106 replies to this topic

[foamyesque]

The6thMessenger, on 23 November 2023 - 07:21 PM, said:

I was always been a proponent to the Zero-Spread HAGs from the start, because the Volley Duration ultimately screws the weapon over already, as movement and torso-twisting can and often prevent effective landing of shots. Imagine a fixed spread on top of that, lol.

I use MRMs from time to time, buddy

[Quicksilver Aberration]

KursedVixen, on 23 November 2023 - 09:26 PM, said:

They were never suppose to be they're suppose to be like gauss LBX I don't think the heat nerf was correct i think the spread should have been upped.

Who cares what they are "supposed" to be (though I'd argue they aren't like LBX because they do not behave like silver bullet gauss but who cares). Spread just pushes them more into mid-range which was where they were already problematic. If you make them short range weapons then what's the point of the UAC20? At that point you are sort of left with long range or clipping the damage through the artificial splash mechanic of cERPPCs to somewhat mitigate the single component potency at mid-range.

[MOPCKOE]

"We know better". "You can't understand how things really are"

Just make normal damage for this. It so easy. Instead of micro-balancing with a -0.0001 sec delay, simply remove 10 damage from each, which was clearly overestimated from the start
20 damage at HAG 30, like at other weapons in this weight class.

[LordNothing]

it would be less of a problem to nerf it if we bring lasers down a notch. so many weapons have to play catchup the the photon spew that they are practically over buffed. leading to lower ttk. sometimes i think the cauldron are just repeating pgi's mistakes. making changes that just seem counterintuitive to stated goals.

[Tarl Cabot]

The6thMessenger, on 23 November 2023 - 07:31 PM, said:

I like the 2/slug with more-slugs, as the 5 PPFLD is also part of the damage problem with regards to it's efficiency. Problem is the engineering behind it, the stress to the system that they didn't want to add more.

Not seeing an engineering issue since they had to add it to the game, and there are other weapon systems s that put out different amount of slugs with different damages, RAC, Ultras and MG.

[The6thMessenger]

Tarl Cabot, on 23 November 2023 - 10:37 PM, said:

Not seeing an engineering issue since they had to add it to the game, and there are other weapon systems s that put out different amount of slugs with different damages, RAC, Ultras and MG.

Well, that's the engineering departments' reason for it IIRC, so I usually just leave it to them. Truthfully boggles my mind, but it's their software.

MechB Kotare, on 23 November 2023 - 02:32 PM, said:

Can't wait, till biased people, who don't know what they are talking about, jump in here, trying to convince you that HAGs are a sniping weapon nevertheless.

I honestly never thought it was, but I do see it encroaching and rendering AC2s less useful. Mostly because of what makes AC2s work and that is boating. Sure the DPS is high, and long-range is practically safe to stare out and sustain, but HAGs kinda don't have to, and would work on a setup that uses only one or two hardpoints when AC2s typically require a large array of it to compensate.

For instance, why would I pick 4x AC2s on the HBK-IIC, when I can put just two HAG30s and dump 60 damage in one peek, that minimizes exposure to my fragile ***?

I think the ensured 40, 60, 80 damage out from HAGs triumph over the unreliable burst-dps that the UAC2s have.

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 23 November 2023 - 09:44 PM, said:

If you make them short range weapons then what's the point of the UAC20? At that point you are sort of left with long range or clipping the damage through the artificial splash mechanic of cERPPCs to somewhat mitigate the single component potency at mid-range.

I'd wager it's because it's more competent in brawls and will win out on DPS. How IS-UAC20s remained relevant despite HGR's superior range and pin-point damage.

Edited by The6thMessenger, 23 November 2023 - 11:17 PM.

[Ignatius Audene]

Can u change the naming of quirks easily. The current situation (only affecting stalker is confusing like hell). U could take examples from finance and add ex b for excluding binary laser.

Even though the stalker is strong. Personally I think marauder and 7d stalker are a far bigger threat.

[Besh]

Providing reasoning and explanations for the changes coming with patch = much appreciated .
Transparency about the inner workings = much appreciated .

Please keep it up for following patches, and as Tarl Cabot mentioned in a post on page1, keep these posts clearly visible through pinning them .

Edited by Besh, 24 November 2023 - 12:42 AM.

[Curccu]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 23 November 2023 - 08:20 PM, said:

Given the usage of 20 tonners over any of the other lights idk that you can glean too much from usage stats (or at least the popular ones). Buffs/nerfs/new content can also skew usage stats for a month or so. I think the bottom of the barrel is more informative than the top.

Yep we ofc. see T1 and what so on but when have you seen Flea Romeo 5000 last time... At least for me If I see mech less than once a Year it could use some buff... heavy buff most likely.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Curccu, on 24 November 2023 - 12:54 AM, said:

Yep we ofc. see T1 and what so on but when have you seen Flea Romeo 5000 last time... At least for me If I see mech less than once a Year it could use some buff... heavy buff most likely.

I don't remember if a breakdown of usage by variant was actually posted (since that would be a long spreadsheet). That said, given how little lights are capable of weapons wise, I expect some to fall through the cracks if each one isn't tailored with singular builds in mind, and that point we are just back to trying to make this game a super stock game.

[pbiggz]

Frost_Byte, on 23 November 2023 - 01:24 PM, said:

Cauldron's aim over the next few months is to reduce the high-alpha creep and slow time to kill,

I know new equipment is probably outside the scope of possible things, but how hard would it be to get different armor types in the game? Reflective and reactive specifically?

Because that'd really **** up the meta in a way I think that is desperately needed.

