10 replies to this topic

[torsie]

I am very sorry, this got quickly out of hand! If anyone has the patience to read this alphabet salad I greatly appreciate it! Everyone else, please enter at your own risk
Hello o/ I am coming here to steal your ideas, tips, hints, explanations and sagely advice .

This -> is Torsie-1, she is a very good girl and has been with me from the start. She is BLOOD APS BAS-A, or so am I told, and together we have made 705 kills!
Also these are her skills, notice that she is very skillful.

She looks great, and is fun to play, I like the big guns and I also have smaller lasers to go pew pew when I lose all my ammo. We went through several variants and finally agreed upon this soup. I also put some smaller things on her because I wanted to help others like CLAM ECM, C-LASER AMS and she can also fly a little, but I dont know if they are any good.

The issue is, the more I play with her the worse I am , I think I should be getting better but lately I feel like I am not helping in the game at all
So I thought, maybe its time to upgrade both of us a little!

Well the idea is that I am going to post a list of questions, ideas, problems, issues and thoughts and hopefully, someone will be able to point me in the right direction.
Well here goes:

• What does Clan ECM do? I think I understand, kinda, but I get lost in the explanations a little. So when I turn it on people cant do that "R" square around me and when there is someone nearby who is causing the static I can push the button again and turn it off. But does it help? People sometimes flock around me and tell me that "ECM is good" but I still get shot at and waterfalled with rockets. I can also put that green target square on map even if it shows that enemy has ECM on? And whatever is that about the radar ranges and stuff, I am lost there.
  
• C-Laser AMS I understand this one, it shoots down rockets, great! But is it worth it? I like helping others, so I put it on, but to me it seems that there is either no rockets, or way too many and I am not helping at all, is it worth keeping it? Is the other version that needs food better?
  
• Targeting comp. MK ** it does things and it sounds super cool. But is it? I thought maybe if I get rid of something I could put on some, can I have multiple of them? Same ones, different MK numbers?
  
• Laser pointers yay C-Tag. If I understand it, it helps people who have Missiles. I thought that since I am just standing around, I could probably get one and help others? Maybe? Would it be worth it? Would it work? Do I need to shine it at someone the whole time or can I just poke out around corner do *boop* and hide?
  
• Support role! Thats the name. Can I be support? Or would something different be more helpful, is there even anything like a support in this game?
  
• Consumables, I have 3+- skill points flying around with nothing to do, Should I invest them into the "Consumables" section? I am currently using ADV ARTILLERY STRIKE. I dont know how to use the other one, and I dont know how to use the little blue drone correctly, so usually when I see a lots of people on one place I just throw bombs at them and run away. Should I use drone instead? Is the other ADV AIR STRIKE better ?
  
• C-H.A. GAUSS 30 are my big main shooters, buuut I was thinking about putting them away, they are super cool and fun to shoot with, and I can actually hear them! Sometimes . But they take some time before I can shoot them (which is also fun, when I accidentally slip my finger and shoot someone green in the back sorry) and you need to hit with all the smaller shots. So maybe I could use the C-ER PPC , because it would be cool to zap people, but isnt it too much of a step down? Also they EXPLODE?! WHY?! Who thought that is a good idea, I bonk into the wall and poor Torsie goes up in flames because I carry two suicidal boomsticks on me! Not cool.
  
• C-GAUSS RIFLE this one I like too, you need to be better with it! But it shoots only once. But its super heavy and takes a lot of space, so I dont understand if it is actually better?
  
• C-AC/** so this is just a normal pistol, I like it. I can put on 5 C-AC/2, would that be good idea? They are ok, shoot far, no heat (so cool) but they feel a bit soft, would the bigger ones be better? Or maybe one BIG one or two?
  
• 12! 12 LASERS! I can fit in 12 lasers of various colours, sizes, lengths, strengths and names. BUT I can also explode when I shoot them . Would there be a way in this? Do we have the technology for the ultimate christmas tree? I like having something that shoots for a very long distance (I dont like when people just sit on opposite side of map, plink at me and I cant do anything about it ) maybe one of those C-ER PPC and then some smaller lasers? I have seen someone running around with lots of those tiny red lasers, that looked like fun, but I dont think Torsie is made for that kind of close encounters .
  
