40 replies to this topic

[torsie]

Hi, me again.
I am looking for a help with my super secret project.

Theoretically, what if, someone wanted to use missiles, specifically the ones that need lock on, but tried outsmarting the reliance on other people for targeting, by taking some fast mech, preferably small one, and putting missiles on it.

The plan would be, running around the map, finding some nice place where you can see and hit the enemy team, shooting few missiles and then quickly running away before anyone decides they had enough.

I have been perusing some of the smaller chicken walkers, since they are my favourite, and some of them look very pretty, but once I start fiddling with them, I cant seem to fit everything on it, I cant decide how much speed I want, I cant decide if I want one of those TAG laser pointers or that NARC sounds super cool, also I am looking for that thing that makes you go super fast but burns your legs, I saw it once but cant find it again .

Whenever I build anything it always feels very bland and boring, I was wondering if there is anything for this purpose or if its just awful idea all around. I was looking mostly at light mechs, but it doesnt have to specifically be light. And jumping, not necessary but would be cool, even thought I think just running around fast should be enough .

tl;dr Speeeeed and missiles ! And preferably chicken shaped .

Edited by torsie, 16 December 2023 - 02:06 PM.

[martian]

torsie, on 16 December 2023 - 01:58 PM, said:

Hi, me again.
I am looking for a help with my super secret project.

Theoretically, what if, someone wanted to use missiles, specifically the ones that need lock on, but tried outsmarting the reliance on other people for targeting, by taking some fast mech, preferably small one, and putting missiles on it.

The plan would be, running around the map, finding some nice place where you can see and hit the enemy team, shooting few missiles and then quickly running away before anyone decides they had enough.

I have been perusing some of the smaller chicken walkers, since they are my favourite, and some of them look very pretty, but once I start fiddling with them, I cant seem to fit everything on it, I cant decide how much speed I want,

Whenever I build anything it always feels very bland and boring, I was wondering if there is anything for this purpose or if its just awful idea all around. I was looking mostly at light mechs, but it doesnt have to specifically be light. And jumping, not necessary but would be cool, even thought I think just running around fast should be enough .

tl;dr Speeeeed and missiles ! And preferably chicken shaped .

Raven, maybe? I would suggest RVN-3L (energy and missile hardpoints; no jump jets) or RVN-H (ballistic and missile hardpoints, so it can not equip TAG; jump capable). RVN-3L would be probably better, since it can equip TAG or NARC or both, and its ECM is always useful, if you wish to move around the map.

Or Locust? LCT-1M Maybe?

Perhaps Kit Fox or Adder? But they have fixed engines, so if you find them too slow, there is nothing you could do with it.

Or Jenner? Jenner IIC?

Arctic Wolf, Ice Ferret, Shadow Cat or Viper would also fit.

Hellspawn can also run LRMs and it can be pretty agile. Cicada "X5" for MCs. Some Assassin variants would also fit.

torsie, on 16 December 2023 - 01:58 PM, said:

I cant decide if I want one of those TAG laser pointers or that NARC sounds super cool,

TAG shows your position as long as you use it, but it is lightweight and it can not run out of ammo. It needs a line of sight. It pierces enemy ECM field, as long as you are outside it.

NARC has a shorter range, it is heavier (especially with some additional ammo), it has a slow missile and a quite long cooldown.
On the other hand, it is a fire-and-forget weapon, that can help you with indirect fire. Also, it disables enemy ECM.

torsie, on 16 December 2023 - 01:58 PM, said:

also I am looking for that thing that makes you go super fast but burns your legs, I saw it once but cant find it again .

MASC - Myomer Accelerator Signal Circuitry.

Makes your 'Mech move faster and more agile, but it can damage your 'Mech's legs, if used for too long. Only some 'Mechs can use it.

Edited by martian, 16 December 2023 - 02:48 PM.

[Void Angel]

torsie, on 16 December 2023 - 01:58 PM, said:

Hi, me again.
I am looking for a help with my super secret project.

Theoretically, what if, someone wanted to use missiles, specifically the ones that need lock on, but tried outsmarting the reliance on other people for targeting, by taking some fast mech, preferably small one, and putting missiles on it.

The plan would be, running around the map, finding some nice place where you can see and hit the enemy team, shooting few missiles and then quickly running away before anyone decides they had enough.

