111 replies to this topic

[KingCobra]

TheCaptainJZ, on 20 December 2023 - 01:42 PM, said:

I'd love to see some map improvements to one map each patch. They should have been doing that the past 10 years.

Regarding Solaris City, I'm not a big fan of this map either. The idea of a cityscape is right, but I'd prefer one that has a layout more like River City or Crimson Straight as far as blocks and buildings go. We don't have that kind of pathing in Solaris city. Rather than short blocks with lots of opportunities for turns, we have long blocks or clustered buildings that you think you can walk between but can't on the outskirts, creating a lot of dead ends if you're not on the main road. It should be much more navigable. The buildings in the center are overall too large and should have tunnels or streets through them. They can have crosswalks too, to make them interconnected like you'd expect a major city. And have a few parks thrown in.

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I agree on map fixes every patch but in truth MWO does not have a dedicated Dev Team anymore MWO is more in a Managment and Recoup costs mode. Solaris was built I would imagine pleasing the Brawler Crowd which was great I personally love all MWO maps new or old with or without bugs because each can be exciting to play and yes some need a few tweaks.

[KingCobra]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 20 December 2023 - 01:40 PM, said:

Kinda moving the goal posts here don't you think? If they are played less sounds like new maps aren't really necessary to keep players playing otherwise they would be voted more often don't you think? I'm aware maps are weighted, but I don't think it is a coincidence that certain maps have such a hefty pick rate.


Every game can have that, and honestly acting like TT players were the only dedicated player base in MWO is pretty disingenuous. The real question is what does it take to grow or maintain that player base and the answer to that can vary depending on what hooks people.

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Maybe you are just pushing the knife in further to make your point of view into a momentous plot twist? Every MWO player and fan is appreciated by me as if not I would have no one left to play MWO with.

I agree on the hook, but it takes more than hooking a player to your game it's called fun excitement and retention to maintain a long-term player base. Why do you think MechWarrior2-MechWarrior4 players stayed so long? mostly it was 24 unique Leagues and a Social environment plus 500 + playable maps and 20 + game modes and the same for Co-op and Faction play.

When MechWarrior 4 was closed on the MSN Gaming Zone thanks to Steve Balmer the player base was still close to a million registered and playing players. And I think if the MSN gaming Zone would have been left alone today those players would be playing a new updated version of MechWarrior4.

Edited by KingCobra, 20 December 2023 - 02:08 PM.

[KursedVixen]

KingCobra, on 20 December 2023 - 07:35 AM, said:

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NO its a great map is is one of only a few MWO brawling maps left..

what other brawling maps are there?

I like solaris... the tight quaters are fun and few people use the outskirts...


the only bad maps right now are the ones with holes you can get stuck in....

Though i strongly dislike caustic and terra therma (The old terra therma was better) I don't see why people hate alpine though I do miss the moutain battles that use to happen....

Edited by KursedVixen, 20 December 2023 - 02:39 PM.

[RickySpanish]

KingCobra, on 20 December 2023 - 10:26 AM, said:

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There only needed to be a few that wanted the mini map game voting system and they all resided in the main office but it's there and many now want this map voting system gone from MWO I have heard it on the forums and in game many times over the last few years.

Today I finally played the map Caustic. After over a month and it's been well over two months since I have played, and terra maps the list goes on and how is this good for the game? Random map rotation would be the best option with all the maps we have in MWO old and new to be played.

And yes i agree picking your mech after knowing the map and game mode would be better that is the way it was in MechWarrior4

Wrong. Map voting was asked for a lot, so PGI added it. People who want random maps back either didn't play back then, or are wilfully ignorant of how bad a system it was.

[Mechwarrior2342356]

RickySpanish, on 20 December 2023 - 03:23 PM, said:

Wrong. Map voting was asked for a lot, so PGI added it. People who want random maps back either didn't play back then, or are wilfully ignorant of how bad a system it was.

Well, do tell. How was it bad? Come on. Qualify your statement.

