145 replies to this topic

[kalashnikity]

Nerfing clan heat sinks is the dumbest thing I have ever heard on here, and that is saying a lot.

Stop worshiping the ground Caldron walked on, if there is a problem it is due to their constant tinkering, role back the changes that got us here instead.

[LordNothing]

shields (many legendries actually) are definitely jumping the shark. games main problem is that its stale. there is constant unfunning, playstyles dropping left and right. player base seems fragmented into a number of different camps with their own narrative and rhetoric. even forumwarrior is getting old. we constantly regurgitate the same arguments over and over. the responses are so predictable its hardly worth posting at all.

were back to the core of the issue, the game is too stale, and the current run of gimmicks aren't working anymore. if the game ended tomorrow, i dont think id even care, even after all the funds i sunk into it. id just go see if anyone was on the mwll servers. i dont even think anyone is to blame either. we knew pgi was very limited in its funding and capabilities and we still tagged along. they still got a lot of hate for it. now that hate is unfairly directed at the cauldron, and they dont even get paid for their efforts. you can paint an old house but if the termites have eaten all the structural bits you are better off bulldozing it and starting over.

if you can find a way to de-stale the game in a real way, by all means. shields is not the way.

[ScrapIron Prime]

Widowmaker1981, on 08 November 2023 - 08:47 AM, said:

Not really. More like the old days when i just put seismic and rderp on everything and called it a day (i think i had like 50 of each, lol). Advanced zoom has always felt entirely unnecessary.

This is the reason I never take Advanced Zoom today. I learned to play without it, and to always always take Seismic Sensors.

[KursedVixen]

I'm really hoping they don't nerf clan heat sinks it's a horrible idea that will likely anger many many people. Clan weapons are very hot except gauss.

Edited by KursedVixen, 09 November 2023 - 07:57 PM.

[Moadebe]

kalashnikity, on 09 November 2023 - 05:58 PM, said:

Nerfing clan heat sinks is the dumbest thing I have ever heard on here, and that is saying a lot.

Stop worshiping the ground Caldron walked on, if there is a problem it is due to their constant tinkering, role back the changes that got us here instead.

No one said anything about worshiping. In case you DIDNT know....which you obviously don't....in a recent interview on NGNGtv with Bearclaw.....they are SERIOUSLY considering REMOVING heatsinks adding to the total heat limit on the clan side. Literally said they wanted it in in the Nov patch but because of COMP they wont until Dec.

Here....since I don't think you would go find it yourself. https://youtu.be/SEW...7x2nLNnneGS88Rc as to where they say it.....eh...somewhere in the 20-30 min mark...maybe....watch it yourself and see for yourself.

Edited by Moadebe, 09 November 2023 - 09:26 PM.

[Saved By The Bell]

We punished for our stupid decisions and bad play.

[KursedVixen]

Moadebe, on 09 November 2023 - 08:37 PM, said:

No one said anything about worshiping. In case you DIDNT know....which you obviously don't....in a recent interview on NGNGtv with Bearclaw.....they are SERIOUSLY considering REMOVING heatsinks adding to the total heat limit on the clan side. Literally said they wanted it in in the Nov patch but because of COMP they wont until Dec.

Here....since I don't think you would go find it yourself. https://youtu.be/SEW...7x2nLNnneGS88Rc as to where they say it.....eh...somewhere in the 20-30 min mark...maybe....watch it yourself and see for yourself.

that's a stupid idea

[Moadebe]

KursedVixen, on 09 November 2023 - 09:54 PM, said:

that's a stupid idea

And this is why people FEEL there is a bias.

I will admit...the main issue is hardpoint inflation. Being able to boat the amount of weapons we can is indeed a problem. This might be a way to help that.

HOWEVER....its going to hurt lights and meds the most in this....

just my 2 cents

Just gotta see how this plays out I guess....*shrug

[KursedVixen]

Moadebe, on 09 November 2023 - 09:58 PM, said:

And this is why people FEEL there is a bias.

I will admit...the main issue is hardpoint inflation. Being able to boat the amount of weapons we can is indeed a problem. This might be a way to help that.

HOWEVER....its going to hurt lights and meds the most in this....

just my 2 cents

Just gotta see how this plays out I guess....*shrug

I've seen inner sphere leaning bias since they introduced Clans.... just more proof to me PGI Doesn't understand actual 'balance' and just never should have introduced clans when they did, then again I probably wouldn't be playing if that were true but eh who cares.


