68 replies to this topic

[crazytimes]

I'd rather groups than long wait times.

Vocal minorities should never dictate community direction..

[Besh]

crazytimes, on 02 February 2024 - 01:44 PM, said:

I'd rather groups than long wait times.

Vocal minorities should never dictate community direction..

How exactly do you know its a "vocal minority" advocating for doing something to MM so that Groups play mostly Groups, and Solos play mostly Solos ? How exactly do you know hybrid matchmaking would result in "hours long wait times" ( as someone in this thread alleges) ?

[1453 R]

Besh, on 02 February 2024 - 01:49 PM, said:

How exactly do you know its a "vocal minority" advocating for doing something to MM so that Groups play mostly Groups, and Solos play mostly Solos ? How exactly do you know hybrid matchmaking would result in "hours long wait times" ( as someone in this thread alleges) ?

How exactly do you know so-called "Hybrid Matchmaking" won't result in hours-long queue times for anyone with friends? You seem weirdly confident about that considering you're willing to stake the continued presence of every single player with even one friend on the fact that this bizarre, nonsensical splitting-without-splitting will somehow have no negative effect whatsoever on grouped players. You're wagering the future of the game on the idea that you can somehow have your cake and eat it too, and we all know how those schemes tend to fall out.

[Bud Crue]

The only people that wanted soup queue were PGI and a handful of others. Once 12v12 GQ became untenable, the majority of group players wanted 8v8 GQ but with the ability of solo players being able to opt in if they wanted. Paul stated that there was insufficient support for this, because solo players did not want to drop with groups. So, instead of allowing solo players the option to drop with groups in the group queue, they killed GQ entirely and gave us the current solo queue wherein solo players would be forced to drop with groups (albeit limited to groups of 4). If that strikes you as absurd, you are not alone.

Alas, as much as I hated what they did at the time, now I don't see an alternative. We have the population to support the occasional split queue, in very limited circumstances (e.g., weekend faction drops apparently still have some success, event queue is a thing, etc.), but I can't see how permanently splitting the queues between groups and solos would have any impact other than to make wait times unacceptable to players of either queue. The vocal minority, majority or whatever may want to change this status quo, but it isn't going to happen. You or I may not like it, but this game, and the current soup queue that most of us use to play it, needs both groups and solos, and making it more difficult for either (or worse, both) to play the game will just drive population loss even more. Them's the breaks.

Edited by Bud Crue, 02 February 2024 - 02:55 PM.

[Weeny Machine]

CFC Conky, on 02 February 2024 - 09:29 AM, said:

Hello all,

Yup, having groups in QP can skew the results, but is it a problem that requires fixing?

Perhaps I am just unlucky but it happens more or less on a regular basis that I have the same premade in my games - on my side or the opposite side. And rolling and being rolled offers for me the same amount of fun: hardly to none.

After 2 months off I decided to give it a try. First match, premade and a roll. I just quit right afterward again.

I can't speak for others but I doubt I am the only one who just more or less throws the towel. Premades' seal clubbing drove out solos from FW (which was ok because it was intended to be meant for organized play) but why you then put groups into the 12 vs 12 casual queue...I am sorry but this is just history repeating itself.

Edited by Weeny Machine, 02 February 2024 - 03:03 PM.

[Meep Meep]

Weeny Machine, on 02 February 2024 - 03:00 PM, said:

Perhaps I am just unlucky but it happens more or less on a regular basis that I have the same premade in my games - on my side or the opposite side. And rolling and being rolled offers for me the same amount of fun: hardly to none.

If you keep getting the same premades in your drops then either check twitch to see if one of them is streaming and then drop after they get a match. If none are streaming then after a match with them wait a few minutes before you go back into the queue and you should now be out of sync with them depending on pop levels. Late night eastern US tends to have a high amount of guds and a low pop so even then you might not be able to dodge them.

[Ihlrath]

While we're at it, bring back Crystal Pepsi!

Sorry man, I just don't think there's high enough pop for it.

[crazytimes]

Besh, on 02 February 2024 - 01:49 PM, said:

How exactly do you know its a "vocal minority" advocating for doing something to MM so that Groups play mostly Groups, and Solos play mostly Solos ? How exactly do you know hybrid matchmaking would result in "hours long wait times" ( as someone in this thread alleges) ?

Because there's maybe 10 regular posters with the same bad takes in all these endless repeats of the same topics. Soup queue, LRMs, match making..same people, same posts. Again and again.