• SKILLS that I chose are what sounded to me like a good idea at the time, did I pick some that are super bad? Is there something that is outright bad? I had some of those that help me turn around and move faster, so I can get rid of those pesky little ones biting at me, but that DID NOT help at all!

If I come up with some more questions I will spam some more ! Great many thanks to anyone and everyone who managed to reach the end of this horror story, thank you for any advice or tips or just comments in general !

Edited by torsie, 04 December 2023 - 08:58 AM.

[Void Angel]

OK! Well, first thing to consider is that HAGs are new, and that other players may be getting used to them. They can dish out a ton of damage, but lose in trading to pure sniper weapons that don't have to facetime targets while the HAGs burn. Another thing is that the HAGs got nerfed last patch with more heat - and you're running a very hot build. In fact it's very close to mine, except that I opted for 4 cERML, since they were cooler and synched better with range. You might swap out some omnipods to Try Dakka, with some adjustments for your core chassis (and you should also pull armor from your rear arcs. I recommend a max of five armor points on rear torsos even with Assaults - many of us use 3 or less.)

Now, onward to your questions! Many of them are related to each other, so I'll consolidate my responses instead of going point by point.

All ECM Systems (clan and Inner Sphere) work the same way. The Clans' model was nerfed a while back to have less range reduction, but is otherwise the same. ECM does three primary things to all 'mechs within its 120m range.

• It reduces the effective sensor range of enemy 'mechs. This is the distance at which enemies are pointed out on your HUD, so you can press R and mark a target, or get missile locks - MWO calls this ECM feature "target range reduction." Clan ECM has 63% TRR with skills (you need the skill nodes,) so if my Blood Asp in the link above, with 1080m sensor range was trying to target a cECM 'mech, its sensor range would be reduced by 63%, to ~400m.
  
• It slows missile lock (and I think target information speed) for 'mechs that can detect the ECM 'mech. That means if I get my LRM boat to within 400m of that ECM 'mech, it'll still take much longer to lock onto my target. If the range opens to more than 400m, my lock will instantly be dropped (assuming no one else is spotting.)
  
• Finally, it interferes with target information sharing for all enemies caught inside that 120m range. Normal function is that if you can detect an enemy and hit "R" to target them, your teammates can see that information too, but ECM stops this from happening. This is why you see friendly 'mechs with the Low Signal cell phone signal bars, but not the ECM 'mech they're fighting.
  
• ECM also has an ecosystem of counter systems. ECM that has been toggled to Counter mode, Active Probes, and UAVs will counter ECM's Target Range Reduction - generally 1 counter per one ECM, so if you have 2 Active probes against 3 ECM, you're out of luck if they're all in each other's ECM range. Notice that (like Active probes) Advanced Sensor Suites, and even Targeting Computers act as a soft counter by increasing your total sensor range, but don't take those just for that. Finally, a PPC striking the ECM 'mech itself will disable ECM entirely - a few seconds for a PPC, and for the entire hideous duration of a NARC beacon.

As for your other questions:

• TAG, in addition to being part of the ECM-Counters ecosystem is primarily a strong addition to an LRM-boat's arsenal, since they can burn through any number of ECM systems to target whatever 'mech you hit and enhancing LRM functioning. Essential equipment for LRM boats and dedicated LRM spotters - waste of one ton and a hardpoint for everyone else.
  
• AMS (laser and otherwise) is part of the LRM ecosystem, providing a soft-counter to incoming fire. It's difficult to gauge how effective it's going to be because that depends on how many missiles are (or are not) brought by the enemy team. If you're seeing LRMs regularly, it's generally worth it. Do not expect a single AMS to stop all incoming missile fire; think of it as damage reduction. This is much less important if you have ECM on the field, so consider ditching it for another Heat Sink or something.
  
• Targeting computers are one to a 'mech, and the different Mks of TC are just bigger and better. TCs become less effective per ton the larger they are, so don't bother with any over about 3 tons. They help with long-range marksmanship, but gauss slugs are so fast, it often doesn't matter.
  