They'd have to entirely half all clan weapon heat and increase Heat dissapation from clan heatsinks do some riduculous amount to compensate for that. AND ENTIERLY REMOVE GHOST HEAT FROM CLAN WEAPONS!

Edited by KursedVixen, 09 November 2023 - 10:51 PM.

[Curccu]

ScrapIron Prime, on 09 November 2023 - 07:21 PM, said:

This is the reason I never take Advanced Zoom today. I learned to play without it, and to always always take Seismic Sensors.

But it's just one node? Mandatory for me for every mech that can do meaningful damage to 1000m, so much easier to isolate specific location like CT from 1000m.

KursedVixen, on 09 November 2023 - 09:54 PM, said:

that's a stupid idea

No it's not, it will limit alpha size a bit.

KursedVixen, on 09 November 2023 - 10:03 PM, said:

I've seen inner sphere leaning bias since they introduced Clans.... just more proof to me PGI Doesn't understand actual 'balance' and just never should have introduced clans when they did, then again I probably wouldn't be playing if that were true but eh who cares.

Have you tried dropping in IS mech yet?

KursedVixen, on 09 November 2023 - 10:03 PM, said:

They'd have to entirely half all clan weapon heat and increase Heat dissapation from clan heatsinks do some riduculous amount to compensate for that. AND ENTIERLY REMOVE GHOST HEAT FROM CLAN WEAPONS!

HAHAHAHAHAHAHHHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHHAHAHAHHA ROLF LOL.

And now to the point...

Basic Timber-S with ECM and 2xLPL + 6xERML with 23 DHS. How many % of maximum heat treshold will smaller than currently is IF clan heatsinks wouldn't add heatcap? (lets not calculate skills into this because I have heard math is hard and kneejerk feelings are stronk.)
When you get that number or even close to it... compare it to your DEMAND of 50% less heat from clan weapons AND increase heat dissipation AND remove ghost heat.... You are totally insane. Builds like sr-6 would be so much fun and not totally OP at all right? or sr-6 pretty good builds with half heat and no ghost heat, not even including extra dissipation...

Edited by Curccu, 10 November 2023 - 01:10 AM.

[epikt]

KursedVixen, on 09 November 2023 - 10:03 PM, said:

They'd have to entirely half all clan weapon heat and increase Heat dissapation from clan heatsinks do some riduculous amount to compensate for that. AND ENTIERLY REMOVE GHOST HEAT FROM CLAN WEAPONS!

[Curccu]

Moadebe, on 09 November 2023 - 09:58 PM, said:

HOWEVER....its going to hurt lights and meds the most in this....

Specially lights and most meds do not have that many DHS to start with so they wouldn't lose many points of max heat threshold.
And this could be adjusted to with some mass quirk to all lights and meds to have 5-10% max heat threshold like this https://mwo.nav-alph.../mechlab/crb-27 already has.

[KursedVixen]

Curccu, on 10 November 2023 - 01:00 AM, said:

Have you tried dropping in IS mech yet?

have you tried clan mechs EVER? Have you ever faced a Xpulse huncback or blackjack with a clan assault like a dire or a warhawk???? Have you ever tried NOT to be in tier 1?

have you ever tried an adder prime stock build or the warhawk prime stock build?

have you ever compared firing 3 binary lasers to 3 clan heavy lasers?

are you seriously blind to how much DPS advantage IS has over clan despite having MORE armor than clan mechs thus lowering TTK on clan mechs vs IS mechs? Just about all Inner sphere weapons out DPS clan ones.

Edited by KursedVixen, 10 November 2023 - 01:21 AM.

[Moadebe]

Curccu, on 10 November 2023 - 01:07 AM, said:

Specially lights and most meds do not have that many DHS to start with so they wouldn't lose many points of max heat threshold.
And this could be adjusted to with some mass quirk to all lights and meds to have 5-10% max heat threshold like this https://mwo.nav-alph.../mechlab/crb-27 already has.

Well...That is IS for starters (the crab) but I do know where you are going with this.

Here is the rub. Omni mechs. Do you put those quirks on the set of 8 bonus? Or individual components.

Just pointing out that it is a concern.

As I said for something like this it is a wait and see scenario. It could turn out ok in the long run...or it could screw up more than just reducing alpha size.

