99 replies to this topic

[Sneaky Snek]

Lately with increasing que times and very snowbally matches it feels like the quick play experience could benefit from having team sizes dropped down to 8 vs 8. This could bring about faster que times for everyone since teams would be easier to put together and matches would most likely finish faster.

Players will be able to feel like they have more impact on the outcome of a match and TTK could also reduce from this as well since people caught out in a bad spot would get focus fired by less mechs.

Obviously group sizes would most likely need to be tweaked down to probably groups of 2 but I believe a change like this would be more healthy for the playerbase.

What do you guys think?

[Weeny Machine]

Make it 8vs8 and stuff the groups primarily into that mode while making 12vs12 primarily PUG mode. If 8vs8 is not available, then put them into 12vs12 queue. That would be really great and no problem because groups are sooo keen on fighting other groups *wink,wink,wink*. So, my proposal should get a lot of support from group players!

Edited by Weeny Machine, 13 November 2023 - 01:36 PM.

[pbiggz]

Weeny Machine, on 13 November 2023 - 01:36 PM, said:

Make it 8vs8 and stuff the groups primarily into that mode while making 12vs12 primarily PUG mode. If 8vs8 is not available, then put them into 12vs12 queue.

At best that would dramatically increase wait times.

Weeny Machine, on 13 November 2023 - 01:36 PM, said:

That would be really great and no problem because groups are sooo keen on fighting other groups *wink,wink,wink*. So, my proposal should get a lot of support from group players!

You must be fun at parties.

[Weeny Machine]

pbiggz, on 13 November 2023 - 01:48 PM, said:

At best that would dramatically increase wait times.

Nope, not with some proper valves

pbiggz, on 13 November 2023 - 01:48 PM, said:

You must be fun at parties.

I just love to use sarcasm when some people clearly have double standards

[solarmus]

When they did 8 vs 8 to test for EQ, it was horrible, full stop. 9 of 10 games were a miserable experience and the impact of small mistakes made voice more toxic. (Never mind that a DC or two basically was an instant loss.)

Queue times also did not markedly improve (at least for myself, others might have had a different experience). I don't think the loss of quality is worth it.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

+1

[Bud Crue]

solarmus, on 13 November 2023 - 03:21 PM, said:

When they did 8 vs 8 to test for EQ, it was horrible, full stop. 9 of 10 games were a miserable experience and the impact of small mistakes made voice more toxic. (Never mind that a DC or two basically was an instant loss.)

Queue times also did not markedly improve (at least for myself, others might have had a different experience). I don't think the loss of quality is worth it.

I recall exactly the opposite experience. 8v8 GQ, despite its very short life, was a blast. Queue times were mostly short (no worse than most soup queue wait times these days, during NA prime time). While there were certainly stomps there were also plenty of nail biter matches.

Thet should have given us what group players originally wanted: 8v8 GQ with solo player opt in. Put that up against a strict 12v12 SQ for a month and I bet the GQ would have on average quicker and better matches.

---
Edit: So as to not derail this, I also agree with the OP that dropping soup queue to 8v8 with reduced group sizes is probably in order. Some nights the waits between matches is extreme.

Edited by Bud Crue, 13 November 2023 - 04:01 PM.

[and zero]

Just returned to the game after 6 years away. Playing 12v12 quick play and then immediately after playing 6v6 or 8v8 for the mechvember event really highlighted the difference to me.

I’d love to be able to play 6v6 or 8v8 all the time.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

and zero, on 13 November 2023 - 05:12 PM, said:

I’d love to be able to play 6v6 or 8v8 all the time.

6v6 is also fun, but I think less so for conquest and more for domination. I'd honestly be okay with skirmish and assault being completely dropped at this point.

[feeWAIVER]

Would be cool if it was dynamic and/or semi-random.

[Besh]

Sneaky Snek, on 13 November 2023 - 01:30 PM, said:

Lately with increasing que times and very snowbally matches it feels like the quick play experience could benefit from having team sizes dropped down to 8 vs 8. This could bring about faster que times for everyone since teams would be easier to put together and matches would most likely finish faster.

Players will be able to feel like they have more impact on the outcome of a match and TTK could also reduce from this as well since people caught out in a bad spot would get focus fired by less mechs.

Obviously group sizes would most likely need to be tweaked down to probably groups of 2 but I believe a change like this would be more healthy for the playerbase.

What do you guys think?

8v8 IS an interesting Idea . It was awesome on the 4 ( iirc) intial Maps just as 12v12 on them was/is bad . As a mode, it likley would fill up games faster provided nothing else changed much, but would do nothing much to alleviate Stomps .

If you would do something like "fill 8v8 with [any] groups queued, and put Solos into QP Matches", it could be good for Gameplay, but I guess thats too many conditions to have the desired effect on waittime .

Plus people would start complaining, as it wouldnt be so easy to stomp mosly unorganized, not communicating QP Teams anymore .

edit: just noticed weeny machine posted almost the exact same thing above, I didnt read the entire thread before posting . Sry .

Edited by Besh, 17 November 2023 - 02:03 AM.

[RockmachinE]

We've tried it a while ago it didn't work for several reasons. Even though some liked it, the agreement was 12v12 is objectively more fun.