All of the discussion elsewhere often just start with a screenshot of this forum with whatever bad take has been reposted. All of the people that fall into the trap of arguing with that small group of people end up with permanent forum bans, so there's no one to argue with those terrible takes.

Thankfully, the people making actual changes are not doing it from input in this forum by those people.

[CFC Conky]

Weeny Machine, on 02 February 2024 - 03:00 PM, said:

Perhaps I am just unlucky but it happens more or less on a regular basis that I have the same premade in my games - on my side or the opposite side. And rolling and being rolled offers for me the same amount of fun: hardly to none.

After 2 months off I decided to give it a try. First match, premade and a roll. I just quit right afterward again.

I can't speak for others but I doubt I am the only one who just more or less throws the towel. Premades' seal clubbing drove out solos from FW (which was ok because it was intended to be meant for organized play) but why you then put groups into the 12 vs 12 casual queue...I am sorry but this is just history repeating itself.

It's unfortunate that you have experienced this, I get bad runs from time to time, bad months even, especially when I limit myself to lights or mediums. I'm running mediums this month, unskilled ones at that, and it's been a brutal day.

Good hunting,
CFC Conky

[SolCrusher]

I don't really care about groups in the solo queue. What I care about is map selection and the completely crap voting system that seems to only select a few different maps and that's it.

[RickySpanish]

Ideally EQ would run more often without grouping allowed. That's about the best we can hope for. Unfortunately EQ has no match maker, but the population is too small to split the queues.

[syritoh]

hoo boy if the game disabled group queue then i would just stop playing quick play altogether and honestly probably uninstall

[1453 R]

syritoh, on 02 February 2024 - 09:39 PM, said:

hoo boy if the game disabled group queue then i would just stop playing quick play altogether and honestly probably uninstall

It's funny how none of the Solo Only Queue Forever folks ever seem to believe anyone when we say that disabling the ability to reasonably play as a group in MWO would be the end of our participation in the game. They all always come back with "why do you keep saying you'll wait forever for a fair fight?!" as if we don't have naked, uncontestable evidence that there is simply not enough population for a group-only queue to work. As if that was not, in fact, the exact reason the group queue went away in the first place.

They make disingenuous, knowingly false arguments in pursuit of their ban on having friends, and somehow they think the strength of casual solos will keep "their" game running after they get rid of everyone who's ever dropped non-solo. Like, seriously...what do they actually think will happen when a significant chunk of the coremost customer base for this extremely niche ten-year-old game that routinely sits at three digit concurrency most days is told "you're not welcome here anymore"?

[Weeny Machine]

Meep Meep, on 02 February 2024 - 03:04 PM, said:

If you keep getting the same premades in your drops then either check twitch to see if one of them is streaming and then drop after they get a match. If none are streaming then after a match with them wait a few minutes before you go back into the queue and you should now be out of sync with them depending on pop levels. Late night eastern US tends to have a high amount of guds and a low pop so even then you might not be able to dodge them.

I waited a couple of minutes, That's why I said: I was unlucky Nevermind, though, I will give it a swing when the new weapon systems arrive. I have a big pile of shame of games which I should play

CFC Conky, on 02 February 2024 - 06:58 PM, said:

It's unfortunate that you have experienced this, I get bad runs from time to time, bad months even, especially when I limit myself to lights or mediums. I'm running mediums this month, unskilled ones at that, and it's been a brutal day.

Good hunting,
CFC Conky

Guiess what I mostly play

1453 R, on 03 February 2024 - 08:26 AM, said:

It's funny how none of the Solo Only Queue Forever folks ever seem to believe anyone when we say that disabling the ability to reasonably play as a group in MWO would be the end of our participation in the game. They all always come back with "why do you keep saying you'll wait forever for a fair fight?!" as if we don't have naked, uncontestable evidence that there is simply not enough population for a group-only queue to work. As if that was not, in fact, the exact reason the group queue went away in the first place.

They make disingenuous, knowingly false arguments in pursuit of their ban on having friends, and somehow they think the strength of casual solos will keep "their" game running after they get rid of everyone who's ever dropped non-solo. Like, seriously...what do they actually think will happen when a significant chunk of the coremost customer base for this extremely niche ten-year-old game that routinely sits at three digit concurrency most days is told "you're not welcome here anymore"?