[Moadebe]

KursedVixen, on 10 November 2023 - 01:15 AM, said:

have you tried clan mechs EVER? Have you ever faced a Xpulse huncback or blackjack with a clan assault like a dire or a warhawk???? Have you ever tried NOT to be in tier 1?

have you ever tried an adder prime stock build or the warhawk prime stock build?

have you ever compared firing 3 binary lasers to 3 clan heavy lasers?

are you seriously blind to how much DPS advantage IS has over clan despite having MORE armor than clan mechs thus lowering TTK on clan mechs vs IS mechs? Just about all Inner sphere weapons out DPS clan ones.

Comparing weapons across factions is not the best take and ill tell ya why.

IS and Clan have different "kits." The clan side has to account for omni mechs and the low critical slot space needed to customize them in MWO. Clans tend to be less armored overall and have a higher weapon capacity. "Usually."

If they had ZERO difference then whats the point for starters. Clans generally have the highest alphas. Which is why talk of nerfing the heatsinks is even happening.

Like I don't know what game you are playing, but objectively.....Clans have higher dps overall (sheer amount of weaponry and cooling available.) Weapon to weapon....IS probably has the advantage DPS wise....maybe....

[Curccu]

KursedVixen, on 10 November 2023 - 01:15 AM, said:

have you tried clan mechs EVER?

Yes I got mechs like Timberwolf with over million XP on it.
I'm pretty sure I have played OVER 50% clans.
I do not pick either side or fanboi any faction, I'm ex comp player and If I'm trying to win play what is the best and most of the times it has been clan stuff. I have also played few thousand Faction Play games on BOTH SIDES.

KursedVixen, on 10 November 2023 - 01:15 AM, said:

Have you ever faced a Xpulse huncback or blackjack with a clan assault like a dire or a warhawk????

Mmm yes? I don't get your point in this one? Don't stare DPS builds when your own weapons are on cooldown.

KursedVixen, on 10 November 2023 - 01:15 AM, said:

Have you ever tried NOT to be in tier 1?

Yes it was boring and not challenging so I quit my experiment very short. Sealclubbing wasn't fun.
https://leaderboard....h?u=Curccu+MKII
(I restricted myself to trial lights and at some point bought Urbanmech which isn't even now fully skilled.)

KursedVixen, on 10 November 2023 - 01:15 AM, said:

have you ever tried an adder prime stock build or the warhawk prime stock build?

Stock? No? Why would I play stock, that is just stupid unless you are doing some player run even like stock-Tuesday...
I have played a lot whk-prime like this though.

KursedVixen, on 10 November 2023 - 01:15 AM, said:

have you ever compared firing 3 binary lasers to 3 clan heavy lasers?

No? Why would I compare 27tons/12slots worth of weapons to 12tons/9slots of weapons?

KursedVixen, on 10 November 2023 - 01:15 AM, said:

are you seriously blind to how much DPS advantage IS has over clan despite having MORE armor than clan mechs thus lowering TTK on clan mechs vs IS mechs? Just about all Inner sphere weapons out DPS clan ones.

Are YOU seriously blind to any other value of anything than MAX DPS? Damage, Range, Damage/Ton&Slot, Sustained DPS, Weight, Size, Speed (Because everything is lighter so you can afford larger engine almost always vs IS).
Again I play both sides, more Clans right now because they are better than IS mechs.
Xpulses are bad weapons, RACs are bad weapons if you want to do good don't use those.

I played MWOWC2023 EXLUSIVELY with Clan mechs, do you know how many mechs with XPulses I encountered with those ~50-60 games played? ZERO. Why? Because they are garbage.

Moadebe, on 10 November 2023 - 01:42 AM, said:

Well...That is IS for starters (the crab) but I do know where you are going with this.

Here is the rub. Omni mechs. Do you put those quirks on the set of 8 bonus? Or individual components.

Just pointing out that it is a concern.

As I said for something like this it is a wait and see scenario. It could turn out ok in the long run...or it could screw up more than just reducing alpha size.

I would add it to CT of Omni mechs.
I really don't see it affecting much Timber I used as example earlier in this thread would lose 11% heat cap aka 6,5 max heat... that isn't much really.
But will see how it works out.

edit: Few typos.

Edited by Curccu, 10 November 2023 - 04:07 AM.

[cougurt]

KursedVixen, on 10 November 2023 - 01:15 AM, said:

have you ever tried an adder prime stock build or the warhawk prime stock build?

funny that you mention those two mechs specifically, because the stock loadouts on both are actually pretty close to optimal. you'd probably want to drop the tcomp and LRM10 on the warhawk for more heatsinks, but i reckon it would still work well enough in QP completely stock. the adder has never really been a great mech due to being slow and squishy with low arm mounts, but it can still perform in QP if you play it properly.