Edited by the check engine light, 20 December 2023 - 04:19 PM.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

KingCobra, on 20 December 2023 - 02:05 PM, said:

I agree on the hook, but it takes more than hooking a player to your game it's called fun excitement and retention to maintain a long-term player base. Why do you think MechWarrior2-MechWarrior4 players stayed so long? mostly it was 24 unique Leagues and a Social environment plus 500 + playable maps and 20 + game modes and the same for Co-op and Faction play.

I mean I played MW4 from 2005-MWO Closed Beta (2012 or 2013?) in NBT leagues. The multitude of game modes were more or less variations of the same thing which is what we have here. IMO the biggest thing that I think is missing is a game mode for casuals who just want to drop in and drop out like the old Mission Play servers. One of the cauldron members mentioned their hopes for essentially a battlefield with mechs and that sounds like something that be more like what you are wanting. The problem is just that would be such an effort that is has to wait for MWO2 and it isn't going to please everyone either. Some people enjoy the way mechwarrior plays currently, myself included. It's how I played almost all of my time in MW4 and I don't really care for mission play or battlefield. It was fun to play for like an hour or so and then it got boring really fast (especially since those mission play servers tended to attract more mechdads compared to others, so average skill level was generally...lower).

Was it nice to have that many maps? Sure, but I don't think it was honestly necessary for the longevity. New mechs, new weapons, new equipment, new features, etc. Stuff to add depth, variety, or just make things more accessible has typically been key things.

Don't get me wrong maps, are included in that, but we are also probably talking about the 2nd most time consuming thing (1st being features) and it doesn't directly contribute to income flow either so the benefits of them can get lost in the financials, especially if you aren't continuously tuning maps (PGI struggled with map design for quite a while, I mean how many places can your mech get stuck by some small piece of terrain) because I don't know of a single game whose map was perfect on the first draft (meaning people will likely not like it initially).

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 20 December 2023 - 03:28 PM.

[Bud Crue]

KursedVixen, on 20 December 2023 - 02:35 PM, said:

what other brawling maps are there?

Besides Solaris, I'd say brawling can, more often than not, be strong on Bog, Mining, Crimson, Polar, Rubelite, Hybernal, Tourmaline (yes, you'll get hit at range for the first few minutes, but once you close in the center its often brawl heaven), and of course Frozen classic; vitric too, but its on the edge (it helps a lot if you are in a group).

Of late, I'd say Forest, Canyon, Caustic and Grim are maps where brawling can be enjoyable about 50% of the time; Hellebore is on the edge here too (if things go right it can be brawl heaven but more often than not, things don't go right), and to a lesser extent both Terra Therma and whatever the new Tera Therma is called.

For my money the worst brawling maps are River City (yes it has the buildings area and the islands (aka the park) but the overwatch positions feel way too strong given the range available these days and by the time you get into the cover of the buildings a sub 70 KPH brawler can lose as 30 percent or more of their armor), Frozen, HPG (bring back old HPG!!) and Alpine.

Edited by Bud Crue, 20 December 2023 - 03:55 PM.

[MOPCKOE]

I LOVE SOLARIS CITY, JUST USE YOUR BRAIN SNIPING **IOT

[RickySpanish]

the check engine light, on 20 December 2023 - 03:25 PM, said:

Well, do tell. How was it bad? Come on. Qualify your statement.

Are you serious? lol. Why on Earth do you think? Because players had no agency in map choice, obviously. Honestly of all the 'prove it or ur wrong!!' hills to die on, asking why not having agency vs having agency is bad is just...

[Mechwarrior2342356]

RickySpanish, on 20 December 2023 - 07:53 PM, said:

Are you serious? lol. Why on Earth do you think? Because players had no agency in map choice, obviously. Honestly of all the 'prove it or ur wrong!!' hills to die on, asking why not having agency vs having agency is bad is just...

Might as well ask where my agency goes when I want to play Bog or Crucible and get a 5 map streak of HPG instead. Getting Hellebore requires an act of Congress. Terra Therma got picked once and I figured someone somewhere lost a bet.

The voting system is a parody of agency. Popularity contests != player agency.

Edited by the check engine light, 20 December 2023 - 07:58 PM.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

the check engine light, on 20 December 2023 - 07:56 PM, said:

Might as well ask where my agency goes when I want to play Bog or Crucible and get a 5 map streak of HPG instead. Getting Hellebore requires an act of Congress. Terra Therma got picked once and I figured someone somewhere lost a bet.

