72 replies to this topic

[Ihlrath]

feeWAIVER, on 16 February 2024 - 07:56 AM, said:

Buuut guuuuuys....
Assault Dakka Boating is "the most skillful play style". Don't let anyone tell you otherwise.

The long range blue flashlight and gauss club would like a word with you, sir.

[LordNothing]

Ihlrath, on 18 February 2024 - 05:22 PM, said:

The long range blue flashlight and gauss club would like a word with you, sir.

in my opinion skill is equipping a trash mech with trash and winning. using meta is letting the mech do your job for you.

Edited by LordNothing, 19 February 2024 - 07:20 AM.

[Ihlrath]

LordNothing, on 19 February 2024 - 07:19 AM, said:

in my opinion skill is equipping a trash mech with trash and winning. using meta is letting the mech do your job for you.

Sir, there's no meta in this game and suggesting that 'all playstyles' are not viable will hurt people's feelings because facts are mean. Also you're totally correct.

[Alexander of Macedon]

Ihlrath, on 19 February 2024 - 09:26 AM, said:

Sir, there's no meta in this game and suggesting that 'all playstyles' are not viable will hurt people's feelings because facts are mean. Also you're totally correct.

It's pretty foolish to pretend that there aren't builds and playstyles which consistently produce better results, all other factors being the same.

The main obfuscating factor is that there's such a large pool of very bad players in MWO that anyone who's half-decent can semi-consistently perform well even in absolute dumpster-fire builds. A 95% Jarl's player can take a bad build into soup queue and do better than half their team, considering that even in pure T1 matches you'll still frequently have 8+ people fail to break 200 damage.

However, the same player is going to get more from an optimized build on a 'mech well-suited for it than a bracket build or a very bad chassis.

Edited by Alexander of Macedon, 19 February 2024 - 03:00 PM.

[LordNothing]

i know this just because i have spreadsheets to keep track of how certain mechs perform. of course they are full of a lot of old data that doesnt reflect the current state of balance, but with over 600 mechs its hard to keep track. s tier mechs are clearly superior with a number of hidden gems and a large number of overrated mechs. there is some divergence in grim mechs and my own stats which i can only contribute to personal play preferences. especially where i like to run fun if not performant builds in some cases. fun mechs are usually not the best scorers but there are a few im real good at using. if i was inclined to move up tier, im not, i could just run anything with brownie points > 1.25 and bubble up naturally. if i run the handfull of 2s and 3s well then thats a recipe for utter domination.

[pbiggz]

Alexander of Macedon, on 19 February 2024 - 03:00 PM, said:

It's pretty foolish to pretend that there aren't builds and playstyles which consistently produce better results, all other factors being the same.

I think he was being sarcastic.

Alexander of Macedon, on 19 February 2024 - 03:00 PM, said:

The main obfuscating factor is that there's such a large pool of very bad players in MWO that anyone who's half-decent can semi-consistently perform well even in absolute dumpster-fire builds. A 95% Jarl's player can take a bad build into soup queue and do better than half their team, considering that even in pure T1 matches you'll still frequently have 8+ people fail to break 200 damage.

However, the same player is going to get more from an optimized build on a 'mech well-suited for it than a bracket build or a very bad chassis.

MWO is one of those games where you can lose before you even get into a match. Half the game is in the mechlab. The mechlab asks the player many questions, and frankly, most players answer those questions wrong. At that point most of these cranks/mech dads are 80% of the way to a loss already. This is a difficult concept to explain to them considering they cut their teeth on 2 mercs, a game where you could load whatever jank onto whatever mech, gallop across the map at 150 and two shot things. The expect that level of consistency, something flatly impossible to expect in a pvp game of any kind, and act like its a problem with the game when someone wipes the floor with them.

[pattonesque]

pbiggz, on 22 February 2024 - 07:59 AM, said:

I think he was being sarcastic.



MWO is one of those games where you can lose before you even get into a match. Half the game is in the mechlab. The mechlab asks the player many questions, and frankly, most players answer those questions wrong. At that point most of these cranks/mech dads are 80% of the way to a loss already. This is a difficult concept to explain to them considering they cut their teeth on 2 mercs, a game where you could load whatever jank onto whatever mech, gallop across the map at 150 and two shot things. The expect that level of consistency, something flatly impossible to expect in a pvp game of any kind, and act like its a problem with the game when someone wipes the floor with them.

yeah the number of dudes who are like "well I'm gonna add an ER Large Laser to my brawling build so I can distract them at range" and don't realize what they're doing is going from a mech that can win at one range to one that can lose at two ranges is pretty significant

[Ttly]

How to nerf lights: add rear armor quirks to mechs.

Would be annoying to outflank someone and getting to bite at their rear armor only to not be rewarded with not even a crit component but hey, if they want to really stop lights from backstabbing they can always do this.

Edited by Ttly, 25 February 2024 - 10:32 PM.

[Vonbach]

Give mechs their agility back.

[Curccu]

Ttly, on 25 February 2024 - 10:28 PM, said:

How to nerf lights: add rear armor quirks to mechs.

Feel free allocating more of your armor to back if you feel need.

Vonbach, on 26 February 2024 - 04:37 AM, said:

Give mechs their agility back.

Most mechs are agile enough again since Cauldron took over.

[Ihlrath]

Curccu, on 26 February 2024 - 04:54 AM, said:

Feel free allocating more of your armor to back if you feel need.


Most mechs are agile enough again since Cauldron took over.

^^ He's right you know.

If you can't be bothered to try and protect your back and want quirks to do the job you should be thinking of... I dunno what to tell you. Mechs are agile enough, stop standing in one place with your feet glued to the bedrock and then get upset when a light shoots through the 2 points of armor you bothered to put on your back.

[Wraith 1]

LordNothing, on 19 February 2024 - 07:19 AM, said:

in my opinion skill is equipping a trash mech with trash and winning. using meta is letting the mech do your job for you.

Play how you want, but I started having a lot better understanding of the game after I stopped caring about using meta, and that carries over to piloting and designing off-meta builds. Besides, there are bad mechs that take little skill (lock-ons), good mechs that take little skill (Laservom), bad mechs that take a lot of skill (VTR-9A1 HGR) and good mechs that take a lot of skill (VGL-RI CERPPC).

[LordNothing]

Ttly, on 25 February 2024 - 10:28 PM, said:

How to nerf lights: add rear armor quirks to mechs.

Would be annoying to outflank someone and getting to bite at their rear armor only to not be rewarded with not even a crit component but hey, if they want to really stop lights from backstabbing they can always do this.

some of the fatter mechs have enough armor where they can handle a few more points moved to the rear. just enough to cover any deficiency in your reaction time (or if you have alaska ping like in my case). you just need to survive the initial attack, then you can take counter light measures from there. on the front you tend to be facing bigger alphas and whats 3 or 4 points of armor to a 60 point alpha to the front. lights have smaller alphas and you just need time to twist it off rear damage.

quirks are a good idea for certain 100 tonners.