I have been perusing some of the smaller chicken walkers, since they are my favourite, and some of them look very pretty, but once I start fiddling with them, I cant seem to fit everything on it, I cant decide how much speed I want, I cant decide if I want one of those TAG laser pointers or that NARC sounds super cool, also I am looking for that thing that makes you go super fast but burns your legs, I saw it once but cant find it again .

Whenever I build anything it always feels very bland and boring, I was wondering if there is anything for this purpose or if its just awful idea all around. I was looking mostly at light mechs, but it doesnt have to specifically be light. And jumping, not necessary but would be cool, even thought I think just running around fast should be enough .

tl;dr Speeeeed and missiles ! And preferably chicken shaped .

Arctic Wolf. Fast enough, with huge missile cooldown and heat quirks. Don't try to get entirely behind the enemy; wait until the fight has started and you know where enemy Lights are, then flank and drop the hammer. Target enemies who are already being shot at by your teammates and watch the rain fall.

Bear in mind that ATMs do more damage when you're closer to the enemy - you can roughly see the break points on the weapon's stats profile in MWO's mechlab.

Edited by Void Angel, 16 December 2023 - 03:43 PM.

[torsie]

[Incoming Word Salad]

1. Why is there no Flea FLE with more places for missiles ?!

2. Would Locust LCT-3S be better than Locust LCT-1M. Since it has more missiles places instead of laser ones? Oh I get it, its fun having so many places to put missiles, but when you cant even use all of them because you are at 20 tons limit they are kinda pointless.

3. I dont understand the difference between Jenner and Jenner IIC. Isnt the IIC, well, better? At least it looks like that to me when I just open it to look at its items.

4. So is there some sort of definitive answer? Between C-LRM, LRM and C-ATM ? They all require locking on the target, unlike the other one which just flies where you aim, the blue ones shoot, uhm like a line and the yellow ones shoot a blob. There seems to be some difference in how much damage they do, but they also have different ranges. Ugh why cant things be simple .

5. Also Artemis? Is it worth it, I was trying it in the testing maps and it, uhm does nothing?

6. So there are like no mechs that can put on the MASC thingie?! According to that website there is like 20 mechs total! And if I use the filters to look for mine its like 2?! Well no MASC for me ..

7. Hmm I will probably try TAG for now, seems like every small mech can have missiles and lasers but few of them have multiple places for missiles, which means I would have NARC and no missiles to use it with .

8. Arctic Wolf looks super cool (even if it has human torso, kinda like a chicken-taur ) and there is even one with 9!!! places for missiles, woooow! Do they come in light ?

9. So my Torsie1 is a "Blood Asp BAS-A" and there is a thing with her, that I can change body parts, so when I get tired of my big guns (never!) I could just buy different shoulders and use different guns. But other mechs that I looked at cant do that? How do I know which mech can do that and which cant, without having to look at them and open them one by one?

10. So small heat sink and big heat sink. They weight the same, but the bigger one takes more space and is slightly better at heatsinking. But when I am messing around with them, the game still yells at me that I need 5 heat sinks, no matter which size I use, is that ok or am I missing something? Shouldnt it be less Double Heat Sinks, since they are stronger?

11. Why cant some mechs use Stealth Armor? Oh nevermind, it looks like you need ECM-thingie.(Wait I have that on Torsie1, can I have stealth armour?!)

(Shhh have a look at this, but dont tell anyone!!!)

Edited by torsie, 17 December 2023 - 03:15 AM.

[martian]

torsie, on 17 December 2023 - 02:12 AM, said:

1. Why is there no Flea FLE with more places for missiles ?!

Flea "Romeo 5000" offers a pair of missile hardpoints. Flea FLE-19 has just one missile hardpoint, but it is available for C-Bills.

torsie, on 17 December 2023 - 02:12 AM, said:

2. Would Locust LCT-3S be better than Locust LCT-1M. Since it has more missiles places instead of laser ones?

That would depend on your intended loadout.

LCT-1M has less missile hardpoints, but it has got significant LRM quirks (velocity, cooldown and LRM ammo). Your choice.

torsie, on 17 December 2023 - 02:12 AM, said:

3. I dont understand the difference between Jenner and Jenner IIC. Isnt the IIC, well, better? At least it looks like that to me when I just open it to look at its items.