That said, there is a reason no one picks them. Hellebore is a pretty awful map.

[Mechwarrior2342356]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 20 December 2023 - 08:06 PM, said:

That said, there is a reason no one picks them. Hellebore is a pretty awful map.

HPG's popularity is utterly unwarranted. I can see why Mining gets picked. I can see why Rubellite gets picked.

HPG is shite. I see nothing redeeming in it. I see nothing redeeming in getting it multiple times in a row. I would absolutely rather play Hellebore or Crucible. I like Crucible. I like Terra Therma. I will play Bog over and over again with zero complaint, and Vale can go **** itself too while we're at it.

[Saved By The Bell]

I dont want HPG in a row and hate it.

Bring back old HPG.

Edited by Saved By The Bell, 20 December 2023 - 09:52 PM.

[KursedVixen]

the check engine light, on 20 December 2023 - 08:09 PM, said:

HPG's popularity is utterly unwarranted. I can see why Mining gets picked. I can see why Rubellite gets picked.

HPG is shite. I see nothing redeeming in it. I see nothing redeeming in getting it multiple times in a row. I would absolutely rather play Hellebore or Crucible. I like Crucible. I like Terra Therma. I will play Bog over and over again with zero complaint, and Vale can go **** itself too while we're at it.

i prefer the old HPG at least then it was special to be on the wall and you didn't see assaults up there.

[MrMadguy]

Oh, I thought it would be one of that "I'm pro player. It's boring to play on good maps. I wanna play on bad one just to troll everybody else, lol".

Map/mode voting was implemented, because devs created lots of Meta maps. Map for snipers, map for LRMs, map for Lights. Problem is - some Metas are good on any map. Snipe Meta for example. But brawlers become completely useless, if map doesn't suit their Meta. So, overall players prefer balanced maps, that equally suit all Metas.

That's how voting works. Majority of players choose map/mode, that suits them. That's it. Devs decided not to remove their unpopular Meta maps and replace them with good balanced ones. There is two way to play them: 1) Majority of players agree to play on them 2) You can eventually get map you want via stacking vote multiplier. But then don't wonder, if quality of match will be bad due to some players not being able to play on this map properly. Some may even leave or suicide, if map is completely unplayable, such as Alpine Peaks.

Returning to random map rotation would be disaster. Only players, who play universal Meta, such as snipe/light Meta, want it to return.

[torsie]

Voting from more maps would be also cool, not only noone wants to play the purple trees map but it also appears on the list like once a day.
There is a survey on this forum about your favourite maps and they are divided into Large/Medium/Small, so it could always offer at least 1 of each size or 2, deciding between 6 maps instead of 4 cant be that much more of a chaos.

Or maybe if you could see those vote % before you vote? When I see a map that I dont like or dont want to play, usually the snow maps, I will vote for something like the grey map, but if I saw that its 30% on grey map and 29% for some other cool map that I didnt see for a whole day, I would vote for the less played map instead. That grey map is cool but playing it 58 times in a row gets a little bit boring .

Now when I cant see the vote, I have to vote for the more obvious choice, instead of risking it with my personal favourite and ending up with something I dont enjoy playing.

[Mechwarrior2342356]

torsie, on 21 December 2023 - 06:08 AM, said:

Voting from more maps would be also cool, not only noone wants to play the purple trees map but it also appears on the list like once a day.
There is a survey on this forum about your favourite maps and they are divided into Large/Medium/Small, so it could always offer at least 1 of each size or 2, deciding between 6 maps instead of 4 cant be that much more of a chaos.

Or maybe if you could see those vote % before you vote? When I see a map that I dont like or dont want to play, usually the snow maps, I will vote for something like the grey map, but if I saw that its 30% on grey map and 29% for some other cool map that I didnt see for a whole day, I would vote for the less played map instead. That grey map is cool but playing it 58 times in a row gets a little bit boring .

Now when I cant see the vote, I have to vote for the more obvious choice, instead of risking it with my personal favourite and ending up with something I dont enjoy playing.