[Besh]

RockmachinE, on 14 November 2023 - 05:52 AM, said:

We've tried it a while ago it didn't work for several reasons. Even though some liked it, the agreement was 12v12 is objectively more fun.

Can't see how 12v12 can be "objectively" more fun .

Could it be people disliked 8v8 because of MapSize/Layouts ? Or because of the lopsidedness that I'd think can occur with 'Mechs/Loadouts as well as skills between the teams ? What I am getting at is, has it been examined why people didnt like it, or was the conclusion made after enough people said "Nah, no fun !".

Maybe with a bit of musing about it, an 8v8 iteration can be thought up that is fun to play, and has people wanting to play it . For instance

- ONLY groups ( of varying sizes )
- select Mappool ( giving people at least some general bracket as to 'Mech/Loadout )
- or maybe even go so far as to allow 15, 20 secs ( to avoid MechLab stalling ) of quickselecting a diff. Mech after Map select ;
- require people to bring a dropdeck since only max [insert number] of each weightclass are allowed per Team;


That kind of stuff . Basically, drum up an 8v8 mode that is interesting to people and very noticeably different to 12v12 QP where you get dropped in with randoms, on a somewhat random Map etc .

*dayum* Forgot, I am guessing some of what I suggested above would require devtime XD . Speaking of that : how much would it cost to examine the options ?

Edited by Besh, 14 November 2023 - 06:16 AM.

[Besh]

pbiggz, on 13 November 2023 - 01:48 PM, said:

At best that would dramatically increase wait times.

Cant say without looking at actual data . What if a major contributor to waittimes is having to fit groups and solos into Matches simultaneously somewhat taking tonnage or whatever into account?

[Battlemaster56]

Yea please I would 8v8 to come back, I really missed making daring maneuvers to catch the enemy team off guard with heavies and assaults, plus it be good chance to have battles on more sides on maps besides the center.

[pbiggz]

Weeny Machine, on 13 November 2023 - 02:13 PM, said:

Nope, not with some proper valves

You have no more proof of that than I do. I do however, have some training in this, and can tell you that you can't just say *release valves* and expect it to magically fix all the problems. Matchmakers are complicated and making them more complicated is a risk.

Besh, on 14 November 2023 - 06:27 AM, said:

Cant say without looking at actual data . What if a major contributor to waittimes is having to fit groups and solos into Matches simultaneously somewhat taking tonnage or whatever into account?

Given how stringent the group restrictions are, it seems more likely the opposite is true. Groups have to wait a long time to fit solos into matches.

Regardless, 8v8 always suited this game better than 12v12 did.

Edited by pbiggz, 14 November 2023 - 04:58 PM.

[Besh]

pbiggz, on 14 November 2023 - 04:57 PM, said:

You have no more proof of that than I do. I do however, have some training in this, and can tell you that you can't just say *release valves* and expect it to magically fix all the problems. Matchmakers are complicated and making them more complicated is a risk.



Given how stringent the group restrictions are, it seems more likely the opposite is true. Groups have to wait a long time to fit solos into matches.

Regardless, 8v8 always suited this game better than 12v12 did.

To stay honest, *release valves" wasn't said in the comment you replied to .

8v8 quickly started to suffer from Units syncdropping 4men Groups . While it could turn it pretty funny getting matched against your own Unit, being on the receiving end of "8 randos vs 8coordinated, working together players" was not funny .

I am honestly thinking 12v12 has a better chance of somewhat mitigating disbalances between the Teams than 8v8 .

Edited by Besh, 14 November 2023 - 07:04 PM.

[Mochyn Pupur]

Bud Crue, on 13 November 2023 - 03:51 PM, said:

I recall exactly the opposite experience. 8v8 GQ, despite its very short life, was a blast. Queue times were mostly short (no worse than most soup queue wait times these days, during NA prime time). While there were certainly stomps there were also plenty of nail biter matches. Thet should have given us what group players originally wanted: 8v8 GQ with solo player opt in. Put that up against a strict 12v12 SQ for a month and I bet the GQ would have on average quicker and better matches. --- Edit: So as to not derail this, I also agree with the OP that dropping soup queue to 8v8 with reduced group sizes is probably in order. Some nights the waits between matches is extreme.

It only reduced waiting times for those wanting to play 8 v 8. Many folk didn't bother logging in during the trials (11 from the remaining 42 friends, as an indicator, that I used to routinely play with that are left, or they moved to CW/FP for a change).

8 v 8 fails miserably as a mode, too easy to have a landslide win/loss by losing 2 mechs and many of the maps just don't work well with fewer numbers as has been previously pointed out. 8 v 8 would be the death knell of the game at this juncture with the smaller population not its revival.

[Jon Gotham]

Might then need to limit what people play. Each person means more when there are less sets of guns in the game.
My lkrm locust can do decent damage in a 12v12...but wouldn't be so keen to play any light in 8v8 or less.
One assault with giga alpha later.....
Plus, punishing people that make friends and group up again?

[Quicksilver Aberration]

What, lights are better the fewer people are on the map, less chances of getting cornered and less guns to cover approaches