Jenner is the IS original 'Mech, Jenner IIC is the Clan model. Note that although Jenner uses the heavier IS technology, some variants have quite interesting quirks.

torsie, on 17 December 2023 - 02:12 AM, said:

4. So is there some sort of definitive answer? Between C-LRM, LRM and C-ATM ? They all require locking on the target, unlike the other one which just flies where you aim, the blue ones shoot, uhm like a line and the yellow ones shoot a blob. There seems to be some difference in how much damage they do, but they also have different ranges. Ugh why cant things be simple .

Since they all require lock (since firing them without lock is usually just a waste of ammo), having TAG or NARC can often be useful for acquiring such lock. You can even help other friendly LRM boats, if you Narc or TAG enemy 'Mech.

torsie, on 17 December 2023 - 02:12 AM, said:

5. Also Artemis? Is it worth it, I was trying it in the testing maps and it, uhm does nothing?

It improves the spread of your LRMs. However, smaller LRM racks have a good spread even without Artemis IV FCS.

torsie, on 17 December 2023 - 02:12 AM, said:

6. So there are like no mechs that can put on the MASC thingie?! According to that website there is like 20 mechs total! And if I use the filters to look for mine its like 2?! Well no MASC for me ..

As I said, not every 'Mech can equip MASC.

On the other hand, the aforementioned LRM boating Shadow Cat B has fixed MASC.

torsie, on 17 December 2023 - 02:12 AM, said:

7. Hmm I will probably try TAG for now, seems like every small mech can have missiles and lasers but few of them have multiple places for missiles, which means I would have NARC and no missiles to use it with .

Clan NARC is lighter and smaller than the IS NARC.

torsie, on 17 December 2023 - 02:12 AM, said:

8. Arctic Wolf looks super cool (even if it has human torso, kinda like a chicken-taur ) and there is even one with 9!!! places for missiles, woooow! Do they come in light ?

No, but the light Jenner IIC has six missile hardpoints.

torsie, on 17 December 2023 - 02:12 AM, said:

9. So my Torsie1 is a "Blood Asp BAS-A" and there is a thing with her, that I can change body parts, so when I get tired of my big guns (never!) I could just buy different shoulders and use different guns. But other mechs that I looked at cant do that? How do I know which mech can do that and which cant, without having to look at them and open them one by one?

Only Clan OmniMechs can swap OmnPods in MWO, so you can ignore IS 'Mechs.

There are following Clan OmniMechs in MWO:

• Light: Adder, Arctic Cheetah, Cougar, Kit Fox, Mist Lynx
  
• Medium: Arctic Wolf (Prime, A, P), Black Lanner, Huntsman, Ice Ferret, Nova, Shadow Cat, Stormcrow, Viper
  
• Heavy: Ebon Jaguar, Hellbringer, Linebacker, Night Gyr, Nova Cat, Timber Wolf (not "Howl"), Sun Spider, Mad Dog, Summoner
  
• Assault: Dire Wolf, Blood Asp, Gargoyle, Executioner, Warhawk

torsie, on 17 December 2023 - 02:12 AM, said:

10. So small heat sink and big heat sink. They weight the same, but the bigger one takes more space and is slightly better at heatsinking. But when I am messing around with them, the game still yells at me that I need 5 heat sinks, no matter which size I use, is that ok or am I missing something? Shouldnt it be less Double Heat Sinks, since they are stronger?

Your 'Mech always needs ten heat sinks. 250-rated engine has the room for all of them inside the engine. For every 25-rating less, your engine can accomodate one less heat sink. So 225-rated engine can accomodate only nine heat sinks and you must place the tenth heat sink elsewhere. Ditto for even smaller engine sizes.

On the other hand, you can place one heat sink inside the engine for every 25-rating above the 250-rating, so for example the 275-rated engine can accomodate one more heat sink. Check the extralight engine of your Blood Asp.

torsie, on 17 December 2023 - 02:12 AM, said:

11. Why cant some mechs use Stealth Armor? Oh nevermind, it looks like you need ECM-thingie.(Wait I have that on Torsie1, can I have stealth armour?!)

Carrying the ECM suite is a prerequisite for equipping Stealth armor, but not every ECM-capable 'Mech can actually carry Stealth armor.