HPG appears conspicuously absent from that voting list unless I overlooked it. I would likely have nominated it as a least favorite map. It is a miserable slog any way I have attempted to approach it and it's an unwelcome sight in repetition.

I'd sooner take my chances with a full RNG because at least the absurd voting system would not lead to chains of different people multiplier bombing it to the top.

[aardappelianen]

i just wish i had a way of knowing wich maps to expect, so i could actually get my mechs in there that i built for them.
as a new player getting to learn all the maps from all spawnpoints was really hard and now after of being gone and back there are still maps that i don't know very well because they are so rarely played, what makes matchmaker decide wich maps to offer ?

personally i would want to have all maps on their own que, but we need more players for that i guess

[ScrapIron Prime]

aardappelianen, on 21 December 2023 - 07:05 AM, said:

i just wish i had a way of knowing wich maps to expect, so i could actually get my mechs in there that i built for them.

This has been a long debate. Personally, I feel that selecting your mech to go along with the map would further reduce penalties for specialist mechs. On some maps your mech might reign supreme while on others it is handicapped. Eliminating random maps would completely kill off the idea of a mech that can do anything besides brawl or snipe.

[KingCobra]

RickySpanish, on 20 December 2023 - 03:23 PM, said:

Wrong. Map voting was asked for a lot, so PGI added it. People who want random maps back either didn't play back then, or are wilfully ignorant of how bad a system it was.

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It was not the random map selection everyone I knew loved it what they hated was the check box system before launching into a game it was cumbersome to say the least about it.
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Quicksilver Kalasa, on 20 December 2023 - 08:06 PM, said:

That said, there is a reason no one picks them. Hellebore is a pretty awful map.

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I think it's more about TTK Like I have said there is not a map in MWO that I hate and yes some have bugs some are tacitly more difficult but for most MWO players it's all about how fast and how many kills they can get so they pick the maps they have low TTK and fast kills.
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Quicksilver Kalasa, on 20 December 2023 - 03:27 PM, said:

I mean I played MW4 from 2005-MWO Closed Beta (2012 or 2013?) in NBT leagues. The multitude of game modes were more or less variations of the same thing which is what we have here. IMO the biggest thing that I think is missing is a game mode for casuals who just want to drop in and drop out like the old Mission Play servers. One of the cauldron members mentioned their hopes for essentially a battlefield with mechs and that sounds like something that be more like what you are wanting. The problem is just that would be such an effort that is has to wait for MWO2 and it isn't going to please everyone either. Some people enjoy the way mechwarrior plays currently, myself included. It's how I played almost all of my time in MW4 and I don't really care for mission play or battlefield. It was fun to play for like an hour or so and then it got boring really fast (especially since those mission play servers tended to attract more mechdads compared to others, so average skill level was generally...lower).

Was it nice to have that many maps? Sure, but I don't think it was honestly necessary for the longevity. New mechs, new weapons, new equipment, new features, etc. Stuff to add depth, variety, or just make things more accessible has typically been key things.

Don't get me wrong maps, are included in that, but we are also probably talking about the 2nd most time consuming thing (1st being features) and it doesn't directly contribute to income flow either so the benefits of them can get lost in the financials, especially if you aren't continuously tuning maps (PGI struggled with map design for quite a while, I mean how many places can your mech get stuck by some small piece of terrain) because I don't know of a single game whose map was perfect on the first draft (meaning people will likely not like it initially).

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But you're not the whole player base in MWO some players like a variety of game modes to keep the game interesting even with the 4 we have only 2 get picked a lot Domination and Skirmish I wait days sometimes to even play the other 2 game modes and in MW 4 they had actually 20 different game modes not variation.

To be honest I don't know why PGI did not take all the Mechwarrior4 maps and just remake some of the better ones it would have been less time consuming a project.

I played in NBT/MWL/VL/MWA/and 16 other leagues all of its life playing on GB=GhostBear.DC=Draconis Combine and CYT=Clan Coyote we had a blast. There is still one old Buddie and teammate of mine playing MWO out of 300-1000 old players I knew when we all started MWO .

I would still recommend they go Random map rotation add all the old and new MWO maps into it and make game modes random as well then work on a bigger verity of new game modes. to enhance MWO game play.