47 replies to this topic

[Curccu]

Lordhammer, on 17 August 2023 - 12:24 PM, said:

Well, IS assaults like Stalker will be able to 4 Blazers without GH, which will be considerably more powerful than what they have now. 72dmg on high mounts like Stalker, gonna be interesting.

Yeah Stalker-4N looks pretty powerful with blazers, some mechs might be good because limited hardpoints and good quirks because of that, like St.Ives'Blues... if blazers count as standard large lasers... who knows.

[KursedVixen]

Curccu, on 17 August 2023 - 01:03 AM, said:

HPS is irrelevant.


Ignoring lore... why should they be hotter? Perfectly in line with large laser which is comparable weapon (2xLL vs 1xBL).
Just helps slot starved mechs, which IS side has plenty.

becaue all of Inner sphere stuff runs much colder than TT. while most clan stuff runs either hotter or exactly at TT Values, while having in some cases less range than TT. WHiel clan double heat sinks do not compensate for this at all. Add on all quirks that IS gets which are almost always higher than Clans and yeah...

it's alot less common to see any quirk that's not armor on a clan mech that is more than 5.... specially on omnis. that are not in the set of 8.

it's also a 1 slot bigger 5 ton heavier heavy large laser.... in TT it does only 12 damage not 18.


ontop of that IS get's a better skill tree your laser duration is higher your heat gen is higher.... i believe the skill tree should be equal on both sides because IS does not need faster lasers when they already have them by default.

Edited by KursedVixen, 17 August 2023 - 01:34 PM.

[LordNothing]

feeWAIVER, on 15 August 2023 - 06:41 AM, said:

Are you saying we're getting more weapons?
Clan needs more ppc choices imo.

not really much left. ippc would just be flat out obsoleted by the cerppc. its just an is ppc in a 6t, 2s package. capped ppcs are an is thing, clans dont get it till 3100s, that could work but the is would get them too, it would be weird otherwise. the only problem is that the clans have the best ppc in the game. its kind of a er-heavy hybrid.

you could just pull something out of thin air. rather than a beefier ppc, maybe a snub-light hybrid. micro ppc. 2t, 1s, 3+1+1 damage, 2.5s cd, 360 optimal range, 4 heat. totally apocryphal but it along with the ippc could at least give the clans some more options.

Edited by LordNothing, 17 August 2023 - 06:10 PM.

[KursedVixen]

LordNothing, on 17 August 2023 - 06:09 PM, said:

not really much left. ippc would just be flat out obsoleted by the cerppc. its just an is ppc in a 6t, 2s package. capped ppcs are an is thing, clans dont get it till 3100s, that could work but the is would get them too, it would be weird otherwise. the only problem is that the clans have the best ppc in the game. its kind of a er-heavy hybrid.

you could just pull something out of thin air. rather than a beefier ppc, maybe a snub-light hybrid. micro ppc. 2t, 1s, 3+1+1 damage, 2.5s cd, 360 optimal range, 4 heat. totally apocryphal but it along with the ippc could at least give the clans some more options.

streak Lrms more range no dumbfire

Edited by KursedVixen, 17 August 2023 - 07:09 PM.

[Curccu]

KursedVixen, on 17 August 2023 - 12:43 PM, said:

becaue all of Inner sphere stuff runs much colder than TT. while most clan stuff runs either hotter or exactly at TT Values, while having in some cases less range than TT. WHiel clan double heat sinks do not compensate for this at all. Add on all quirks that IS gets which are almost always higher than Clans and yeah...

it's alot less common to see any quirk that's not armor on a clan mech that is more than 5.... specially on omnis. that are not in the set of 8.

it's also a 1 slot bigger 5 ton heavier heavy large laser.... in TT it does only 12 damage not 18.


ontop of that IS get's a better skill tree your laser duration is higher your heat gen is higher.... i believe the skill tree should be equal on both sides because IS does not need faster lasers when they already have them by default.

Now ignorin lore --> TT.. I fail to see reasoning why do you think BL should be hotter than it is in MWO.

[Hauptmann Keg Steiner]

Curccu, on 17 August 2023 - 01:03 AM, said:

HPS is irrelevant.

