112 replies to this topic

[MechMaster059]

Last week in the "Jan 2024 Patch Leaks And Rumors" thread, I challenged a 95% assault pilot to answer some game balance and design questions. He didn't even attempt to answer them, which I knew he wouldn't.

Now I pose these questions to the MWO community. Do you know better than a Tier 1 Gold Champ how to identify problems and balancing the game? Answer these questions to find out:

1. There is a dead node in the skill tree, a node that is nearly useless no matter what mech or build. Can you guess which node?

2. There is a cluster of nodes in the skill tree that give barely/no benefit to light mechs after the 1st point in the group. Can you guess which group?

3. What do the following numbers refer to and do they indicate any kind of problem:
(3.75x120)/(1.70x0.5) = 529.4; (1.70/3.75) = 0.453
(3.75x150)/(2.00x0.5) = 562.5; (2.00/3.75) = 0.533
(4.30x200)/(1.70x1.0) = 505.8; (1.70/4.30) = 0.395
(4.40x200)/(2.25x1.0) = 391.1; (2.25/4.40) = 0.511
(5.65x220)/(2.55x2.0) = 243.7; (2.55/5.65) = 0.451

4. There is a major flaw in how assault mechs move that I discovered when playing the CGR-N7. This flaw significantly reduces the usefulness of the Hard Break skill for assaults. Can you describe this flaw?

=====

You only get once chance to answer the questions. The questions are scored as follows:

Question 1: 1 point
Question 2: 1 point
Question 3: 2½ points
½ point for identifying what the numbers refer to.
½ point for identifying a minor problem.
½ point for identifying a medium problem.
1 point for identifying a major problem.
Question 4: 2½ points (the hardest question)

=====

Title you receive based upon score:
0 points: -
½-1 point: More knowledgeable than a 95% assault pilot
1½-2 points: Someone with a clue
2½-3 points: Authorized to make balance suggestions
3½-4½ points: Priority forum poster
5-6½ points: Lead forum poster
7 points: Lead Cauldron Game Balancer

=====

Current high scores:

1. Luminios with 7 points. The new Lead Cauldron Game Balancer!

2. Navid A1 with ½ a point.
(You correctly identified what the numbers in #3 referred to so you get ½ a point but since you were unable to deduce what the number mean I couldn't award you any more points. You are more knowledgeable than a 95% assault pilot.)

=====

Question Hints:

1. 60 seconds
2. 83.3 kph
3. 5, 4, 3, 2, 1
4. 66%

Edited by MechMaster059, 22 January 2024 - 03:50 PM.

[Heavy Money]

Oh wow if i know all that trivia will I make it to t3 too?

[MechMaster059]

Heavy Money, on 21 January 2024 - 02:42 PM, said:

Oh wow if i know all that trivia will I make it to t3 too?

"Trivia"

You get 0 points.

[Heavy Money]

MechMaster059, on 21 January 2024 - 02:51 PM, said:

"Trivia"

You get 0 points.

Oh no I guess I'm busted back to t5! Who knew that ability to win in this game was tied to ones ability to analyze jump jet stats? If only I hadn't put all my skill points into flamer ventilation and target retention, I'd be as good as you!

[MechMaster059]

Heavy Money, on 21 January 2024 - 02:58 PM, said:

Oh no I guess I'm busted back to t5! Who knew that ability to win in this game was tied to ones ability to analyze jump jet stats? If only I hadn't put all my skill points into flamer ventilation and target retention, I'd be as good as you!

I think the title made it clear this thread was about game design and balance, not one's ability to win the game. That's the whole point. One's ability to win the game is a poor indicator of one's ability to make balance and design suggestions.

Edited by MechMaster059, 21 January 2024 - 03:08 PM.

[Navid A1]

MechMaster059, on 21 January 2024 - 01:49 PM, said:

stuff

Already told you these values are gibberish, and a possible indication that this is a troll post.
If it is not a troll post, then properly state your point of view so I can help you calculate values that have meaning, it might help your case better.

[Bud Crue]

MechMaster059, on 21 January 2024 - 01:49 PM, said:

Now I pose these questions to the MWO community. Do you know better than a Tier 1 Gold Champ how to identify problems and balancing the game?

No, I don't and neither do you, and likely neither do the devs, likely neither do most members of the Cauldron. Everyone's doing the best they can with a very old game running on a very old engine that very few people know how to work with let alone recognize obscure pseudo-issues based on a bunch of random numbers and hints.

[Heavy Money]

MechMaster059, on 21 January 2024 - 03:08 PM, said:

I think the title made it clear this thread was about game design and balance, not one's ability to win the game. That's the whole point. One's ability to win the game is a poor indicator of one's ability to make balance and design suggestions.

