66 replies to this topic

[Meep Meep]

So the mech that is the iconic lurm ****** is meh but the variants are decent to good. Thats more a factor of current balance than anything else. Well cauldron is looking into ecm and derp to maybe allow lock ons to be somewhat effective so we will see in the future.

[JediPanther]

If lrms could go their 1k normal range up to 2k and go over 200m/s I might go eh bigger Catapult after gym. But then my Stalker with lrm 100 would divorce me. Still its fun to see a mech lose 10-15 armor in a salvo and relax in that flood of tears that lrm are so op.

[HauptmanT]

ScrapIron Prime, on 22 November 2023 - 01:50 PM, said:

They're all rockets. Streaks and LRMs are fancy rockets. Thunderbolts... now THOSE are missiles.

Has nothing to do with size. It's based on guidance... for real.

the Tiny Tim is a massive unguided rocket.
the Sparrow is a small guided missile.

[VeeOt Dragon]

after taking a look at the various variants i have to say that t the Longbows seemed massively under quirked. especially for the missile variants. as the game currently sits as much as i love the Chassis in a Lore context i don't think it is even worth the C-bill price (once they are available for C-bills that is) let alone dropping real money one them. as far as an LRM platform for any mech to be viable for them in today's balance it needs heavy Quirks especially in the spread and Velocity categories, range is nice but the other two are much more important given that they are almost useless over 500m. honestly they need bigger and more Quirks. the sensor range the 10C gets should be given to all of them accept the maybe 10K (since it is geared around UAC/20s) or 7V (also looks like it would more suited for close to mid range with MRMs instead of the stock LRMs) and the 10C should also get the same Target Decay Quirk that the 12C gets (again the 7V seems more suited towards MRMs to me than LRMs so Target Decay isn't really an issue). hell there are 2 variants that don't get any offensive Quirks at all (12R(S) and the OC hero). (also an ammo quirk would be nivce on the missile variants as well but honestly there is enough tonnage you should be able to carry enough)

given the geometry of the mech even the serviceability quirks are a bit meh. from what i can see from the images it has the bulk of a 100 ton mech but is only 85 so it is a big wide target with easy to peal off arms.

as far as looks go the mech looks great even the non-missile Variants as they left the big barrel arms and made it look simply like they removed the missile box guts and doors then just slapped in whatever else in the big hollow hole. (though if they were factory variants as they are supposed to be and not field refits one would think that they would make differing arm pods for those weapons.)

as far as the Hardpoint bloat that has been so common lately yeah there is a bit of that with the Longbows but not as bad as some other new Assaults, being only 85 tons and an IS mech that alone will limit what you can do with those hardpoints (its Clan mechs that are honestly the worst offenders when if comes to hardpoint bloat given their smaller lighter equipment)

long story short the mech looks great (thats one thing i can give PGI is that most of the mechs they put out look good even if they do all look like hey all came from the same 2 manufacturers) but i don't see it being all that viable in the current meta. honestly just overall disappointed in the Longbow, though i wouldn't mind seeing a free one given out for the X-mas event.

Edited by VeeOt Dragon, 22 November 2023 - 05:14 PM.

[The6thMessenger]

It's an 85-tonner, so it seems to me it's just a Stalker with worse hitboxes if it's used as a missile platform.

[kalashnikity]

As much complaining as I have done, I really hate to admit that I have finally found at least one successful LRM build (in an Archer, no I am not disclosing the exact build, but I will say I had to bring my own tag and NARC, and may or may not add at least one LPPC eventually, maybe),

I know of no LRM builds that work in an assault chassis though, as mobility seems to be a lynch pin.

I figure it is slightly possible the Longbow will function as a LRM chassis, time will tell.

[Dr Cara Carcass]

Vonbach, on 22 November 2023 - 08:43 AM, said:

No they are supposed to be a counter to them thats the point. LRMs are long range suppression weapons. As it is they are simply useless.

They shouldnt.
They suppress movement from those who are close enough to start the last sprint towards you.
At about 400m they are most effective because ducking into cover becomes hard, and a lot of weapons cant fire back.

