row the MAP voting system needs to take a long walk off of a short pier. For far to long has this crappy system been in place and MWO needs to go back to a random map system so we can once again play all the maps in the game.

Plus, I would not mind if we also had random game modes as well to stop the Domination boredom in game play PGI you have made the game boring and horrible leaving this system in place for so long heck we don't even get to play the new maps very often which just plain stinks.

[Void Angel]

But then we'd have to play Alpine Peaks, and nobody deserves to be punished like that.

I'm serious. The map voting system is worthwhile purely for the ability to avoid Alpine Peaks. Similarly, loadouts like ATMs, LRMs, or brawling have some maps that are dramatically less effective for them. If we just go pure random map rotation, you're going to see players gravitate toward weapon loadouts and strategies that aren't penalized so much by those maps.

As the poster child for why map voting is a thing, having a brawling loadout on Alpine Peaks is a punishment: it's literally like this:




So I think it might be better to improve maps that aren't upvoted as often, and retain player agency about what map to play.

[KingCobra]

Void Angel, on 28 December 2023 - 12:47 PM, said:

But then we'd have to play Alpine Peaks, and nobody deserves to be punished like that.

I'm serious. The map voting system is worthwhile purely for the ability to avoid Alpine Peaks. Similarly, loadouts like ATMs, LRMs, or brawling have some maps that are dramatically less effective for them. If we just go pure random map rotation, you're going to see players gravitate toward weapon loadouts and strategies that aren't penalized so much by those maps.

As the poster child for why map voting is a thing, having a brawling loadout on Alpine Peaks is a punishment: it's literally like this:




So I think it might be better to improve maps that aren't upvoted as often, and retain player agency about what map to play.

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Like so many others you just do not want to admit you would have to learn better tactics to win matches on any map MWO has there are no bad maps in MWO there all good maps with a few bugs if you and others that cannot adapt to all the maps MWO has to offer. Then I SUGGEST YOU GO LOOK IN A MIRRIOR and you will see the true problem it is yourselves.

[Void Angel]

The true enemy is apparently punctuation - and logical thought. There is no reasonable person who can honestly claim that Alpine Peaks does not yield a massive advantage to long-range builds, and place brawlers at a severe disadvantage. The urban terrain in Solaris is crippling for LRM and ATM builds as well, for another example. If you want to play those builds, it's really annoying to draw a heavily occluded map - and forcing people to just roll the dice when some maps significantly cripple a build style isn't a good idea. You can scream "get gud" in an unformatted wall of text and insults as much as you like; it's not going to change the actual facts of map topography. If there is a significant risk of getting a map like Alpine, where you literally lose the match in the mechlab, people are just going to play those builds less. So the game is going to have more people playing the long-range, PPFLD meta that's already dominating. Congratulations! You've just made the game more "boring and horrible" - and we haven't even talked about mixing in random game modes on top of it. Just for starters, one of the ways to mitigate Alpine's painful imbalance is to select a map mode other than Assault/Skirmish.

So the map voting system isn't the problem; it's not making the game "terrible and unfun" because you have to play maps you don't like as well as often as you'd prefer. The problem is you - go contemplate your metaphorical mirror, and don't rage at me when I question your agitation for the removal of other players' choices.

PS: the day I take game advice from a poster child for the Dunning-Kruger Effect, it's time for me to hang up my neurohelmet.

[KingCobra]

Void Angel, on 28 December 2023 - 03:56 PM, said:

The true enemy is apparently punctuation - and logical thought. There is no reasonable person who can honestly claim that Alpine Peaks does not yield a massive advantage to long-range builds, and place brawlers at a severe disadvantage. The urban terrain in Solaris is crippling for LRM and ATM builds as well, for another example. If you want to play those builds, it's really annoying to draw a heavily occluded map - and forcing people to just roll the dice when some maps significantly cripple a build style isn't a good idea. You can scream "get gud" in an unformatted wall of text and insults as much as you like; it's not going to change the actual facts of map topography. If there is a significant risk of getting a map like Alpine, where you literally lose the match in the mechlab, people are just going to play those builds less. So the game is going to have more people playing the long-range, PPFLD meta that's already dominating. Congratulations! You've just made the game more "boring and horrible" - and we haven't even talked about mixing in random game modes on top of it. Just for starters, one of the ways to mitigate Alpine's painful imbalance is to select a map mode other than Assault/Skirmish.

So the map voting system isn't the problem; it's not making the game "terrible and unfun" because you have to play maps you don't like as well as often as you'd prefer. The problem is you - go contemplate your metaphorical mirror, and don't rage at me when I question your agitation for the removal of other players' choices.

PS: the day I take game advice from a poster child for the Dunning-Kruger Effect, it's time for me to hang up my neurohelmet.

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I think many of you are just scared to play all the maps and are unwilling to learn the team tactics that would give you all a win I see it all the time but Random map mode in this game WAS FAR MORE FUN THAN THIS INSANE MAP VOTING SYSTEM and no matter your build you can be effective and get kills and wins on any map MWO has to offer.

And yes, it is totally unfun and boring playing the same few maps every night for years so many players I have on my friend list finally said enough I'm gone I will not play this game anymore and one of the main factors was the terrible mini map system along with other issues of not fixing critical things in MWO.

So, I leave you with this quote as it fits those that think the mini map system is ok. ( “Insanity is doing the same thing, over and over again, but expecting different results.” ...).

P. S you also spelled Nuro Helmet wrong.

Edited by KingCobra, 29 December 2023 - 06:56 AM.