[torsie]

Romeo refuses to cooperate

Hmmm currently the issues seem to be:

1. I Suck !!! I didnt know piloting a light mech was so hard, I just get exploded all the time.

2. It doesnt do enough damage. Even when I managed to survive long enough, to spend all my missiles (I use 2 boxes which is something around 550 missiles) and even helped taking down few enemies. I still got barely 200 damage at the end of the match.

Hmm it would seem I either need to move to bigger category and make one of the boats people keep talking about or maybe put it to rest for now, I still need to get better.

[KursedVixen]

Arctic cheetah can carry a few missiles.

there's also the viper

Or the Scaleshot if your willing to spend $15 bucks..

Jenner or jenner IIC

The Stormcrow is resonably fast for a medium but it's not as fast as the viper

Edited by KursedVixen, 17 December 2023 - 09:09 AM.

[Horseman]

torsie, on 17 December 2023 - 02:12 AM, said:

2. Would Locust LCT-3S be better than Locust LCT-1M. Since it has more missiles places instead of laser ones? Oh I get it, its fun having so many places to put missiles, but when you cant even use all of them because you are at 20 tons limit they are kinda pointless.

Exactly.

Quote

3. I dont understand the difference between Jenner and Jenner IIC. Isnt the IIC, well, better? At least it looks like that to me when I just open it to look at its items.

IIC is clantech. You can't drop it on IS side in Faction Play.

Quote

4. So is there some sort of definitive answer? Between C-LRM, LRM and C-ATM ? They all require locking on the target, unlike the other one which just flies where you aim, the blue ones shoot, uhm like a line and the yellow ones shoot a blob. There seems to be some difference in how much damage they do, but they also have different ranges. Ugh why cant things be simple .

C-LRMs do better for this because you can fit more on a relatively light chassis. ATMs do better at short ranges because of their range brackets.

Quote

5. Also Artemis? Is it worth it, I was trying it in the testing maps and it, uhm does nothing?

Not with very small launchers. Artemis reduces missile spread, which is relevant for bigger launchers (think SRM6s, LRM15s and LRM20s). It does nothing for ATMs.

Quote

9. So my Torsie1 is a "Blood Asp BAS-A" and there is a thing with her, that I can change body parts, so when I get tired of my big guns (never!) I could just buy different shoulders and use different guns. But other mechs that I looked at cant do that? How do I know which mech can do that and which cant, without having to look at them and open them one by one?

Your Blood Asp is an omnimech. Currently only Clan mechs are Omnimechs, and only some of them. But with the exception of Arctic Wolf (which has both Battlemech and Omnimech versions), if one variant of a chassis is an Omnimech then all of them are, and if one is not than none of them are.

Quote

10. So small heat sink and big heat sink. They weight the same, but the bigger one takes more space and is slightly better at heatsinking. But when I am messing around with them, the game still yells at me that I need 5 heat sinks, no matter which size I use, is that ok or am I missing something? Shouldnt it be less Double Heat Sinks, since they are stronger?

The construction rules from the tabletop board game that the entire franchise is based on require ten heat sinks to be installed on your mech, regardless which type.

Quote

11. Why cant some mechs use Stealth Armor? Oh nevermind, it looks like you need ECM-thingie.(Wait I have that on Torsie1, can I have stealth armour?!)

You can't have Stealth Armor on a Blood Asp.
First, it's an Omnimech and Omnimechs cannot change armor type.
Second, it's a Clan mech and Clans do not use Stealth Armor

Edited by Horseman, 17 December 2023 - 09:35 AM.

[martian]

torsie, on 17 December 2023 - 08:18 AM, said:

Romeo refuses to cooperate

Hmmm currently the issues seem to be:

1. I Suck !!! I didnt know piloting a light mech was so hard, I just get exploded all the time.

Well, there is a certain difference between piloting a 20-ton light Mech and piloting 90-ton assault 'Mech.

torsie, on 17 December 2023 - 08:18 AM, said:

2. It doesnt do enough damage. Even when I managed to survive long enough, to spend all my missiles (I use 2 boxes which is something around 550 missiles) and even helped taking down few enemies. I still got barely 200 damage at the end of the match.

Hmm it would seem I either need to move to bigger category and make one of the boats people keep talking about or maybe put it to rest for now, I still need to get better.