[An6ryMan69]

Thanks for the explanation from the Cauldron.

Personally I think heat sinks are fine across the board (and I generally hate the entire BattleTech heat management concept in the first place...) and clan DHS advantages are made up for by all the structure and armor perks that IS mechs have; I would prefer clan DHS not be messed with.

[Weeny Machine]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 24 November 2023 - 09:43 AM, said:

I don't remember if a breakdown of usage by variant was actually posted (since that would be a long spreadsheet). That said, given how little lights are capable of weapons wise, I expect some to fall through the cracks if each one isn't tailored with singular builds in mind, and that point we are just back to trying to make this game a super stock game.

Actually I think the 35t lights in a worse state. They get hit all too easily and with the absurd volley flying around they easily lose an arm containing weapons, a leg or a ST etc

Quirks of lights:
Also look at quirks of a lot of lights. On a number of mechs, they are quite low.

Lastly:
Just look at the Raven - H (Huginn)...geez...it is a frikkin hero mech and it is still trash level. Even more absurd: missle heat generation -10 ...on a HEAT NEUTRAL mech. Seriously?

But bear with me, it gets even better: the mech looks like that after 2-3 quirk passes of the cauldron. And what did they do to balance that mech? They improved his jump jets (also cool: you can just equip 2) to balance it.

It is now rarer as a pink unicorn farting rainbows.

Edited by Weeny Machine, 24 November 2023 - 12:09 PM.

[Curccu]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 24 November 2023 - 09:43 AM, said:

I don't remember if a breakdown of usage by variant was actually posted (since that would be a long spreadsheet). That said, given how little lights are capable of weapons wise, I expect some to fall through the cracks if each one isn't tailored with singular builds in mind, and that point we are just back to trying to make this game a super stock game.

For my example mechs Romeo 5000 has hard points pretty close to some locusts, it has smaller engine cap and way worse quirks and no masc. There is absolutely no reason to play that mech if you got almost same mechs available but just better and with CB.

[RickySpanish]

Weeny Machine, on 24 November 2023 - 12:03 PM, said:

Actually I think the 35t lights in a worse state. They get hit all too easily and with the absurd volley flying around they easily lose an arm containing weapons, a leg or a ST etc

Quirks of lights:
Also look at quirks of a lot of lights. On a number of mechs, they are quite low.

Lastly:
Just look at the Raven - H (Huginn)...geez...it is a frikkin hero mech and it is still trash level. Even more absurd: missle heat generation -10 ...on a HEAT NEUTRAL mech. Seriously?

But bear with me, it gets even better: the mech looks like that after 2-3 quirk passes of the cauldron. And what did they do to balance that mech? They improved his jump jets (also cool: you can just equip 2) to balance it.

It is now rarer as a pink unicorn farting rainbows.

Lights are in a sorry state. I think moreso than any other weight class, Light 'Mechs have the greatest variability in effectiveness. You get absolute curb stompers like the Incubus, Wolfhound, Piranha and Urbie. Then you get bottom feeder level suicide 'Mechs like the Raven, Javelin, Commando and Jenner.

[Weeny Machine]

RickySpanish, on 24 November 2023 - 01:00 PM, said:

Lights are in a sorry state. I think moreso than any other weight class, Light 'Mechs have the greatest variability in effectiveness. You get absolute curb stompers like the Incubus, Wolfhound, Piranha and Urbie. Then you get bottom feeder level suicide 'Mechs like the Raven, Javelin, Commando and Jenner.

The problem is that even a Wolfhound can be easily taken out if one of those barrages hits it full in the ST and compared to other lights he is rather huge (just park it next to a medium and you will be surprised)

[RickySpanish]

They have good agility and mental quirks though, and the hardpoint locations are alright. I think if they were smaller they'd need a nerf elsewhere.

[foamyesque]

RickySpanish, on 24 November 2023 - 01:00 PM, said:

Then you get bottom feeder level suicide 'Mechs like the Raven, Javelin, Commando and Jenner.

I wouldn't class the Commando in with the others (nor the Raven necessarily -- the 3L is actually decent in a fight if you build it that way). A good Commando pilot can put in an awful lot of work.

[RickySpanish]

foamyesque, on 24 November 2023 - 06:33 PM, said:

I wouldn't class the Commando in with the others (nor the Raven necessarily -- the 3L is actually decent in a fight if you build it that way). A good Commando pilot can put in an awful lot of work.

A good Commando pilot is only as good as his opponents are bad.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Weeny Machine, on 24 November 2023 - 12:03 PM, said:

Actually I think the 35t lights in a worse state. They get hit all too easily and with the absurd volley flying around they easily lose an arm containing weapons, a leg or a ST etc

You see 35/30 tonners more in comp play because much 20 tonners, much like their TT counterparts, are agile but all it takes is a good shot to end your day fast, and most of them require facestaring to do any serious damage which is typically a death sentence. Ultimately being easier to hit and more able to withstand a shot is better than being small and rolling the dice on whether your opponent is sharp enough to land that one good shot. Which is where the 30/35 tonners come into play because they have solid enough firepower to maybe peek a couple of times and then reposition and have done annoying enough damage, that or they poptart.

Curccu, on 24 November 2023 - 12:59 PM, said:

For my example mechs Romeo 5000 has hard points pretty close to some locusts, it has smaller engine cap and way worse quirks and no masc. There is absolutely no reason to play that mech if you got almost same mechs available but just better and with CB.

I'll take your word for mostly because I'm not really a fan of any 20 tonner outside maybe the good ol SRM puker Locust and that's only because it reminds me of the old rocket launcher puker mechs from the MW4 days.