68 replies to this topic

[F1oyd]

I am curious if there is a majority (or a vocal minority) of players who want the soup q to stay like it is or if more ppl would like to go back to the old solo q.

In my opinion groups in solo q hurt the game experience for everyone except the few guys on the strongest group (aka farming group). Since ppl of similar level tend to team up you have very weak groups and you have very strong groups. Both hurt the experience of all the rest of players caught up in a match with them imo.

Personally i would like to wait longer to have a fair chance to get a match without a predetermined output than to get stuck with a match which is decided before it starts.

This is just my opinion and my observations. I do not wanna convince anybody nor wanna upset anybody and i am ok with it if you having a different one. If the majority of us players wants it like it is i am fine with it. Pls stay moderate and discuss appropriately.

edit: just an idea...maybe we could have the event q as an permanent alternative to the soup q. Either as a pure solo q as 8vs 8 for example or as an permanet soup q with a mix of 1-4 plus solos with quickplay as a pure solo q.

Edited by F1oyd, 02 February 2024 - 02:09 AM.

[Alexander of Macedon]

It already can take 5+ minutes to get into a soup queue match during primetime hours. We peak at ~1,100 concurrent on steam plus however many use the standalone launcher. The population just plain isn't there for split queues, it's why Solaris was DOA and Faction Play is on life support.

[Moadebe]

Alexander of Macedon, on 02 February 2024 - 05:32 AM, said:

It already can take 5+ minutes to get into a soup queue match during primetime hours. We peak at ~1,100 concurrent on steam plus however many use the standalone launcher. The population just plain isn't there for split queues, it's why Solaris was DOA and Faction Play is on life support.

All of what he said.

Id also like to point out that to fix it now would require dev time and work on the matchmaking code. Which we don't have.

It sucks yes, but this is the reality.

[Meep Meep]

Bring back 12 and 8 man along with 4 man. If you are in a 4, 8 or 12 man you sit in queue until enough groups can fill out a match. No restrictions for 2 and 3 mans.

[KingCobra]

Bring back Solo Quick play que with no team groups and make a team group 8v8 game mode for them we have enough players to do it and PGI only has to do minimal scripting to make it happen plus you could fix the 8v8 mm to drop teams just as fast as QP with 8v8-4v4 launcher system.

Some team groups don't play well with Solo/casual players and there need to feed results in farming/exploiting/and seal clubbing lesser skilled players and its getting worse with sync dropping as well.

Edited by KingCobra, 02 February 2024 - 06:55 AM.

[Besh]

Proposals for Hybrid MatchMaking - match groups with groups predominantly and only pull solos in if theres no Match after a given time, and vice versa - have been brought forward as far as I know . And I think that would be the best Solution - as it would not split buckets .

Things can be done . We just need to convince PGI we want them done. That wont happen if we accept what is as unchangeable . The Problem of "to small a playerbase" wont go away if we silently comply to keeping systems in place which are detrimental to player retention .

Edited by Besh, 02 February 2024 - 07:34 AM.

[1453 R]

F1oyd, on 02 February 2024 - 02:01 AM, said:

I am curious if there is a majority (or a vocal minority) of players who want the soup q to stay like it is or if more ppl would like to go back to the old solo q.

There is a screeching horrible minority of players that desire to make it a bannable offense to have friends in MWO, yes.

F1oyd, on 02 February 2024 - 02:01 AM, said:

In my opinion groups in solo q hurt the game experience for everyone except the few guys on the strongest group (aka farming group). Since ppl of similar level tend to team up you have very weak groups and you have very strong groups. Both hurt the experience of all the rest of players caught up in a match with them imo.

