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Reintroduce Loss Of Destroyed Components And Need To Replace Them After Matches


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#1 JumpingHunter

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Posted 25 December 2023 - 12:56 AM

I know for a fact that at some point in beta stages of MWO components that were lost in the fight (component destruction or total mech destruction) were removed from player's inventory, which left him needing to replace them in his now underweight mech chassis after every match. As far as i know this didnt exist in early stages of MWO, but i believe that this would make MWO matchmaking make much more sense. Here is how in my opinion this would improve the game:

- Currently in MWO vast, nearly absolute majority of players use the most expensive and high tech equipment with best characteristics, as well as the best chassis that could fit such equpment, with peak-performing mechs usually being either Clan mechs, Omni or not, or some IS assaults and rarely heavies with crazy quirks. This leads to games feeling very stale and not entertaining, as every time you enter the match you already know what you will see there: a bunch of T-Wolves, D-Wolves, Stone Rhinos or Hellbringers, maybe sprinkled with some IS or Clan lights which can boat the highest alpha damage, or highest number of machineguns.

- By implementing loss of destroyed components, players will occasionally have to either be extremely good at piloting their mech, or would have to rely on bringing some cheaper equipment, maybe resorting to brining older IS mechs with standard engines, older weaponry and so on.

- This would lead to people both learning to use various eqipment in their mechs (instead of building their mechs as one-trick-pony with either billion SRMs or billion HAGs, for only short or only long range), and learning to recognize neutralize the biggest theats on battlefield as soon as possible, maybe that would even force some players to cooperate and use team work instead of just running around in circles near the center of the map.

- Having to replace components after dying or losing limbs and torsos will strongly hit the budget of most players, which could lead to people willingly using some cheaper alternatives instead of the most expensive gear every time, and therefore showing some love to low-tech items like Standard Heatsinks or Standard Engines, as well as cheaper weapons like Standard PPCs instead of ER, if the heat dissipation doesn't allow tanking ER weapons' heat.

- However this won't create problems with people being unable to play due to lack of ready-for-battle mechs, because trial mechs exist, and this will force players who didn't do good enough job of learning how to pilot several types of mechs or different typse of builds to do so while piloting trial mechs, in order to not lose it's next purchased mech.

- This will also encourage objective play, as winning match by capping objective will not lead to nearly as much deaths and losses as winning by wiping out OpFor would. This will lead to more interesting scenarios on different maps, and will finally break the dominance of Skirmish and Domination gamemodes, because they do encourage total wipe of enemy team, whether you play for objective or not.

- And lastly it will (hopefully) mix up some mech designs and builds on the battlefields, due to people losing mechs, matchmaking mixing teams up, people with cheaper mechs joining different teams, and therefore teams will be more diverse, with less and less super stacks of Clan Assault mechs or huge cloned light packs.

EDIT: I don't know what i was thinking when i was writing it, now it's clear to me that it will bring more harm than help, especially to the goal i inteded this system to work towards. If somebody have any ideas what would make people take more balanced and multi-task mechs instead of one-trick-ponies overstacked with only one type of weapons, i'd be glad to see them.

Edited by JumpingHunter, 26 December 2023 - 03:24 PM.


#2 martian

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Posted 25 December 2023 - 01:43 AM

Russ Bullock clearly rejected such changes a month ago.

#3 JumpingHunter

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Posted 25 December 2023 - 01:37 PM

View Postmartian, on 25 December 2023 - 01:43 AM, said:

Russ Bullock clearly rejected such changes a month ago.


Oh well, what a shame. I guess matchmaking system is really unsalvagable and irredeemable if he refuses to do any changes that would bring it to making more sense...

#4 ScrapIron Prime

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Posted 25 December 2023 - 03:37 PM

This is effectively taking things away from players. That’s never popular. They tried repair and ammo costs in beta, and since then it’s been left for campaign style games. Go play MW5 or Battletech if you want that dynamic.

#5 martian

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Posted 26 December 2023 - 12:05 AM

View PostJumpingHunter, on 25 December 2023 - 01:37 PM, said:

Oh well, what a shame. I guess matchmaking system is really unsalvagable and irredeemable if he refuses to do any changes that would bring it to making more sense...

I see no point in returning some game element that was removed a decade ago because it did not work.

#6 Ignatius Audene

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Posted 26 December 2023 - 02:41 AM

Good that it's gone.

Destroys new player XP without affecting long term players (space rich anyways). So the better players bring better equipment on top? Result in totally timid game play-> bad (even more than now). Result in less! diversity not more! Players will always bring the hardest carry meta stuff available-> to not go bankrupt. Even more salt, because part of your team will" safe" cbills in result throwing the game, because they don't understand this interaction.

#7 JumpingHunter

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Posted 26 December 2023 - 04:12 AM

View PostIgnatius Audene, on 26 December 2023 - 02:41 AM, said:

Good that it's gone.

Destroys new player XP without affecting long term players (space rich anyways). So the better players bring better equipment on top? Result in totally timid game play-> bad (even more than now). Result in less! diversity not more! Players will always bring the hardest carry meta stuff available-> to not go bankrupt. Even more salt, because part of your team will" safe" cbills in result throwing the game, because they don't understand this interaction.


I would argue that it would force poorer players to learn to cooperate in order to take down better equipped ones, but this can go both ways, and it's probably too much of a risk of making thigs worse to try, i can see it now. Though this still doesn't make current MWO situation any better, it's still quite stale most of the times.