• There is no support, but some 'mechs are more durable than others. Prior to a recent buff, the Blood Asp had no torso omnipods with both a weapon hardpoint and an armor bonus. Now they have a whopping +7, but they're still primarily a weapons platform. Position yourself well, and smash people with your many, many weapons. You'll go down quickly if they focus on you, but your firepower is awe-inspiring.
  
• HAGs v Gauss is essentially long-range burst v pure sniping. The Gauss Rifle does less damage per ton, for almost no heat, but it doesn't have to stare at people. The HAG does a lot more damage for a lot more heat. That's the difference; use whichever gun suits what you're building your 'mech to do. For both guns, however, you want to pre-charge your Gauss before poking out of cover to deal damage.
  
• HEAT! Muahahahah. Heat is a primary resource in the game. This dates back to Ye Olde Tabletop Battletech, back in the 1980s. MWO has a different format and game mechanics, however (being a shooter,) and so there are some additional rules like the Heat Scale penalty system. That's why you blew yourself to meaty bits with two HAGs and an ERPPC. You can only fire two of those at once without a massive heat spike. Go to MechDB and check out the tables, and pay attention to the warning triangles near your 'mech's name in MWO's mechlab - that'll let you know if you could hit "Ghost Heat" with your build.
  
• For consumables, consider putting one point into the consumables tree and taking both Artillery and a UAV! UAVs are great for situational awareness, such as when enemy Lights are going after you (positioning helps with that, as does playing a Light yourself so you know how they work.) Artillery is great for breaking up enemy formations, so having both is good.
  
• Finally, Skills. You're going to want to ditch all the Hardened Casing nodes and put them into ECM. Otherwise, not too bad, but you'll also want improved Gauss to help with peeking. I'd recommend This Skill set. I leave velocity alone because the build does better with mid-range combat despite the HAGs, but it's experimental. If you want more velocity, take it out of the Cooldown nodes, particularly with that build. You don't care much about cooldown, because you're primarily limited by heat. In any case, always use the ECM nodes for ECM 'mechs, and always put in the Armor and Structure nodes. I also recommend one point of Radar Deprivation, because it gives a flash when it activates (i.e. when an enemy loses targeting on you early because of the skill.)

Edited by Void Angel, 04 December 2023 - 10:39 AM.

[Void Angel]

Also don't forget to check on your omnipod quirks and set bonuses. (Very) occasionally a Set of 8 bonus will be worth optimizing a build around, but generally you'll want to optimize hardpoints instead (it's a testament to the effectiveness of Clan weapons that you can ignore some hefty quirks purely for more weapon hardpoints. However, some omnipods will have different quirks for the same hardpoints, so make sure you're selecting omnipods based on quirks and not simply looking at hardpoint availability.

PS: I edited the prior post, so you might not have seen all of it before you hit that like button. =]

[torsie]

Void Angel, on 04 December 2023 - 09:38 AM, said:

Time for crab

Thank you very much for actually going through all that awesome! Let me repay you by tossing some more word salad at you


I dont know if that Try Dakka is supposed to be link, but it doesnt work on my side.

I also had those C-ER MED lasers! Because they dont cook me that much, and because I thought that its better to shoot someone from distance, even if it does less damage. Especially if your opponent can plink at you the whole time.
But I never managed to kill anyone! So I changed them, they do much more heat, have shorter range, but I figured that since I use them only when I am out of ammo anyway, I might as well get closer and I actually manage to shoot someone with them from time to time.
Maybe I will give the other ones try again . They deserve a second chance.

I can never decide, every time I remove some of my ammo to put more heat sinks in, I start running out of ammo and every time I remove heat sinks I blow myself up every match

I read that people dont use much bum armour, but I am scared I will try removing some more, when I start blowing up too much I will put some back .

I want to learn how to play the little ones, they look like so much fun to play, I always watch other people play them after they destroy me, but its sooo hard, I just explode all the time.

I did this to my skills, removed that cooldown, removed reinforced casing, put it into the ECM tree and I had points left, so I put it into range, gauss charge and consumable, now I have both drone and bombs. (I thought that gauss charge makes it longer before you can shoot )

Is "Reinforced Casing" really not that useful? I thought it could help, since I have weapon that is specifically made to get more critically hit and can explode on me

What does that radar deprivation look like? That sounds very useful especially for someone like me.

I noticed those bonuses, but I couldnt make them work .