It's actually quite the opposite. Most groups of players are just regular buddies dropping in much the same 'Mechs/loadouts they'd otherwise drop with; their impact on the match is indistinguishable from an equivalent number of ungrouped players. Confirmation bias tells people that seeing two like tags on a match that went 12-3 is obviously why that match went that way, without anyone ever remembering that matches go that way regardless of the presence of like tags because MWO is a swingy, snowball-prone game in the first place. Your experience will not change if you banish friendship from MWO, save that the game will likely be shut down by this time next year.

F1oyd, on 02 February 2024 - 02:01 AM, said:

Personally i would like to wait longer to have a fair chance to get a match without a predetermined output than to get stuck with a match which is decided before it starts.

Punishment Queue (i.e. the 'Group Only' queue you're proposing) is not 'wait longer'. It's "you can queue at five P.M., stay in the queue until ten P.M., and then cancel the queue and go to bed without ever having found one single match in five continuous hours of trying.

F1oyd, on 02 February 2024 - 02:01 AM, said:

This is just my opinion and my observations. I do not wanna convince anybody nor wanna upset anybody and i am ok with it if you having a different one. If the majority of us players wants it like it is i am fine with it. Pls stay moderate and discuss appropriately.

People have been trying to banish friendship from MWO for basically the entire time the game has existed. It is the sorest of sore subjects. Solos think (baselessly) that People With Friends are just trying to eat them for easy match score, and People With Friends think (correctly, as it turns out) that solos mostly want anyone with a non-empty friends list to uninstall the game.

F1oyd, on 02 February 2024 - 02:01 AM, said:

edit: just an idea...maybe we could have the event q as an permanent alternative to the soup q. Either as a pure solo q as 8vs 8 for example or as an permanet soup q with a mix of 1-4 plus solos with quickplay as a pure solo q.

No. The Event Queue is for Events, doing funky rules remixes that keep the game something vaguely resembling fresh. It's also, usually, a solo-only queue as you wish it to be, which often means People With Friends cannot participate in it because dropping as a bunch of solos in Event Queue when you're all hanging out to play MWO together is A.) ******* stupid, and B.) considered MOST EGREGIOUS CHEATING since that's called "sync dropping" and not "a bunch of folks all wanting to try the funky Event Queue thing together but having to drop solo because Piranha keeps having to pander to the salty crankjobs who hate friends."

[Curccu]

Alexander of Macedon, on 02 February 2024 - 05:32 AM, said:

It already can take 5+ minutes to get into a soup queue match during primetime hours. We peak at ~1,100 concurrent on steam plus however many use the standalone launcher. The population just plain isn't there for split queues, it's why Solaris was DOA and Faction Play is on life support.

After Solaris was released next season this game had 40k players, So no Solaris didn't die because lack of players willing to try it. It died because of bad design and PGIs unwillingness to fix it.

[Weeny Machine]

F1oyd, on 02 February 2024 - 02:01 AM, said:

I am curious if there is a majority (or a vocal minority) of players who want the soup q to stay like it is or if more ppl would like to go back to the old solo q.

In my opinion groups in solo q hurt the game experience for everyone except the few guys on the strongest group (aka farming group). Since ppl of similar level tend to team up you have very weak groups and you have very strong groups. Both hurt the experience of all the rest of players caught up in a match with them imo.

Personally i would like to wait longer to have a fair chance to get a match without a predetermined output than to get stuck with a match which is decided before it starts.

This is just my opinion and my observations. I do not wanna convince anybody nor wanna upset anybody and i am ok with it if you having a different one. If the majority of us players wants it like it is i am fine with it. Pls stay moderate and discuss appropriately.

edit: just an idea...maybe we could have the event q as an permanent alternative to the soup q. Either as a pure solo q as 8vs 8 for example or as an permanet soup q with a mix of 1-4 plus solos with quickplay as a pure solo q.

A solo queue would be great. Maybe with 2 things:
1. put the teams in a 8 vs 8 queue so the chances for matches are higher
2. include a valve that when not enough people they get channeled into solo queue (maybe as solos?)

