Tywren, on 25 August 2023 - 04:22 AM, said:
Fair enough, I forget that IS machine guns are .5 tons not .25, so 8 DPS for 2.5t on the Crale due to dropping down to light MGs.
IS light machine guns are 0.5 per weapon as well => you won't get 10 IS machine guns of any at under 5t. So with 10 light mgs we're talking 8.5 dps at 5 tons plus at least 1 ton of ammo
Tywren, on 25 August 2023 - 04:22 AM, said:
That's still a large laser of damage output every second for half the weight, with absolutely no heat.
So it's actually
- 0.5 damage less (light mgs) or 1 damage more (standard mgs)
- at at least 1 more ton in weight
- at least 11 crit slots vs. 2
- 75% (light mgs) and ~28% of optimal range (before skills)
- ~57% (light mgs) and still ~28% maximum range (before skills)
- no heat
- the same 1 second "burn requirement"
- actual weapon spread, which is only negligible - if at all - up to about 80% of the optimal range
when trying to make your comparison against a large laser
Tywren, on 25 August 2023 - 04:22 AM, said:
And that's the real problem, not the specific mech boating the MGs, but the fact that boating MG's lets you out preform every other weapon in the game, because they have no cool down, and produce no heat. It's just continues, penalty free damage output
You are deliberately ignoring various aspects like range, ammo dependency, crits space requirements, "face-time"-requirments (thereby disallowing "torso-twisting" to spread damage, weapon spread and seem to be hung up on the "heat free" part.
Now I could see an argument being made that light machine guns might have a bit too high optimal range values but that's about it.
So no, waht you decribed there is not "the real problem" and what you're advocating for would actually harm the various light mechs (both IS and Clan) that have no other option than boating machine guns. Be it the LCT-1V, FLE-19, PIR-1 or one of the various others.
Tywren, on 25 August 2023 - 04:22 AM, said:
So we have a weapon of choice
Tywren, on 25 August 2023 - 04:22 AM, said:
I'll consider that, though I might jump over to something I'm better at to clear the free mech event, but primarily focusing on my cheetah might be fun. Or maybe just focusing on MG mechs in general, after all I picked up a Crale from the summer event, and haven't had a chance to break it in and skill it up yet.
Switching mechs - even if it's between different "machine gun boats" and more so when going for other mechs to get the free one - will skew the results. Using the CRD-CR is kind of "off limits" there becaus using that one would make it indistingishable wether it's the chassis that is problematic (which others suggested) or the weapon (as you claim).
With that in mind I'd propose strickter challage parameters:
- For the entirety of September you'll maximize light mech usage (preferably even beyond the 71% you did in May)
- You'll exclusively use your ECM equipped ACH-E (because that was your core claim about 6 mgs with ECM allowing you to do 6 kills 3 KMDD matches)
- You screenshot every end game screen for both personal and team results
Since uploading all those screenshots might not be feasible depending on how many matches you actually do in your Cheetah I'd like to see an (honest) statistic for the following values:
- Total games played with the ACH-E
- Number of matches where you scored 0 kills and 0 KMDD
- Number of matches where you scored 1 kill and 0 KMDD
- Number of matches where you scored 1 kill and any amount of KMDD
- Number of matches where you scored 2 kills and 0 KMDD
- Number of matches where you scored 2 kills and any amount of KMDD
- Number of matches where you scored 3 kills and 0 KMDD
- Number of matches where you scored 3 kills and any amount of KMDD
- Number of matches where you scored 4 kills and 0 KMDD
- Number of matches where you scored 4 kills and any amount of KMDD
- Number of matches where you scored 5 kills and 0 KMDD
- Number of matches where you scored 5 kills and any amount of KMDD
- Number of matches where you scored at least 6 kills and at least 3 KMDD
The other interesting data points will be availible in October via other means.
Tywren, on 25 August 2023 - 04:22 AM, said:
Oh, no doubt, like I said, I'm not that good, and I'm worse in lights. For me, a six kill game is the exception not the norm.
This is the reason why I suspect various (cognitive and not necessarily intentional) biases at play when you made your statements about the OP-ness of machine gun mechs.
Tywren, on 25 August 2023 - 04:22 AM, said:
I personally give myself a passing grade on a match if I get 2 kills before I die. And yet, even though I'm not good in light mechs, and a low tier player, it took me all of 5 round to knock the rust off, and put forth what I consider to be a passable performance in a match with 3 kills and 1 KMDD. So ask yourself, if it took someone as bad as me just 5 matches to reach a 3 and 1, how much could someone who's actually half way decant, who knows how to hit and run, and mastered circling, what could someone like that do with MGs?
Instead of asking myself such a useless question I'd point out that 5 games are
- Not enough data points to come to any form of valid conclusion => Still only anecdotal evcidence in its worst form
- 3 kills and 1 KMDD isn't anything extra ordinary. Do you live under the false impression that light mechs should not be able to do that while it's totally fine for all other weight classes?
- That number of kills and KMDD shows no direct correlation between machine guns being used and the result and certainly not a causation. It's quite possible that you simply played better and got a decent result after a relatively short period of getting re-aquainted with light mech game play
Side note: Since we're already talking anecdotal evidence let's have a look at what your asking me:
- The public records - at least for now - show that on paper I'm on average a better player than you are but far from a "top player".
- The public records also show that for quite some time now (close to 5 years) I'm almost exclusively piloting light mechs. What those record don't show: I'm also almost exclusively driving one particular mech: The LCT-1V. A mech that many consider sub-par for various reasons, including its heavy dependency on its 4 machine guns when not going for the LPL sniper squirrel game.
- Due to it's quirks the LCT-1V matches your 6 machine gun boating premise despite only having 4. Typically that's paired with a Light PPC or medium pulse laser that - despite the 50% cooldown bonus - simply cannot get me to what your Heavy Mediums can do and ofc. the LCT-1V lacks ECM entirely
So what are my experiences? Well, I do have more KMDD than actual kills quite regularly because that's the nature of mostly spraying damage around with mgs. 3 personal kills - while not necessarily "that often" - do occur reasonably often enough. I have seen 6 kils 3 KMDD games in that mech as well in games where everything aligned perfectly and the opponents didn't pay attention to the squirrel amongst them... just like I see sub 100 damage games with 0 kills 0 KMDD in 10 consecutive matches.
How does that fit in your narrative?
Edited by Der Geisterbaer, 25 August 2023 - 07:20 AM.
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