What do you think about that C-ER PPC would that be good potential option for those big guns, or is it better for something other?

Edited by torsie, 04 December 2023 - 12:29 PM.

[Void Angel]

Huh. Doesn't work on my side either. Lemme check my notes... Oh, I pasted something else in there that's not an actual link. Here's My Dakka Build.

[Void Angel]

For HAGs, you want to be firing your lasers with the HAGs if both weapon systems are in range, and the target isn't moving laterally. After all, they're both duration-firing weapons, so you get more damage before the target can react that way. If it's moving (such as with a circling Light,) then use the lasers while you're charging the HAGs.

Using that link to MechDB, you'll be able to see how much damage the ammo you're bringing will yield. My Blood Asp has 1400 damage worth of UAC/5 ammo, and 690 damage in UAC/10 ammo. It can also alpha its guns nearly 7 times before overheat, although this stat is somewhat misleading because I'm using two different calibers of dakka alongside some backup lasers. Discounting the micro lasers that are only for close-in defense and heat dumping, I can fire for a long time - but the 'mech can still overheat, which is what you want. Heat is a resource, and it's being wasted any time you are at zero heat.

Radar Deprivation gives a sort of non-local flash - kind of like a camera flash going off where you can't see it. I don't generally pay attention to the flash because the audio chirp it gives is much more effective - but since your forum title says you're hearing impaired, I figured that might not be too useful for you. =]

Your skills are better now, except that Improved Gyros and Target Retention are also underpowered skill nodes. Weapons just don't knock you around like they used to; explosions and such can blind you, but the skill doesn't help with that. Your mileage may vary, of course - if your matches have a lot of newbie/lazy Lights who like to death circle until one of you is dead, Target Retention might help a bit, but you'll get more out of Heat Containment and Improved UAV Range. Heat Containment is highly prized by high-level players because it lets them fight longer with high-heat, high-damage builds.

Reinforced Casing is a good bonus, but it's just too many nodes for what you get. Sure, your HAG can explode, but the damage isn't that much, and it only matters once your armor is opened anyway (a little over a third of total durability on the Blood Asp.) With the skill nodes you spent there, you can dramatically increase your performance in other areas, so while crit resistance is good, the bonus isn't good per skill node.

The Set of 8 bonuses require that you use all 8 of an Omnimech's standard omnipods. So everything including your CT has to be an "A" pod to get the Set of 8 bonuses for the BAS-A, etc.

The cERPPC is one of the better weapons in the game. It does frontloaded pinpoint damage at long range with no ammo requirements, though it is very hot - thus, you will want to Go Earless for the Set of 8 bonuses and heat reduction quirks in your BAS-A's torsos.

[w0qj]

There's a BAS-A(C) version, and with the optional full set of cockpit +CBills items, it tops out at +25% CBills bonus!

OR if you don't care for the 2ton JJ in BAS-A, then just use BAS-B for more ammo (or DHS, etc.)!

Oh, and there's a BAS-B(P) with +30% CBills bonus also!

[torsie]

Void Angel, on 04 December 2023 - 01:08 PM, said:

For HAGs, you want to be firing your lasers with the HAGs if both weapon systems are in range, and the target isn't moving laterally. After all, they're both duration-firing weapons, so you get more damage before the target can react that way. If it's moving (such as with a circling Light,) then use the lasers while you're charging the HAGs.

Hmmm that is actually smart, I didnt realize that, I would just shoot my big guns and use lasers only when something is nearby. Thats it I am going for the, uhm, other ones!

Void Angel, on 04 December 2023 - 01:08 PM, said:

Using that link to MechDB, you'll be able to see how much damage the ammo you're bringing will yield. My Blood Asp has 1400 damage worth of UAC/5 ammo, and 690 damage in UAC/10 ammo. It can also alpha its guns nearly 7 times before overheat

Around 1200 damage, but I dont know if its correct, because I have actually more ammo than I have here. Oh its from the skills. And ATO is 1,3 but that is probably also weird, those longer lasers barely increase my heat, compared to the big damage ones.