I know you enjoy seal clubbing but at least the solo queue would be the place what it was before groups: a chaotic fun place where you didn't need to play meta builds and mechs to have fun

[1453 R]

Weeny Machine, on 02 February 2024 - 08:20 AM, said:

A solo queue would be great. Maybe with 2 things:
1. put the teams in a 8 vs 8 queue so the chances for matches are higher

Because cutting four players out of each side would somehow reduce the wait time from "multiple hours" to "acceptable"?

Weeny Machine, on 02 February 2024 - 08:20 AM, said:

2. include a valve that when not enough people they get channeled into solo queue (maybe as solos?)

"Whoops! The timer timed out! I know you all queued up together specifically to play together, but we're gonna forcibly kill your group now and drop you into random pug games without your buddies! ...wait, why are you leaving and playing something else?! What do you MEAN you wanted to play with your friends when you queued with your friends?! We got you a game, isn't that good enough?! Stop, no, don't uninstall! We need you to spend moooneeeeeyyyy!!!!!........"

Weeny Machine, on 02 February 2024 - 08:20 AM, said:

I know you enjoy seal clubbing but at least the solo queue would be the place what it was before groups: a chaotic fun place where you didn't need to play meta builds and mechs to have fun

Has it ever occurred to you that the presence of random buddy groups in your games has no impact on those games beyond what any other regular set of players would have had? If you want to drop into a game with the Crusty Mechdad Tabletop Special because that's what brings you joy, go for it. Contrary to the beliefs of entitled crankjobs, the overwhelming majority of grouped-up players have no desire for seal clubbing. They just want to play MWO with their friends. Any proposal which amounts to "you can no longer play MWO with your friends" - and yes, "break groups up and force them to drop solo if there's not enough groups to make a game" is equivalent to "you cannot play with your friends" - means people with friends no longer really have any reason to play MWO.

[CFC Conky]

Hello all,

Yup, having groups in QP can skew the results, but is it a problem that requires fixing?

Perhaps it's just the luck of the draw, but I'm not seeing groups consistently dominating matches these days. Sure, every now and then there will be a team from a well-known unit on the other side which often results in a short match but it can also happen when there's just one player from a unit like EMP or JGx on the opfor. I play ~120 matches per month and it doesn't happen very often. I've also been in plenty of matches where my team has a four-man group in it and said group performs abysmally.

In my opinion, coordinated play is what dominates matches and this is not exclusively a group thing.

Good hunting,
CFC Conky

Edited by CFC Conky, 02 February 2024 - 09:57 AM.

[ScrapIron Prime]

I"m on the "population too low" bandwagon too. Dividing the player base into smaller buckets would increase wait time.

[pbiggz]

Its not happening. It can't happen. This has been litigated over and over again and eventually it comes down to a clash of reality and dogma, that reality being, we cannot split the queues with a playerbase this small and the dogma being some people think they'll win more if they soft ban anyone who has friends.

[KingCobra]

pbiggz, on 02 February 2024 - 11:24 AM, said:

Its not happening. It can't happen. This has been litigated over and over again and eventually it comes down to a clash of reality and dogma, that reality being, we cannot split the queues with a playerbase this small and the dogma being some people think they'll win more if they soft ban anyone who has friends.

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Your totally wrong friend it's not about wins for most solo/casual players it's about fun and playing stompy robots do you even know how much damage just 1 4-man farming team does to a game or many games a night in solo quick play? I doubt you play enough to even notice what's going on in MWO players are not oblivious to what's going on when they notice these team group players farming ETC., they just drop the game and go find another clean game I have seen 3/4 of a team just abandon the game over this issue.

So how does leaving team groups in solo quick play help MWO? It does not help plus even with team groups pulled out of solo quick play they can play solo still in the game mode like it was before they were placed them into solo quick play like many have said if they want to play in large team groups go play faction play game mode and let PGI fix faction play that is where these renegade team groups belong not killing off the good solo/casual players that are just having fun.