Just as irrelevant as DPH is: in a vacuum. Like, try saying Gauss is 24 times better than ER PPCs solely on the strength of their relative DPHs, lol

[Curccu]

Hauptmann Keg Steiner, on 17 August 2023 - 11:47 PM, said:

Just as irrelevant as DPH is: in a vacuum. Like, try saying Gauss is 24 times better than ER PPCs solely on the strength of their relative DPHs, lol

Rolls eyes....
Has anyone tried comparing those weapons solely with DPH? No?

What relevancy does HPS have when comparing PL to XPL?

[Samziel]

KursedVixen, on 17 August 2023 - 12:43 PM, said:

becaue all of Inner sphere stuff runs much colder than TT. while most clan stuff runs either hotter or exactly at TT Values, while having in some cases less range than TT. WHiel clan double heat sinks do not compensate for this at all. Add on all quirks that IS gets which are almost always higher than Clans and yeah...

it's alot less common to see any quirk that's not armor on a clan mech that is more than 5.... specially on omnis. that are not in the set of 8.

it's also a 1 slot bigger 5 ton heavier heavy large laser.... in TT it does only 12 damage not 18.


ontop of that IS get's a better skill tree your laser duration is higher your heat gen is higher.... i believe the skill tree should be equal on both sides because IS does not need faster lasers when they already have them by default.

It makes no sense to compare a tabletop game to a FPS. This game would be super **** with TT values.

Also clan laservomit is much better than IS overall. Most likely not gonna change with this patch.

[Hauptmann Keg Steiner]

Curccu, on 18 August 2023 - 02:10 AM, said:

What relevancy does HPS have when comparing PL to XPL?

When trying to point out how hot a weapon is it might be a stat worth pointing out; if your memory has failed you, this whole reply chain started with you WELL ACKSHUALLYing Duke Falcon for saying XPLs run hotter than regular PLs.

DPH only tells you how efficient a weapon is with doing damage with its heat and not how hot it runs. HPS is a better gauge of that, since it's a function of heat over time. XPLs will run hotter than regular PLs (especially if you're face staring enough to get real damage in), but they are fractionally more efficient with turning that heat into damage if you don't miss too often. And I do mean fractionally; that fraction is so small it won't show up on MechDB, since it rounds MPL/LPL DPH up to what MXPL/LXPL will be.

Edited by Hauptmann Keg Steiner, 18 August 2023 - 06:43 AM.

[Athom83]

KursedVixen, on 17 August 2023 - 12:43 PM, said:

ontop of that IS get's a better skill tree your laser duration is higher your heat gen is higher.... i believe the skill tree should be equal on both sides because IS does not need faster lasers when they already have them by default.

20% of 10 is 2

20% of 20 is 4

2 is 10% of 20

Clan Laser Durration does not need as big of a percentage buff to get the same amount of benefit as the IS one, which is why the IS one is a higher percentage.

KursedVixen, on 17 August 2023 - 12:43 PM, said:

becaue all of Inner sphere stuff runs much colder than TT. while most clan stuff runs either hotter or exactly at TT Values, while having in some cases less range than TT. WHiel clan double heat sinks do not compensate for this at all. Add on all quirks that IS gets which are almost always higher than Clans and yeah...

Good joke.

[LordNothing]

KursedVixen, on 17 August 2023 - 07:04 PM, said:

streak Lrms more range no dumbfire

was mostly talking about mgs in that post. but new missiles are needed, especially on the clan side (clan missiles are boring, especially lacking midrange dumbfire options eg: mrm/rockets).

mmls bring is pairity with atms. but that doesnt do much for the clans.

both sides can have mech mortars. dumbfire, indirect, aoe weapon. i want to say use them to fill the mrm niche on the clan side, but im not sure its close enough in function for that to work. its the same kind of problem with mrms/atms, they kind of work in the same range bracket but are completely different in usage. its up for debate if these are in parity (or even if parity is even important).

streak lrms and inferno ssrms are available to the clans, but it doesnt quite fill the midrange dumbfire niche.

Edited by LordNothing, 18 August 2023 - 10:30 AM.

[Curccu]

Hauptmann Keg Steiner, on 18 August 2023 - 06:43 AM, said:

When trying to point out how hot a weapon is it might be a stat worth pointing out; if your memory has failed you, this whole reply chain started with you WELL ACKSHUALLYing Duke Falcon for saying XPLs run hotter than regular PLs.