1. That's why people made suggestions like 8vs8 for groups with a valve so that they can be released as groups or singles into the solo queue if not enough groups are in the pipe
Reaction: me wants play friends *stomp, stomp*

2. As for your question. Let me answer with a counter question: do you believe that groups seal clubbing singles over and over won't be the end of the game because people just have enough of it - especially the smaller the player pool gets because you face teams more frequently?
And seriously "ban on having friends"...that is so pathetic and belongs into a drama series. For me, you sounds like someone from earlier pvp games I played where this was the most used argument when premades wanted to keep seal clubbing pugs and farm them. Guess what happened after the 2 queues were separated? The group queue was dead because "playing with friends" seemed suddenly not that important anymore. Normally, I give people the benefit of the doubt but in this case I call it hypocrisy

However, the discussion is actually moot for sure because they won't change anything. Also, because it is an open secret that the majority of the cauldron actually enjoys some good seal clubbing.

Edited by Weeny Machine, 03 February 2024 - 12:58 PM.

[Davegt27]

why did GQ end ??

[1453 R]

Weeny Machine, on 03 February 2024 - 12:46 PM, said:

...
2. As for your question. Let me answer with a counter question: do you believe that groups seal clubbing singles over and over won't be the end of the game because people just have enough of it - especially the smaller the player pool gets because you face teams more frequently?
...

I've explained this, more than once. But here, have it again. You want to know what I believe?

I believe you're wrong.

I believe you're seeing like tags, experiencing blowouts, and assuming causation rather than simple correlation. I believe the strong majority of grouped-up players are just ordinary players running ordinary stuff with their buddies, rather than the Evil Cheating Baby-Eating Seal Devouring Turbosweat Tryhards you keep accusing every last single one of them of being. I believe that you, and all the other angry bitter Solo Only Forever people, have INCORRECTLY IDENTIFIED your issue, and if you persist in trying to solve an issue that is not, in fact, any sort of real issue at all? You will cause irrecoverable damage to the game and be directly responsible for its final demise.

Grouped players aren't the goddamned problem. They've NEVER been the goddamned problem. You all are just using them as your scapegoat for your own suck and your own off nights, and your way of explaining away the fact that MWO is a swingy game by default and there is no possible way to get rid of blowouts the way you all keep insisting Piranha try and do.

Davegt27, on 03 February 2024 - 03:53 PM, said:

why did GQ end ??

Population. The group queue's numbers had fallen low enough, and the restrictions on specific group sizes janky enough, that you could really play with your friends unless you were only dropping as a bunch of duos, and even then the wait times had gone well past excrutiuating into truly unacceptable territory. GQ died well before Piranha cut it; 'Soup Queue' was simply Piranha admitting that they didn't have the concurrency for more than one permanent queue anymore.

Edited by 1453 R, 03 February 2024 - 07:00 PM.

[Alexander of Macedon]

Besh, on 02 February 2024 - 01:49 PM, said:

How exactly do you know its a "vocal minority" advocating for doing something to MM so that Groups play mostly Groups, and Solos play mostly Solos ? How exactly do you know hybrid matchmaking would result in "hours long wait times" ( as someone in this thread alleges) ?

Because the amount of people actively advocating for it across all of the main platforms for communication are in the low double digits out of a 4-digit active playerbase.

Because when we last had group queue it took longer to get matches.

Bear in mind I am a solo player. I've group dropped maybe ten times total in QP. In theory split queue would be nice if it were something like a 4v4 or 8v8 for groups and general mixed queue for solos and 2-3man groups, but the pop for that doesn't exist. I'd rather deal with the occasional sweaty 4man than sync drops or losing even more of the playerbase.

[Besh]

Alexander of Macedon, on 04 February 2024 - 03:31 AM, said:

Because the amount of people actively advocating for it across all of the main platforms for communication are in the low double digits out of a 4-digit active playerbase.

Because when we last had group queue it took longer to get matches.

Bear in mind I am a solo player. I've group dropped maybe ten times total in QP. In theory split queue would be nice if it were something like a 4v4 or 8v8 for groups and general mixed queue for solos and 2-3man groups, but the pop for that doesn't exist. I'd rather deal with the occasional sweaty 4man than sync drops or losing even more of the playerbase.

The point is, the Hybrid MM having been propsed would not split buckets . It would mean MM tries to Match Groups predominantly vs. Groups within given parameters ( like for instance time it tries to do this, which could be as little as 30 secs, 1 min, 1.5 mins, idk...), but open up to pulling in Solos if not able to . That said, some of the arguments brought up in this Thread just dont make any sense (since people wrongly think the Idea would be to in fact split the Buckets and keep Solos and Gropups apart for MM purposes - again, that is not the Idea .) .