You are trying to play a small LRM boat in the game where ECM and other LRM counters are quite common.

[Horseman]

torsie, on 17 December 2023 - 08:18 AM, said:

Romeo refuses to cooperate

Hmmm currently the issues seem to be:

1. I Suck !!! I didnt know piloting a light mech was so hard, I just get exploded all the time.

2. It doesnt do enough damage. Even when I managed to survive long enough, to spend all my missiles (I use 2 boxes which is something around 550 missiles) and even helped taking down few enemies. I still got barely 200 damage at the end of the match.

Hmm it would seem I either need to move to bigger category and make one of the boats people keep talking about or maybe put it to rest for now, I still need to get better.

Try a Kit Fox or Adder if you really want a missile light.
But to be honest for LRM boats you really want at least a medium.

[KursedVixen]

Horseman, on 17 December 2023 - 09:34 AM, said:

Not with very small launchers. Artemis reduces missile spread, which is relevant for bigger launchers (think SRM6s, LRM15s and LRM20s). It does nothing for ATMs.

ATMs are suppose to have artemis built in which is why they are larger components

Quote

Your Blood Asp is an omnimech. Currently only Clan mechs are Omnimechs, and only some of them. But with the exception of Arctic Wolf (which has both Battlemech and Omnimech versions), if one variant of a chassis is an Omnimech then all of them are, and if one is not than none of them are.

There is also the howl but it cost 15 bucks like the scaleshot and it's a battlemech version of theTimberwolf. The howl has jump jets (allows you to jump) and can equip Masc so it can go fast if you build it for speed but you'll have to sacrrifice something to get a bigger engine...


Also a tip

https://mwo.nav-alpha.com/

you can use this website to look at and pre-build mechs, however it will not display the cost in c-bills (that's the in game currency you earn for playing) but it will allow you to mess around with the building stuff and look at all the mechs.

Edited by KursedVixen, 17 December 2023 - 11:52 AM.

[torsie]

Alright! Thank you everyone for helping me . I think what I want, what I can play and what works within this game are like one those triangle thingies "Pick 2".

There are some really cool ideas here and I learned lot of new things, I bought some of the mechs you recommended and I will probably play them a little every once in a while to learn them more properly and then I will build the ultimate firework machine!

Is there some similar website but where I could practice skills? I was wondering what would be good on light mech, but I dont want to buy whole skill tree only to find out that it doesnt increase speed that much for example.

Anyway, the hardest thing remains .
What do we name him? Or her, but I think its him, Torsie1s little brother.

(I might actually shuffle him a little and use one of those short range missiles, but so far it feels quite nice to play)

[Horseman]

torsie, on 17 December 2023 - 01:17 PM, said:

I think what I want, what I can play and what works within this game are like one those triangle thingies "Pick 2".

Try Adder ADR-A or Kit Fox KFX-D.

Quote

Is there some similar website but where I could practice skills? I was wondering what would be good on light mech, but I dont want to buy whole skill tree only to find out that it doesnt increase speed that much for example.

No, there were skill planners but they've been invalidated when the tree was updated a while ago.
You can allocate points in the tree before you pay for them, and use a button in the mechlab to take the mech into training grounds with your skill build without having actually paid for the skill points.

Edited by Horseman, 17 December 2023 - 01:43 PM.

[torsie]

Horseman, on 17 December 2023 - 01:40 PM, said:

No, there were skill planners but they've been invalidated when the tree was updated a while ago. You can allocate points in the tree before you pay for them, and use a button in the mechlab to take the mech into training grounds with your skill build without having actually paid for the skill points.

Wow thats awesome I didnt realize that, I thought it works only for weapons and such . Thank you !

[Void Angel]

torsie, on 17 December 2023 - 01:17 PM, said:

What do we name him? Or her, but I think its him, Torsie1s little brother.

I'd optimize that by dropping the LRM5 in favor of More Bang, since that one LRM5 isn't going to do much damage in a match - a maximum of 240 damage, in fact based on your ammo. You'll get some bonuses with TAG and whatnot, but you really want to focus a 'mech on one thing when you're building it.

