99 replies to this topic

[Jon Gotham]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 15 November 2023 - 02:28 PM, said:

What, lights are better the fewer people are on the map, less chances of getting cornered and less guns to cover approaches

I've been oneshotted at 600m+ on the move at 148 before....a player with huge alpha is going to be even more dangerous the fewer targets.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Jon Gotham, on 15 November 2023 - 05:08 PM, said:

I've been oneshotted at 600m+ on the move at 148 before....a player with huge alpha is going to be even more dangerous the fewer targets.

Maybe if the entire team is 20 tonners with XLs? I don't expect the weight distribution of teams to change much. Maybe it will stop the 20 tonners from being so heavily played of any weight for lights though.

[Necroconvict]

8v8 the way it should be, the way it used to be, the way my parents did it.

[Jon Gotham]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 15 November 2023 - 06:03 PM, said:

Maybe if the entire team is 20 tonners with XLs? I don't expect the weight distribution of teams to change much. Maybe it will stop the 20 tonners from being so heavily played of any weight for lights though.

I'm sure a slant towards heavy alphaboats will make it so much better.

[pbiggz]

Besh, on 14 November 2023 - 07:03 PM, said:

To stay honest, *release valves" wasn't said in the comment you replied to .

8v8 quickly started to suffer from Units syncdropping 4men Groups . While it could turn it pretty funny getting matched against your own Unit, being on the receiving end of "8 randos vs 8coordinated, working together players" was not funny .

I am honestly thinking 12v12 has a better chance of somewhat mitigating disbalances between the Teams than 8v8 .

Were there group limits back then? I can't remember now, but my gut says they came later. With PSR and group limits (as in only one group per team, or something along those lines) sync dropping shouldn't really be doable, but, we dont know how the matchmaker works in detail, so I can't say that conclusively.

Jon Gotham, on 15 November 2023 - 10:41 AM, said:

Might then need to limit what people play. Each person means more when there are less sets of guns in the game.
My lkrm locust can do decent damage in a 12v12...but wouldn't be so keen to play any light in 8v8 or less.
One assault with giga alpha later.....
Plus, punishing people that make friends and group up again?

TTK actually gets longer in 8v8 because you take less fire.

[Besh]

pbiggz, on 15 November 2023 - 08:55 PM, said:

Were there group limits back then? I can't remember now, but my gut says they came later. With PSR and group limits (as in only one group per team, or something along those lines) sync dropping shouldn't really be doable, but, we dont know how the matchmaker works in detail, so I can't say that conclusively.

I dont recall exactly tbh, though I am sure there have been . Limits atmo are 4men max and tonnage, right ? PSR does not mean much, I get dropped into matches against t1 groups as t5 Solo every day . Why dont we know how MM works ? Is it simply not understandeable these days, or are we not told ?

Quote

TTK actually gets longer in 8v8 because you take less fire.

That...very much depends .

Edited by Besh, 16 November 2023 - 03:58 AM.

[Widowmaker1981]

Weeny Machine, on 13 November 2023 - 01:36 PM, said:

Make it 8vs8 and stuff the groups primarily into that mode while making 12vs12 primarily PUG mode. If 8vs8 is not available, then put them into 12vs12 queue. That would be really great and no problem because groups are sooo keen on fighting other groups *wink,wink,wink*. So, my proposal should get a lot of support from group players!

Yeah im fine with it.

I think you might be confused, though. My experience is that unit / grouping players just want to play with their buddies. No one is trying to avoid fighting other groups or anything of the sort, at least not in QP. (i havent played FP in years so no idea on that front)

[Weeny Machine]

Necroconvict, on 15 November 2023 - 08:10 PM, said:

8v8 the way it should be, the way it used to be, the way my parents did it.

So, you were conceived in a 8 vs 8 ummm "engagement" or how should we understand your comment?

Edited by Weeny Machine, 16 November 2023 - 07:36 AM.

[Asylum Choir]

pbiggz, on 15 November 2023 - 08:55 PM, said:

TTK actually gets longer in 8v8 because you take less fire.

Not been my experience at all. Less extra guns aiming at you means more focused attention on target. The less sets of guns the better it is for slower mechs, with more armour and enough firepower to near delete or to oneshot smaller mechs.

[feeWAIVER]

I've played a 20ton mech in 8v8 and it's fine.

[Weeny Machine]

8 vs 8... who would play the lower weight classes?

[epikt]

Weeny Machine, on 16 November 2023 - 08:42 AM, said:

8 vs 8... who would play the lower weight classes?

Those like me who enjoy light mechs and already play them in 12v12.

[SolCrusher]

this would be great. 8v8 when mech were real mechs

[Asylum Choir]

Thing is, the less people in the match the more each person matters.
It's already awful when one third of your team in a 12 man match are bad and underperform.
Plus, when you do run into those great players....