#8 ScrapIron Prime

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Posted 26 December 2023 - 09:26 AM

View PostJumpingHunter, on 26 December 2023 - 04:12 AM, said:


I would argue that it would force poorer players to learn to cooperate in order to take down better equipped ones, but this can go both ways, and it's probably too much of a risk of making thigs worse to try, i can see it now. Though this still doesn't make current MWO situation any better, it's still quite stale most of the times.


I believe the typical interaction would go something like this:

Hi there cBill starved players! We're announcing today that we're going to make it even harder to repair and refit your mechs. We feel that this will encourage you to work harder against the players that have plenty!

<logs off and goes to play Armored Core instead>

#9 JumpingHunter

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Posted 26 December 2023 - 03:21 PM

View PostScrapIron Prime, on 26 December 2023 - 09:26 AM, said:


I believe the typical interaction would go something like this:

Hi there cBill starved players! We're announcing today that we're going to make it even harder to repair and refit your mechs. We feel that this will encourage you to work harder against the players that have plenty!

<logs off and goes to play Armored Core instead>


The more i look into it the more malicious and wrong this looks to me. I guess what i wanted to come up with is a system that would encourage people to use more balanced and multi-task mechs, instead of ones overstacked with one type of weapons, but this is clearly not how it should be done...

#10 martian

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Posted 27 December 2023 - 12:04 AM

View PostJumpingHunter, on 26 December 2023 - 03:21 PM, said:

The more i look into it the more malicious and wrong this looks to me. I guess what i wanted to come up with is a system that would encourage people to use more balanced and multi-task mechs, instead of ones overstacked with one type of weapons, but this is clearly not how it should be done...

Use any "more balanced and multi-task 'Mech" that you wish and let PSR do its job. Eventually, PSR will move you to the most appropriate Tier for you where you will meet other players who run 'Mechs similar to yours.

#11 Ignatius Audene

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Posted 27 December 2023 - 03:40 AM

View PostJumpingHunter, on 26 December 2023 - 03:21 PM, said:


The more i look into it the more malicious and wrong this looks to me. I guess what i wanted to come up with is a system that would encourage people to use more balanced and multi-task mechs, instead of ones overstacked with one type of weapons, but this is clearly not how it should be done...


It's the nature of multi player games. No matter what rules u. come up with, there will be some kind of meta and things get stale. Ignore psr is an good solution. Or if u are up to the competition try out private lobby/comp or FP /join a group... Mix things up

Edited by Ignatius Audene, 27 December 2023 - 07:58 AM.


#12 JumpingHunter

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Posted 27 December 2023 - 08:25 AM

View Postmartian, on 27 December 2023 - 12:04 AM, said:

Use any "more balanced and multi-task 'Mech" that you wish and let PSR do its job. Eventually, PSR will move you to the most appropriate Tier for you where you will meet other players who run 'Mechs similar to yours.


Oh i did, and still do. Upper Tier 3 for several years now. Mostly run something like close to stock Vindicator 1R or Hunchback 4G, occasionally a really slow urbie R80 with heavy PPC.

View PostIgnatius Audene, on 27 December 2023 - 03:40 AM, said:

It's the nature of multi player games. No matter what rules u. come up with, there will be some kind of meta and things get stale. Ignore psr is an good solution. Or if u are up to the competition try out private lobby/comp or FP /join a group... Mix things up


I ended up ignoring PSR long ago, as it is REALLY flawed and doesn't show much except for damage dealt. The meta just looks dumber and dumber the more MWO is being developed, it's devolved into just mindless massing of several weapon types, leading to really weirdly looking mechs that couldn't possibly work in TT, but prosper here, that's what continues to get under my skin.

Edited by JumpingHunter, 27 December 2023 - 08:26 AM.


#13 martian

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Posted 27 December 2023 - 08:51 AM

View PostJumpingHunter, on 27 December 2023 - 08:25 AM, said:

Oh i did, and still do. Upper Tier 3 for several years now. Mostly run something like close to stock Vindicator 1R or Hunchback 4G, occasionally a really slow urbie R80 with heavy PPC.

No problem, then.

#14 simon1812

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Posted 03 January 2024 - 12:03 PM

Melee, or/and more weapons will help


#15 ClockworkSoldier

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Posted 30 January 2024 - 05:07 PM

What we need is an expanded battlefield, that actually requires players to use a larger variety of weapons, to engage a wider range of targets, not just other mechs. It doesn't matter how many new weapons they add, or finally include melee gameplay, players will still just stack the most effective weapons, and forget about the rest.

Adding ground/aerial vehicles, infantry, and more dynamic game modes, would actually assist in helping push players away from pure meta, alpha vomit, builds, and in to more traditional military combat roles, where they need to deal with multiple types of threats. Unfortunately, this game's extremely dated engine, and dwindling dev support, means we will probably never see something of that sort, until at least another MechWarrior PvP game is created.

#16 JumpingHunter

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Posted 30 January 2024 - 11:41 PM

View PostClockworkSoldier, on 30 January 2024 - 05:07 PM, said:

What we need is an expanded battlefield, that actually requires players to use a larger variety of weapons, to engage a wider range of targets, not just other mechs. It doesn't matter how many new weapons they add, or finally include melee gameplay, players will still just stack the most effective weapons, and forget about the rest.

Adding ground/aerial vehicles, infantry, and more dynamic game modes, would actually assist in helping push players away from pure meta, alpha vomit, builds, and in to more traditional military combat roles, where they need to deal with multiple types of threats. Unfortunately, this game's extremely dated engine, and dwindling dev support, means we will probably never see something of that sort, until at least another MechWarrior PvP game is created.


Can't agree more.

Edited by JumpingHunter, 30 January 2024 - 11:41 PM.






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