Take My Blood Asp. This is a pretty optimized build; the micro-lasers are there purely for Lights and heat dumping in a pinch - the focus of the build is on my autocannons. Now, ideally you want all of your main armaments to deal damage at the same ranges; you also want the same ballistic properties if you can help it. So that UAC/10 stands out like a bit of a sore thumb, right? Bigger gun, lower range, different ballistic speed. But! There's no LT omnipod that gives me more than one ballistic hardpoint - and the UAC/10's damage falloff doesn't drop below 5 points of damage until after the UAC/5s maximum range.

My point here is, don't think that optimization is "just boat one gun." Sometimes it is, and sometimes it isn't. Optimization is making sure all of your guns fit together well, along with enough heat sinks and ammo to support them, in a chassis that can make good use of those guns. So if you really wantedI to double down on that Flea-19 LRM build, what you'd want to do is Something Like This. Still not very optimized; the Flea just doesn't have the tonnage to put out a lot of ammo - but now you can engage with it within the optimal ranges of both weapon systems without getting too close. Just make sure they're already shooting at someone else before you pop out and blast them.

[Void Angel]

PS: Oh! A word on ammo placement and CASE. Explosive (i.e. non-Gauss) ammunition has a 10% chance to go up like a fireworks display inside your 'mech when it's hit. Additionally, while engines cannot be crit, losing components containing a total of 3 or more engine slots will destroy your 'mech (this is why Inner Sphere XLs are inferior to Clantech.) So CASE on an IS XL side torso is useless, since it only prevents the explosion from spreading, and you want to put ammo in your head, since the number of times that you'll take a headshot that penetrates your armor, and rolls a crit, and destroys your ammo, and results in an ammunition explosion, but would not have destroyed your head in the first place... is rather small, compared to the odds of a torso or limb ammo explosion.

[Void Angel]

PPS: If you're looking for a Light 'mech to be a dedicated missile boat - Take This!

[martian]

torsie, on 17 December 2023 - 01:17 PM, said:

Alright! Thank you everyone for helping me . I think what I want, what I can play and what works within this game are like one those triangle thingies "Pick 2".

These small LRM boats can fun for a while, I do not think that many players have them as their main playing 'Mech. And if the enemy team deploys one or more Corsairs ...

Edited by martian, 17 December 2023 - 09:54 PM.

[torsie]

I dont want to keep reviving this, since my current attempts are going in different direction than what I was originally thinking about.

Buuut, since you are all here, could anyone help me with skills, again, please? These are my current skills and I sort of dont know where to go.
I have things for Ammunition, Missiles, Laser and Cooldown and thats I think all that benefits me from that side, since I generate no heat and I dont fight from distance.
I took that better turning, since I am super fast so I need to turn around quickly too, I think? That hard break is there only because I dont know what else to get.

That speed gives me like 8km/h is that worth taking with the acceleration?
I keep falling a lot, is reduced fall damage worth taking?

Then I took some other things I thought were kinda cool, I die super fast so reducing how long can people see me is a good idea, I think.

I might put some of the "dont know what to do with this" points and put them into consumables, so I can drone and bomb more.

I am coming for you!

Edited by torsie, 18 December 2023 - 05:13 AM.

[Void Angel]

Pfft. We are literally here to help you. Nobody's making us haunt this thread. =}

As for your skills: Range. The farther away you can be from the people you need to kill, the better off you'll be. You don't really need more agility; it's nice to have, but not as important as range. Cap acceleration isn't worth it for you (the points you could have put there are needed for ECM,) and with ECM you only need one Radar Deprivation node (because it gives a sort of chirp when people lose locks on you,) and... are you still using that TAG? TAG doesn't have a burn duration, so those nodes go to range, too.

In short, drop laser duration, all but one radar dep, cap acceleration, and all your mobility stuff. That should give you 20 points by my count. Use those to max out your range, and then use the rest to boost your consumables - you want extra strikes and UAVs. UAVs are great for situational awareness, and artillery strikes are great for punishing clustered enemies and encouraging them to move. I'd avoid the skill node that tightens your artillery for now, since it makes it cover a smaller area.

Otherwise, you're pretty much there with skill nodes. The consumable nodes are purely optional, I should point out: I think they're great, and try to have at least the first skill (so I can plug in a UAV and a Strike) but many of my builds only have that one node - depends on what I need to support my armament.

You want to keep target decay, but you don't need the mobility stuff - Fleas are already fast enough on their feet, and the range will help you more.