[Tarl Cabot]

Weeny Machine, on 16 November 2023 - 08:42 AM, said:

8 vs 8... who would play the lower weight classes?

8vs8, 10vs10, 12vs12. PGI should reduce the team size to max 3-man and 1 mech/class then the teams themselves have matching weight classes, doing away with the "tonnage" min/max, opening up those valves. Technically, they should have the ability to set that up with the events and have it run for a week for three weeks. And since it is not just Innersphere but Innersphere and Clans, run the gambit also on team size, 12vs12, 10vs10 then 8vs8 (2-man max).

Edit but when it was 8vs8, originally then during the "events" I did not really like it. But then the original 8vs8 was strictly 2-2-2-2, with just IS mechs and without most of the equipment available today, and Assaults usually determined who won/lost, depending on how they were equipped and played. During that time, once they were introduced, I loved me Highlanders, and that was without quirks. Didnt get to drop much when the events were running 8vs8, some with their screwed up effects

Edited by Tarl Cabot, 17 November 2023 - 06:22 PM.

[Weeny Machine]

I say it again: remove premades from QP and let them fight their 8 vs 8 and of course puggers who want to do it. If there are no games put them into QP queue. Win-win

As for the event 8 vs 8 - I tried a few matches, it was a horrible experience. If that was to be implemented over 12 drop, then I most likely wouldn't lock in anymore because 1 premade in one team was super fast roll and sometimes it was 0 premades vs 2xpremade.

Another issue was that a lot of maps don't work for 8 vs 8 imo, they feel too "empty"

[pbiggz]

Weeny Machine, on 17 November 2023 - 06:37 AM, said:

I say it again: remove premades from QP and let them fight their 8 vs 8 and of course puggers who want to do it. If there are no games put them into QP queue. Win-win

As for the event 8 vs 8 - I tried a few matches, it was a horrible experience. If that was to be implemented over 12 drop, then I most likely wouldn't lock in anymore because 1 premade in one team was super fast roll and sometimes it was 0 premades vs 2xpremade.

Another issue was that a lot of maps don't work for 8 vs 8 imo, they feel too "empty"

Your experience isn't bad because of premades, and agitating for their removal in an effort to curate your own competition is neither a reasonable thing to expect, nor will it lead to you winning more. You'll just move on to the next boogeyman.

We have done this song and dance before, it just led to shouting matches, and then PGI did what they had to do to keep the game alive anyway.

Edited by pbiggz, 22 November 2023 - 03:46 PM.

[HauptmanT]

No.

Please god no.

If you think queue times are going to get better, you are mistaken. Even if they became slightly shorter, the games will be even shorter than that, and you'll spend even more time in queue.

Also, you wont have enough mechdads running off on their own giving you content that I enjoy so much.

[pbiggz]

HauptmanT, on 22 November 2023 - 04:05 PM, said:

No.

Please god no.

If you think queue times are going to get better, you are mistaken. Even if they became slightly shorter, the games will be even shorter than that, and you'll spend even more time in queue.

Also, you wont have enough mechdads running off on their own giving you content that I enjoy so much.

You're allowed to not like the idea, but dont make things up. You have no way of proving anything about queue times, and judging by the age of your account, you were never around when we HAD 8v8. I was.

[HauptmanT]

pbiggz, on 22 November 2023 - 04:18 PM, said:

You're allowed to not like the idea, but dont make things up. You have no way of proving anything about queue times, and judging by the age of your account, you were never around when we HAD 8v8. I was.

I'm not making anything up, this isnt the only game in the world you know. There are hundreds of other battle royal games out there, ranging from 2v2 to 100v100.

And you are correct, I started MWO late, so missed the 8v8, because I was playing those other games.

If you want to lower queue times, you make the games bigger and longer. Even if it takes 3 minutes longer to get a game, if that game then lasts half an hour, you have succesfully shortened time spent in Queue.

Ive had 5 minute queue times for a 5 minute game multiple times in a row here in MWO. That is horrendous. But shortening game time isnt the answer. We should be looking to lengthen game time. Maybe use the faction play mechanics for quick play. Maybe not 4 mechs, but at least 2, preferably 3.

Better yet, follow the War Thunder model of spawn points and nearly unlimited spawns. That game can start as a 8v10, and slowly add other players as they queue until it's a 25v30 or even more. And even if one side has fewer players, they can still win the match just by having more potatoes to shoot at and earn spawn points. But I'm sure all that would need to have been built into the game when it was made, not just added ad hoc after the fact.

Even with War Thunder's massive population, it can still take 10 minutes to get into a game, but nobody whines about it, because those games can last an hour. Their biggest complaint is the payout after match... as you can spend an hour in a game and LOSE silver lions (c-bills), but that's got nothing to do with us, since repairs are free here.

Edited by HauptmanT, 23 November 2023 - 03:31 PM.