Edited by Besh, 04 February 2024 - 04:36 AM.

[KingCobra]

1453 R, on 03 February 2024 - 07:00 PM, said:

I've explained this, more than once. But here, have it again. You want to know what I believe?

I believe you're wrong.

I believe you're seeing like tags, experiencing blowouts, and assuming causation rather than simple correlation. I believe the strong majority of grouped-up players are just ordinary players running ordinary stuff with their buddies, rather than the Evil Cheating Baby-Eating Seal Devouring Turbosweat Tryhards you keep accusing every last single one of them of being. I believe that you, and all the other angry bitter Solo Only Forever people, have INCORRECTLY IDENTIFIED your issue, and if you persist in trying to solve an issue that is not, in fact, any sort of real issue at all? You will cause irrecoverable damage to the game and be directly responsible for its final demise.

Grouped players aren't the goddamned problem. They've NEVER been the goddamned problem. You all are just using them as your scapegoat for your own suck and your own off nights, and your way of explaining away the fact that MWO is a swingy game by default and there is no possible way to get rid of blowouts the way you all keep insisting Piranha try and do.


Population. The group queue's numbers had fallen low enough, and the restrictions on specific group sizes janky enough, that you could really play with your friends unless you were only dropping as a bunch of duos, and even then the wait times had gone well past excrutiuating into truly unacceptable territory. GQ died well before Piranha cut it; 'Soup Queue' was simply Piranha admitting that they didn't have the concurrency for more than one permanent queue anymore.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total BBBBBBBBBBSSSSSS again some group players are the problem in MWO they always have been in the early days of MWO the older group of MechWarrior 2-4 players kept the renegade groups in line by basically banning them from games until they came back in line with clean games or they had them banned from MWO for a bit.

GQ died because of no regulation not population the renegade bigger teams basically farmed the smaller less skilled teams until they just left the game mode these renegade team group killed off all of our game modes with the blessing of the cauldron and some in staff which are part of the groups and part of the problem.

Now these same renegade team groups are finishing off Solo Quick Play until they alone will be left to once and seal club the last few team groups until they leave and MWO dies. these same forum players are promoting that there are not enough players to fill out 2 game modes this is a false assumption on their part and until PGI staff come on this topic and say no we don't have the player base to do solo quick play and an 8v8 game mode don't believe them.

Plus, with a different mm setting to drop 8v8-4v4 team group games a 8v8 game mode could drop groups just as fast as solo quick play does now. a Hybrid system would be a nightmare to code, and I don't think PGI would go for that plus the 8v8 game mode is already coded and could be ready to launch in a month.

There are players on this forum from these seal clubbing teams that will spread false information they will do anything to keep the farming/exploiting/seal clubbing going no matter the cost to the game or its remaining players.

Edited by KingCobra, 04 February 2024 - 06:31 AM.

[1453 R]

Besh, on 04 February 2024 - 04:32 AM, said:

The point is, the Hybrid MM having been propsed would not split buckets . It would mean MM tries to Match Groups predominantly vs. Groups within given parameters ( like for instance time it tries to do this, which could be as little as 30 secs, 1 min, 1.5 mins, idk...), but open up to pulling in Solos if not able to . That said, some of the arguments brought up in this Thread just dont make any sense (since people wrongly think the Idea would be to in fact split the Buckets and keep Solos and Gropups apart for MM purposes - again, that is not the Idea .) .

Again - why do you think the [redacted] who're staunchly opposed to any and all forms of anyone EVER playing with their friends in a queue that actually pops (i.e. see below) would tolerate this "hybrid" system whereby they still have to fight grouped players, just theoretically not quite as much? You're not changing anything. You're not fixing anything. If you're completely and utterly unwilling to tolerate anyone Having Friends prior to "hybrid Matchmaker", why in Kerensky's name would you suddenly be perfectly fine with someone Having Friends after Hybrid Matchmaker?

Speaking of...

KingCobra, on 04 February 2024 - 06:29 AM, said:

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total BBBBBBBBBBSSSSSS again some group players are the problem in MWO they always have been in the early days of MWO the older group of MechWarrior 2-4 players kept the renegade groups in line by basically banning them from games until they came back in line with clean games or they had them banned from MWO for a bit.