DPH only tells you how efficient a weapon is with doing damage with its heat and not how hot it runs. HPS is a better gauge of that, since it's a function of heat over time. XPLs will run hotter than regular PLs (especially if you're face staring enough to get real damage in), but they are fractionally more efficient with turning that heat into damage if you don't miss too often. And I do mean fractionally; that fraction is so small it won't show up on MechDB, since it rounds MPL/LPL DPH up to what MXPL/LXPL will be.

My memory doesn't fail me and HPS is not better gauge than DPH to tell if weapon runs hot or not.
Heat in second for what? Having good or bad HPS what does it matter if you cannot tell from that stat what have you gained with that heat?
How much damage can you deal with with heat, that is meaningful.

[Hawk819]

Any word on whether ER Pulse and RACs will be added for the Clans? If so, when?

[Hauptmann Keg Steiner]

Curccu, on 18 August 2023 - 12:55 PM, said:

My memory doesn't fail me and HPS is not better gauge than DPH to tell if weapon runs hot or not.
Heat in second for what? Having good or bad HPS what does it matter if you cannot tell from that stat what have you gained with that heat?
How much damage can you deal with with heat, that is meaningful.

"How fast a weapon generates heat is not a better gauge of how hot a weapon runs"
lol

[Bassault]

MechB Kotare, on 15 August 2023 - 02:14 AM, said:

Can we finally get some more pinpoint balistic variations on clan side? For example changing all clan regular ACs (not just cAC5s) into one projectiled (slug) balistics?

Edit:
Especially considering the fact, that they are still highly inferior to cUACs

Nope. I've already argued with the cauldron about it ad nauseum. They are content to keep autocannons dogshit because they want to keep lasers strong. They told me that they can go in a game and do 600 dmg with ballistics, so they're fine. The cauldron wants giga laservomit meta and it won't change ever.

Edited by Bassault, 18 August 2023 - 01:46 PM.

[pbiggz]

KursedVixen, on 17 August 2023 - 07:04 PM, said:

streak Lrms more range no dumbfire

Like many things in TT, the idea of streaks translates terribly between TT and a real time game. Streak SRMs are next to impossible for PGI to work with because either they're trivially easy to use or never worth the tonnage. Why do you think doubling down on that mechanic makes any kind of sense at all? I mean, other than your bizarre fixation on TT.

[-OUTLAW-]

the check engine light, on 15 August 2023 - 06:27 AM, said:

The Blazer is probably not a direct competitor to hlls but I am mildly concerned it may outmode standard LLs somewhat, waiting to see. Hard to gauge whether Xpulses offer substantially lower ttk than standard IS pulses against stationary dummy targets, but I kind of doubt they will be OP, waiting to see on that. HAGs are interesting and I kind of wonder how they will affect gameplay given how poorly regarded RACs have been.

Blazer is the IS equivalent of a Clan Heavy Laser.

[KursedVixen]

Curccu, on 17 August 2023 - 08:50 PM, said:

Now ignorin lore --> TT.. I fail to see reasoning why do you think BL should be hotter than it is in MWO.

i'm saying it should be the heat it is in BT which it is not.

-OUTLAW-, on 18 August 2023 - 11:36 PM, said:

Blazer is the IS equivalent of a Clan Heavy Laser.

how well are normal large lasers anyway?

pbiggz, on 18 August 2023 - 03:27 PM, said:

Like many things in TT, the idea of streaks translates terribly between TT and a real time game. Streak SRMs are next to impossible for PGI to work with because either they're trivially easy to use or never worth the tonnage. Why do you think doubling down on that mechanic makes any kind of sense at all? I mean, other than your bizarre fixation on TT.

the only other weapon they can add for clans from TT other than clan racs. Because at present PGi has only added weapons that are canon to BT lore.

So unless you want StreakMRMs there's not much else to go off of for clan weapons.

Edited by KursedVixen, 18 August 2023 - 11:54 PM.

[Curccu]

KursedVixen, on 18 August 2023 - 11:52 PM, said:

i'm saying it should be the heat it is in BT which it is not.

Why would you want weapon to be obsolete when it is added to game?
How many weapons we got in game that has stock BT values other than their damage?

[Alex Morgaine]

please craft up some LAC 2 and 5s or light/med/heavy rifles. Clan can get the protomech ac line