[pattonesque]

KingCobra, on 02 February 2024 - 11:43 AM, said:

I doubt you play enough to even notice what's going on in MWO players are not oblivious to what's going on when they notice these team group players farming ETC., they just drop the game and go find another clean game I have seen 3/4 of a team just abandon the game over this issue.

aside from the issue with stomps I would argue that most MWO players are super oblivious and may not even have their monitors on

[KingCobra]

pattonesque, on 02 February 2024 - 11:46 AM, said:

aside from the issue with stomps I would argue that most MWO players are super oblivious and may not even have their monitors on

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WOW just WOW insulting most players in MWO does not help plus those you're talking about are good players that have stayed with MWO and guess what there not oblivious to what's going on in MWO they just choose to ignore those that are in truth ruining the game and their fun by ejecting from games with these kinds of players present just go play chat and ask them.

[pattonesque]

KingCobra, on 02 February 2024 - 11:52 AM, said:

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WOW just WOW insulting most players in MWO does not help plus those you're talking about are good players that have stayed with MWO and guess what there not oblivious to what's going on in MWO they just choose to ignore those that are in truth ruining the game and their fun by ejecting from games with these kinds of players present just go play chat and ask them.

no I mean these are folks who you can shoot in the back three or four times before it occurs to them they should turn around. this is a huge percentage of the playerbase lol

[1453 R]

I mean, Pattonesque's also kinda right, hehe. The Way of the Spud is real. Besides, if somebody's really just out there for ultra-casual, let's-just-drop-and-have-fun-doing-our-best Stompy Robit Romps? They won't care about "getting farmed", as you put it. One sour game is one sour game, that sort of player just shrugs it off and moves on to the next one. The ones who care about "getting farmed" are the ones who watch their stats and make a big deal about how they're way better than the average spud and like to claim they're The Best because they could easily win with meta 'Mechs if they wanted to but it's more fun to play 'fun' fits.

Or, namely, the people who think they'll win more if they soft ban anyone with friends.

[pbiggz]

KingCobra, on 02 February 2024 - 11:43 AM, said:

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Your totally wrong friend it's not about wins for most solo/casual players

No im not.

KingCobra, on 02 February 2024 - 11:43 AM, said:

it's about fun and playing stompy robots do you even know how much damage just 1 4-man farming team does to a game or many games a night in solo quick play? I doubt you play enough to even notice what's going on in MWO players are not oblivious to what's going on when they notice these team group players farming ETC., they just drop the game and go find another clean game I have seen 3/4 of a team just abandon the game over this issue.

So how does leaving team groups in solo quick play help MWO? It does not help plus even with team groups pulled out of solo quick play they can play solo still in the game mode like it was before they were placed them into solo quick play like many have said if they want to play in large team groups go play faction play game mode and let PGI fix faction play that is where these renegade team groups belong not killing off the good solo/casual players that are just having fun.

Thats all very nice. We can't divide up the queue. Full stop. It doesn't really matter what anyone thinks, that's an inconvenient reality.

[Alexander of Macedon]

Curccu, on 02 February 2024 - 07:37 AM, said:

After Solaris was released next season this game had 40k players, So no Solaris didn't die because lack of players willing to try it. It died because of bad design and PGIs unwillingness to fix it.

1. MWO never had 40k concurrent to my knowledge. I'm not talking "total active in a season", I'm talking "total active in a 24h period", which is what's relevant to queue times. S7 did spike us slightly, up to a peak of ~2500 concurrent after the release and slightly higher averages for the next 2-3 months, but in terms of long-term benefit it did nothing for player retention and concurrent counts continued to freefall until late 2020, where they stabilized at the ~550 avg/1000 peak that we still see today.

2. S7 also died because it was a bad idea implemented poorly, certainly. But I distinctly remember having trouble getting matches even on the week it launched because even with the population spike most people were still playing QP.