[foamyesque]

martian, on 21 November 2023 - 09:33 PM, said:

So everything except LRMs that this 'Mech is supposed to carry as its primary loadout?

Yep. I occasionally play LRMs on C-bill machines but only a fool or a madman would pay actual money to use the most frustrating weapon system in the game.

[HauptmanT]

kalashnikity, on 22 November 2023 - 08:53 PM, said:

As much complaining as I have done, I really hate to admit that I have finally found at least one successful LRM build (in an Archer, no I am not disclosing the exact build, but I will say I had to bring my own tag and NARC, and may or may not add at least one LPPC eventually, maybe),

I know of no LRM builds that work in an assault chassis though, as mobility seems to be a lynch pin.

I figure it is slightly possible the Longbow will function as a LRM chassis, time will tell.

I used to absolutely wreck in my LRM 60 Scortch. Was 3rd place on the chassis when they released them, back when they scored the owners of new mech packs for extra gimmedats. Of course that was a while ago, before a few nerfs and a lot of ECM mechs. Havent played it in a bit, but I'm sure I would still do well with it.

https://i.imgur.com/f3YUqSX.jpg
----
https://i.imgur.com/F7oMgbe.jpg

Edited by HauptmanT, 24 November 2023 - 02:50 AM.

[martian]

HauptmanT, on 24 November 2023 - 02:28 AM, said:

https://i.imgur.com/F7oMgbe.jpg

Unfortunately, this map is not available anymore.

[Blood Rose]

HauptmanT, on 22 November 2023 - 01:15 PM, said:

Going to play devils advocate here and say MRMs and SRMs are what they did wrong in MWO.

A missile is guided. Unguided, they are called rockets. So just by the name, SRM and MRM should be lock on weapons.

Yes and no. MRM's are done correctly, lore wise they are mass unguided missiles that are thrown in a vast cloud in a "quantity = quality" theory. They were intended to be used by militias and unskilled pilots but ended up on a lot of frontline units due to the sheer damage potential.
SRM's should be guided. The missiles should have a simple fire and forget system that does not guarantee a hit but does mean the missile will change course to try and hit its target, whereas Streaks should make sharper turns and actually try to chase the target down. There are unguided SRM's in the lore, they are harder to use but mount 50% more explosive - 3 damage apiece instead of 2.
[edit]
All this does not detract from the fact that LRM's, and lock on missiles in general, are rather useless these days. Lockon times are insane, and instantly reset if your reticule strays from the 3 pixels in the centre of the targets box. The missiles fly in a broad pattern and spread damage across the target. They also lack range - LRM's should go out to 1000 metres, not 900 - and at least have some form of independent tracking instead of having to be held on target. By the time you have your lock the sniper has finished his volley of blue beams then stepped back into cover whereupon the lock vanishes half a second later leaving you to waste missiles.
But of course, the metachasers are in charge now, and so you WILL play a sniper build or enjoy spending most of your game being ineffectual. You WILL NOT play a missile boat, of you WILL be punished for it.

Edited by Blood Rose, 24 November 2023 - 05:44 AM.

[Novakaine]

Well I'm happy lore-wise at least.

[martian]

Novakaine, on 24 November 2023 - 07:37 AM, said:

Well I'm happy lore-wise at least.

And game-wise (regarding the Longbow)?

[An6ryMan69]

I'm surprised to really see any Longbows around actually.

$70 USD for a chassis everybody knows is crippled by its main weapon system being so beat down in MWO is crazy.

I think this was a chance for LRM using players to vote with their wallets and take a global hard pass until something significant is done to improve LRM's.....apparently not though.

[Heavy Money]

Very odd to see so many ppl saying its bad for LRMs. They are comparable to existing IS LRM assaults (the FNR-5E and NSR-WP) but at lower tonnage. They may look like a stalker at first glance, but their quirks are superior for LRMs.

There are 3 LRM variants, and they were each quirked in ways to keep them different from each other. Each should also be viable with MRMs or mixed snubs+mrms or srms. Having these 3 very similar variants not be redundant with each other is tough. But the current quirk approach seems to have achieved that.