Counterpoint: One's ability to win the game is based on their understanding of the game, plus various factors like reflexes and practice. One's ability to balance the game is also based on their understanding of the game. Your error is that you misunderstand what it means to understand the game. Database trivia and knowing the specifics of why certain bad skills are bad is not the same as understanding positioning, tactics, teamwork, etc. Which is why you know trivia but are not winning, and the top winners are winning even if they don't know the trivia.

For example, you don't need to know the math of jumpjets to know how many you need to make a certain jump, or to properly jumptwist damage, or how to feather properly, etc.

[Tiy0s]

Is this a Bassault callout post?

[Stimraug]

Lmao

[MechMaster059]

Navid A1, on 21 January 2024 - 03:56 PM, said:

Already told you these values are gibberish, and a possible indication that this is a troll post. ...

Already trying to get my thread locked by claiming it's a troll post?

The numbers are most certainly not "gibberish". In fact, you can see the minor problem and the medium problem without even looking at the numbers to the right of the equal signs. You made no attempt to answer any of the other questions even though #1 and #2 are easy to answer.

I will provide answers in time but I'd first like to give the community a chance to answer them. You and the other Gold Champs clearly aren't interested in putting forth the effort to answer them.

Tiy0s, on 21 January 2024 - 04:30 PM, said:

Is this a Bassault callout post?

This is a "Are the players who claim to be most qualified to make balance suggestions actually interested in doing the work necessary to make thoughtful balance suggestions or do they just want to make fun of tier rating?" post.

Edited by MechMaster059, 21 January 2024 - 04:56 PM.

[Davegt27]

with 37,000 drops

I am only here to have fun

and I don't like to get into modifying the game

anything you bring up will get shouted down

Edited by Davegt27, 21 January 2024 - 11:20 PM.

[Rosarius]

Does Bassault pay rent for living in your head, or do you provide that space for free?

[Tiy0s]

MechMaster059, on 21 January 2024 - 04:50 PM, said:

This is a "Are the players who claim to be most qualified to make balance suggestions actually interested in doing the work necessary to make thoughtful balance suggestions or do they just want to make fun of tier rating?" post.

Bassault is not a member of the cauldron. As much time as he’s spent arguing with you about LRMs, he’s spent more time arguing with cauldron about assaults, dakka, masc, the state of light mechs, poptarts, etc. He’s a prominent community member, but not a cauldron member.

If you want, here’s a list of cauldron members:
Navid A1
Bear Claw
Krasnopesky
Dario
Bows3r
JustcallmeASH
Jay Z
Brauer
Mister Somaru
MrVaad
Myself(Tiy0s/Frost_Byte)
Pasha
Bluedevilspawn
Brios
Capn Cat
Geeram
Magic Pain Glove

These are discord names, not everyone’s ingame names. But they should be close.

[MechMaster059]

Tiy0s, on 21 January 2024 - 05:09 PM, said:

...
These are discord names, not everyone’s ingame names. But they should be close.

Thank you for that information but I seriously want to raise awareness and bring attention to the answers to these questions.

[cougurt]

MechMaster059, on 21 January 2024 - 05:22 PM, said:

Thank you for that information but I seriously want to raise awareness and bring attention to the answers to these questions.

a good way to do that would be to simply state what it is you're referring to instead of attempting to stroke your completely unwarranted ego.

[dario03]

MechMaster059, on 21 January 2024 - 05:22 PM, said:

Thank you for that information but I seriously want to raise awareness and bring attention to the answers to these questions.

Making a thread titled something like "Some issues I found and suggestions on fixes" with a list of your issues and suggestions on fixes (or a thread for each issue if unrelated) would be a better path toward that.

[MechMaster059]

cougurt, on 21 January 2024 - 05:27 PM, said:

a good way to do that would be to simply state what it is you're referring to instead of attempting to stroke your completely unwarranted ego.

So not interested in answering the questions. The answer to #2 is brain-dead easy.

[Floof Yeen]

MechMaster059, on 21 January 2024 - 05:22 PM, said:

Thank you for that information but I seriously want to raise awareness and bring attention to the answers to these questions.

you could just like. you know, stop zorking it (and by it, I mean your ego), and just post the answers so we can actually have a discussion about your actual balance ideas instead of making this a bludgeoning contest of whose intellect is superior.
just post the answers for the questions, what you would change, and your reasoning, and let the fruit of your engineering ability speak for itself (and allow others to speak with you on a more reasonable level, and actually engage with your ideas).

[foamyesque]

Quite frankly one of your questions is unintelligble gibberish that only makes sense to you because you wrote it. You won't be able to answer it yourself in a years time.

That said the most useless skill nodes - now that Hill Climb has been patched to work instead of the reverse -- are easily Speed Retention, because the only machines where it would make a meaningful change -- lights and fast mediums -- are kneecapped by the speed cap anyway.

Edited by foamyesque, 21 January 2024 - 10:00 PM.