Void Angel, on 04 December 2023 - 01:08 PM, said:

explosions and such can blind you, but the skill doesn't help with that

We absolutely need skill for that

Void Angel, on 04 December 2023 - 01:08 PM, said:

Heat Containment is highly prized by high-level players because it lets them fight longer with high-heat, high-damage builds.

Hmmm I think I dont make that much heat if I use the longer lasers, I wonder if I should use the heavy ones and try this skill instead.

Void Angel, on 04 December 2023 - 01:08 PM, said:

The Set of 8 bonuses require that you use all 8 of an Omnimech's standard omnipods. So everything including your CT has to be an "A" pod to get the Set of 8 bonuses for the BAS-A, etc.

Figured that out, but not with the bits and gubbins I want . I bought "wrong" one the first time and I wanted to get rid of the jumping, but its so much fun and it helps me get around the map and run away sometimes, that I have decided to keep it as it is. I guess no set bonus for me .

Void Angel, on 04 December 2023 - 01:08 PM, said:

thus, you will want to Go Earless

pffff

w0qj, on 04 December 2023 - 01:43 PM, said:

There's a BAS-A(C) version, and with the optional full set of cockpit +CBills items, it tops out at +25% CBills bonus!

OR if you don't care for the 2ton JJ in BAS-A, then just use BAS-B for more ammo (or DHS, etc.)!

Oh, and there's a BAS-B(P) with +30% CBills bonus also!

I actually wanted to get rid of the jumping because I am not fond of flying robots in general, but I am really enjoying it, so I will probably keep Torsie as she is.

Next time I should probably look at them more carefully, they all looked the same to me

[Void Angel]

Jump Jets are very good for mobility - it's hard to get up on top of a lot of places in big 'mechs without Jump Jets. That's why competitive players will want a single jump jet on most builds that support it. Don't take more than you need, though. You don't actually want to fly around the map, because then you get used for ***** shooting practice - but just being able to get up onto a short step is valuable. Consider how far around you have to go around the C line on Mining Collective to get back into the central area.

[Void Angel]

torsie, on 04 December 2023 - 08:35 AM, said:

• Consumables, I have 3+- skill points flying around with nothing to do, Should I invest them into the "Consumables" section? I am currently using ADV ARTILLERY STRIKE. I dont know how to use the other one, and I dont know how to use the little blue drone correctly, so usually when I see a lots of people on one place I just throw bombs at them and run away. Should I use drone instead? Is the other ADV AIR STRIKE better ?

Oh! I forgot this - do not use the MC consumables. Back when PGI had a very bad publisher, IGP (who went out of business and did shady stuff with money,) they came up with the MC consumables. They were essentially a pay-to-win feature. This was before the Skill Tree was in the game, and each 'mech had one or more slots for "Modules," that would do things like increase SRM range and whatnot. The MC versions were the upgraded version of the artillery and airstrike consumables - the c-bill versious could be as good, if you used a module slot. Long story short, we lit the forums on fire, flat-out refusing to continue to play the game if this was implemented, and it was quickly dropped; I suspect it was IGP's idea.

Anyhow, never use MC consumables, not even to use ones you got from an event. If you check the box to auto-replace them, they will drain your mc steadily if you don't have any left in inventory, and this is a flat-out waste of MC for something that only costs 40K c-bills in the first place - I don't think PGI even gives the MC versions out any more, but they're essentially a newbie trap. Avoid.

[Void Angel]

As for HOW to use strikes, you just aim your arm reticle at where you want the strike to go, and hit the assigned key. This will drop a smoke cannister, which will be followed by explosive rain after a few seconds. Airstrikes land in a line, while artillery pounds an area. Airstrikes also land instantly, beginning at your smoke and traveling away from wherever you were when you dropped the strike. Artillery bombards the area centered around your smoke for a set duration. You can check which key bindings you like for each consumable (I use G for the UAV because that was my PvP trinket in WoW,) and see how the strikes work without using them up in the Testing Grounds.

In general, Airstrikes are more focused but harder to use (there's an aircraft that flies over, warning an alert enemy,) and Artillery is an area denial tool that punishes camping. Another important consideration is that while the smoke falls instantly, it falls from the sky, as do the munitions - this means you can hide under things and blast people on top of them. The strike also will drop on the first thing it hits under your reticle, even if that is an invisible wall in front of you - or an enemy's UAV.