For reference, relevant missile quirks from other LRM mechs:

FNR-5E: -10% heat, +10% range, +10% velo. No TAG
NSR-WP: -15% heat, -5% spread, +10% velo, can't XL with LRM80

STK-5M : -10% CD, +10% range, -10% spread
STK-3F: -10% CD
STK-3H: -10% CD, -20% LRM20 heat (-10% missile, -10% LRM)
STK-5S: -10% heat

LGB-10C: -10% heat, -10% spread, +15% velo, +18.75% Sensor Range
LGB-12C: -10% heat, +15% range, +1 Target Decay Duration
LGB-12R: No missile quirks, but has Jumpjets with -25% heat, and 2M in the right torso. If not running LRM 80, can dump out an arm to save weight.

The Stalkers have always been capable of LRM80, but their quirks have always meant they weren't worth running LRMs on. The FNR and NSR are good LRM boats, but the Longbow 10C and 12C are competing with them at lower tonnage, while staying slightly different from each other. They can run LRM80 comfortably with sufficient ammo, TAg, and BAP. Or even LRM90 if you go XL and make some cuts.

The 12R is a whole new thing since it can run JJs and poptart LRMs, which nothing else is doing. I'm not sure that'll be good enough to be worthwhile, but its certainly novel.

The Longbow is also significantly less clunky than the FNR or NSR. And has spare M hardpoints to bring its own NARC.

Now, this isn't to say that LRMs themselves are in a good spot. Slow LRM boating in QP is always a gamble. But the Longbow is certainly well considered compared to existing IS LRM assaults.

EDIT: Should note that the Cauldron has leaked that they are giving the 12C 20% missile velo and the 12R -15% spread in Dec. So its going to be even further ahead of the other LRM boat options. And there's ongoing discussion of making it so radar deprivation can't completely cancel out target decay, which will help LRMs in general.

foamyesque, on 23 November 2023 - 12:06 PM, said:

Yep. I occasionally play LRMs on C-bill machines but only a fool or a madman would pay actual money to use the most frustrating weapon system in the game.

**laughs madly**

Edited by Heavy Money, 24 November 2023 - 02:02 PM.

[VeeOt Dragon]

yeah i was pleased to see the leak that the Longbow is getting some extra quirks in the next patch. still we wouldn't need the extra Velocity or Spread quirks if they hadn't nerfed LRM to the speed of a Toddler tossing a ball and the spread of a Claymore mine. honestly the lack luster view on the Longbow is more a symptom of this than it is shade on the mech itself.

don't get me wrong i will get one but not for real cash, i'll wait till they are out for C-bills (that is if i still play MWO at the point, i honestly barely play the game anymore. i want to but its just not as fun as it once was for me)

[ScrapIron Prime]

Heavy Money, on 24 November 2023 - 01:25 PM, said:

For reference, relevant missile quirks from other LRM mechs:

To be honest, though, the most effective LRM mechs right now are not the ones with massive hardpoints, they’re the ones with 25% velocity quirks or more. The best IS LRM mech right now is the Warhammer 7S because LRMs are the only weapon in MWO to fire at subsonic speeds.

[nitra]

what i like about the long bow, is when your behind one ... the entire game is blocked by it profile.
maybe the solution to people standing behind you as they cant see crap. thus allowing you to peek and poke freely . ]

[foamyesque]

Heavy Money, on 24 November 2023 - 01:25 PM, said:

Very odd to see so many ppl saying its bad for LRMs.

It isn't that it's bad for LRMs, it's that LRMs, as a whole, are in an awful place. You may as well run MRMs, or just not use missiles entirely.

Even the proposed changes for December are mostly buffing specifically LRM5s, which... I mean okay but it'd be nice if mechs that didn't have inflated numbers of hardpoints could actually do something, too.

[w0qj]

If this Dec'2023 Patch 'preview' is anything to go by, MWO is dipping its toes into helping LRM/ATM weapons, by a fairly major nerfing of the ECM bubble protection area by -55% (nerfing from 120m down to 90m).

In short, ECM is much more of a personal mech protection equipment, and much less of a 'protect your teammate' one.

ie: Less interference on LRM lockons going forward.

Edited by w0qj, 26 November 2023 - 07:28 AM.