[Aidan Crenshaw]

KursedVixen, on 10 November 2023 - 01:15 AM, said:

have you tried clan mechs EVER? Have you ever faced a Xpulse huncback or blackjack with a clan assault like a dire or a warhawk???? Have you ever tried NOT to be in tier 1?

have you ever tried an adder prime stock build or the warhawk prime stock build?

have you ever compared firing 3 binary lasers to 3 clan heavy lasers?

are you seriously blind to how much DPS advantage IS has over clan despite having MORE armor than clan mechs thus lowering TTK on clan mechs vs IS mechs? Just about all Inner sphere weapons out DPS clan ones.

This kind of outlandish claims do feel weird to me.
Just compare two very similar builds with similar loadouts:
stk-7d 2x BLC, 6 ERML
mad-iic 2x HLL, 6 C-ERML
Both Chassis have a similar mobility with a slight advantage for the Marauder IIC in twist speed.
While the Stalker has a bit more maxDPS (14,2 vs 12,3) the Marauder IIC has higher actual DPS (6,4 vs 8,3) with the Marauder IIC being faster, can alpha more often and having a higher Alphastrike (66 vs 72)

sure doesn't seem like the clanner is underpowered...

[Curccu]

Aidan Crenshaw, on 10 November 2023 - 04:34 AM, said:

This kind of outlandish claims do feel weird to me.
Just compare two very similar builds with similar loadouts:
stk-7d 2x BLC, 6 ERML
mad-iic 2x HLL, 6 C-ERML
Both Chassis have a similar mobility with a slight advantage for the Marauder IIC in twist speed.
While the Stalker has a bit more maxDPS (14,2 vs 12,3) the Marauder IIC has higher actual DPS (6,4 vs 8,3) with the Marauder IIC being faster, can alpha more often and having a higher Alphastrike (66 vs 72)

sure doesn't seem like the clanner is underpowered...

There is also option to swap those HLL to LPL, remove one DHS and add Endo-Steel.
Alpha is reduced by 10 but burn duration is reduced by 0,4 second
MAX DPS increases, Sustained DPS increases, range increases.

[Besh]

Gameplay is not stale because of any Meta, or balance, but due to player behaviour .

For whatever reasons, a majority of people playing MW:O never realized what the Game offers . Years ago already, in t5 to around t3, t2, there always was a large percentage kindof playing it like any generic FPS shooter . MW:O supplies the tools for it, and in QP these days in t4, t5, you still see that, a lot . Nvmnd MW:O actually allows teamwork to the extreme, stuff like flanking, covering advances, overlapping fields of fire, also concerted movement around corners etc., all that nifty stuff . But that mostly does not happen in QP .

Snipers set up on their position, stay totally oblivious to the movmement of the fight below them, suddenly find there are no Targets in sight for them but still dont shift position.
Fast movers who could actually harass Snipers decide to rather duke it out with the Fatboys whom they hope to catch off Guard and backstab, totally oblivious to their team around and behind them being pummeled by ranged weaponry .
And then theres a neverending supply of players who geneally prefer to play "Standing around online", totally happy with staring at Walls not shooting anything, waiting for the opFor to stumble into their sights .
Generally, a good portion of the 11 people you are stuck with in the Match are more concerned about their pesonal score/stats than anything that happens to their Team .

From what I experienced over the years, no amount of balance passes, MapChanges/new Maps, whatever, did change any of that in QP in tiers I mostly played - t3 to t5 .

More people need to read Void Angel's "Timidity is not a tactic" . And more people need to have an actual Chance to learn what the Game offers . But thats not happening .

TTK has left the building a few years ago it seems . But even while it still was a topic, I was always puzzled as to why discussion has most always been "nerf this weapon, buff that one, and btw do away with the quirks", while it is pretty obvious that MW:O is brutally punishing . And moreso for new people . You go into QP as relatively new player and so much as poke your nose out, you are likely to get pinged by ranged, and next thing you know, some very experienced fast mover kills you before you even see them .

So erhm . For the majority of players, nothing will change much, no matter how many very nifty changes are done to whatever equipment . The majority of people does very few very specific things every single QPGame - depending om Mech/loadout ofc. - and will not change that because they know if it comes to it, they will die really, really fast . So they either dont move - or very little - they prefer cover over shooting, they use paintweaponry, or yolo fast moving hitbox jittering Mechs to be able to dish out dmg hoping Opfors aim is bad . Etc .

Edited by Besh, 10 November 2023 - 08:52 AM.