How in the Sam Shatner Mananahell did 'older MW2-4 players' keep so-called "renegade" groups in line? Ban them? Ban them how? We've never had any form of player banning in MWO, and thank the silicon gods for that or folks like you would've killed the population by banning everyone who beats you for any reason long ago. The paranoiac conspiracymongering is starting to get absurd here, Cobra.

KingCobra, on 04 February 2024 - 06:29 AM, said:

GQ died because of no regulation not population the renegade bigger teams basically farmed the smaller less skilled teams until they just left the game mode these renegade team group killed off all of our game modes with the blessing of the cauldron and some in staff which are part of the groups and part of the problem.

What qualifies as a "renegade team" to you? A team of players who wins games? I get that you believe anyone with friends is part of some secret evil cabal trying to control MWO from the shadows and set themselves up as unkillable Farm Gods, but why?

For rewards? Anyone left in this game by this point is sitting on a dragon's hoard of C-Bills, MC, and 'Mech bays, they have absolutely no need of accelerated match rewards.

For jollies? Pounding bads day in day out gets boring, Cobra. Nobody wants to never be challenged, and nobody wanmts nothing but an endless series of blowouts even if they're on the team doing the blowing. After all, if you want that **** you can always drop into the Testing Grounds and endlessly murder the eight poor unpiloted slobs on the map. That's as one-sided a blowout as you can get. Do you see people doing nothing but droppinbg in Test to blow up the target dummies? Nah.

Your insane paranoia is not justification for banning friendship from MWO. It is proof that "Hybrid Matchmaking" would accomplish nothing. Frankly even your siloed "8v8" mode wouldn't do what you want it to because any time two people from the same unit drop solo around the same time because they're both feeling like some low-stress derp drops and wind up in the same match coincidentally, you'll scream and rant about sync dropping and once again profess that Renegade Friend-Havers are RUINING MWO FOREVER!!1!™

KingCobra, on 04 February 2024 - 06:29 AM, said:

Now these same renegade team groups are finishing off Solo Quick Play until they alone will be left to once and seal club the last few team groups until they leave and MWO dies. these same forum players are promoting that there are not enough players to fill out 2 game modes this is a false assumption on their part and until PGI staff come on this topic and say no we don't have the player base to do solo quick play and an 8v8 game mode don't believe them.

The numbers are plain to see, Cobra. The game averages ~500 concurrency, peaking to about ~1100 during prime hours. Do you think that's enough for multiple siloed queues? Frankly I wouldn't have bought it as enough for a single queue - a game with population numbers that low should be dead, not receiving ongoing development and new content. It is a Christmas miracle the game isn't in maintenance mode and everybody with two neurons to rub together knows it. Your insane crusade to ban any form of Having Friends from MWO would drive those numbers even lower, and since we're already below the point where the game should've folded and died, do you honestly think that's a good idea?

KingCobra, on 04 February 2024 - 06:29 AM, said:

Plus, with a different mm setting to drop 8v8-4v4 team group games a 8v8 game mode could drop groups just as fast as solo quick play does now. a Hybrid system would be a nightmare to code, and I don't think PGI would go for that plus the 8v8 game mode is already coded and could be ready to launch in a month.

Friggin' siiiigh. Well, here you go Besh. Living proof, in the flesh, that your "Hybrid Matchmaker" would do nothing, because [redacted] would still exist.

KingCobra, on 04 February 2024 - 06:29 AM, said:

There are players on this forum from these seal clubbing teams that will spread false information they will do anything to keep the farming/exploiting/seal clubbing going no matter the cost to the game or its remaining players.

"Seal clubbing teams" don't ******* exist Cobra. Your tiny, fragile ego is the thing at fault here, not players having friends. Like Meep Meep said in the other thread - drop in what puts a smile on your face, run around and have fun, and to Gehenna with investing deeply in Wins and Losses.

Hell - join me in running around in the MRM-10 Locust. This thing's hilarious, and scads of fun. Is it good? **** no. Do I win games in it? If I do it sure ain't because I'm in them with an MRM-10 Locust. Is it a hellaciously entertaining literal rocket ride as you cruise at breakneck speed around the map dropping rockets in people's poop chutes like a Hot Wheels HIMARS tryin'a break four hundred damage before finally putting a foot wrong and exploding into confetti because it's a bloody Locust? Hell yes.

Do I run this stupid little Rocket League reject while dropping with my friends? You're goddamned right I do. They don't care. We're all here for a good time, and this angry explosives-laden tumbleweed? This thing is a good time.

Edited by Ekson Valdez, 04 February 2024 - 10:54 PM.