69 replies to this topic

[FriedIV]

I'm just fed up with the uselessness of clan mechs vs all the dumb abilities you give IS mechs. Who cares if they are slow. The maps are made for brawling. Who cares if the clans have a slight range advantage. The maps are made for brawling. The stealth mechs are nutz. Maybe the lights are ok. But mediums and heavies too. What is a missile for if you cannot lock on anything, and there is so much clutter on the maps that they are practically useless anyways. The game is made for brawling. Peek shooting. Why have ATM's? The time it takes to get a lock is mud in your face. I could just suck. But, I really don't want to believe that. I spend a lot of time trying to build better mechs. And I stick to clan mechs. Call me foolish. But my better mechs are few and far between. Most of them fall apart if a flea farts. I'm just sick of the one sided view that only IS pilots pay your bills. Deaf ears.

[Rosarius]

FriedIV, on 08 March 2024 - 03:35 PM, said:

Call me foolish.

You're foolish

[w0qj]

In the BattleTech universe, both IS+Clan mech/tech are finely balanced in the end; that's the beauty of BattleTech!
Clan mechs more range and more fragile, etc.
IS mechs more durable + heat efficient, etc.

Really it boils down to MWO's interpretation and how this translates into actual gameplay...
eg: Clan tech just had a slight DHS nerf a few months ago...

[Serial Number]

Is it Staude's alt to cry for more clan mechs buffs all over again?

[pattonesque]

FriedIV, on 08 March 2024 - 03:35 PM, said:

I'm just fed up with the uselessness of clan mechs vs all the dumb abilities you give IS mechs. Who cares if they are slow. The maps are made for brawling. Who cares if the clans have a slight range advantage. The maps are made for brawling. The stealth mechs are nutz. Maybe the lights are ok. But mediums and heavies too. What is a missile for if you cannot lock on anything, and there is so much clutter on the maps that they are practically useless anyways. The game is made for brawling. Peek shooting. Why have ATM's? The time it takes to get a lock is mud in your face. I could just suck. But, I really don't want to believe that. I spend a lot of time trying to build better mechs. And I stick to clan mechs. Call me foolish. But my better mechs are few and far between. Most of them fall apart if a flea farts. I'm just sick of the one sided view that only IS pilots pay your bills. Deaf ears.

could you give an example of some of the builds you're using? Folks here may be able to suggest alternate that could work better for you.

For example, this build is quite scary at close range and is even one of the trial mechs if you wanted to give it a shot


https://mwo.nav-alph...ca29441c_MCII-2

[FriedIV]

pattonesque, on 08 March 2024 - 05:04 PM, said:

could you give an example of some of the builds you're using? Folks here may be able to suggest alternate that could work better for you.

For example, this build is quite scary at close range and is even one of the trial mechs if you wanted to give it a shot


https://mwo.nav-alph...ca29441c_MCII-2

The MKII is one of the few mechs that can be made to stand toe to toe. But again , as stated, this is brawling. Everything about MWO is tilted towards quick brawling matches. I have a couple of decent MKII's. But then I look at rankings and I see pilots with 30 kills and one death. This is not possible with an MKII. How is it possible otherwise? I don't like being forced into an assault just to level the battlefield. But the line is drawn with heavys/ And what about the binary lasers and x-pulse lasers and stealth in heavies. I don't think the haters care to open their minds cause they are IS dedicants. I knew I should not have done this when I did. But I just am furious over how fragile clan mechs are.

[pattonesque]

FriedIV, on 08 March 2024 - 06:14 PM, said:

The MKII is one of the few mechs that can be made to stand toe to toe. But again , as stated, this is brawling. Everything about MWO is tilted towards quick brawling matches. I have a couple of decent MKII's. But then I look at rankings and I see pilots with 30 kills and one death. This is not possible with an MKII. How is it possible otherwise? I don't like being forced into an assault just to level the battlefield. But the line is drawn with heavys/ And what about the binary lasers and x-pulse lasers and stealth in heavies. I don't think the haters care to open their minds cause they are IS dedicants. I knew I should not have done this when I did. But I just am furious over how fragile clan mechs are.

clan mechs are somewhat fragile but make up for it by packing overwhelming firepower. mechs like the Dire Wolf and Stone Rhino can deliver extremely devastating alphas.

Binaries and X-pulses are good on certain mechs. I believe they're getting a slight nerf in the upcoming March patch. Stealth is not particularly strong, however, as it nerfs a mech's DPS. It really only has use cases in light mechs, and even then it doesn't make them more threatening.

Maps these days make brawling viable but mid and long range play are also quite strong. What clan mechs do you prefer playing? I can suggest some builds that I find to be very impactful.

[LordNothing]

id say remove the whiners from the game. but then i realized there would be no-one left.

[Wraith 1]

Clans do great in a brawl, especially on the lighter side of things. There's no IS 2xLB20 + 4xSRM6 build that can keep up with a brawl push; and don't even get me started about the KFX-D, ACW-1, VPR-SC, etc. IS will never have anything directly comparable to any of these.

Clans do great in a poke battle. You can easily put a 65+ damage laservomit alpha on a Clan medium mech, with all the speed and agility of a medium mech, and more heat dissipation than most IS heavies.

You look like you're complaining about both brawl and poke overshadowing... lock-ons? Yeah, everything overshadows lock-ons if used well enough (cool), not an IS vs. Clan issue.

IS is pretty strong right now, but their probably best weapon is getting a big nerf next patch, and Clan is getting non-canon analogues for some of their most useful unique weapons.

[dario03]

Run some Clan brawl
Urbie IIc UAC20

Orion IIc brawl (this was a Solaris Event Queue but you get the idea)

LBx80 Rhino (coming out for cbills next patch)

MWO - Sneaky Space Rhino (youtube.com)

Or just go with a range build that still has dps and push up with that (note:hero rhino)
Aksum is a strong independent Rhino who don't need no heat quirk! (youtube.com)

[pbiggz]

[Duke Falcon]

w0qj, on 08 March 2024 - 04:15 PM, said:

In the BattleTech universe, both IS+Clan mech/tech are finely balanced in the end; that's the beauty of BattleTech!
Clan mechs more range and more fragile, etc.
IS mechs more durable + heat efficient, etc.

Really it boils down to MWO's interpretation and how this translates into actual gameplay...
eg: Clan tech just had a slight DHS nerf a few months ago...

In BTverse clan mechs are ballbusters and far from fragile glass-cannons. They are superior by any means even during the Jihad-era and later in the Dark Age (please, delete Dark Age and retcon that!).
Initially an equal fight were 3:1 ratio, three IS mechs were equal with a clan omni. IS finally brought this down to 2:1 ratio. Clan-tech however expensive, harder to maintain and manufacture (that is why even the clans had an insufficient amount of omnimechs in their toumans). And the IS tactic to gang against single targets also helped to "even out the chances" as you said.

Clan omnis were vastly downgraded for MWO because they were f**king IMBA. And because MWO not knows proper organisation-implementation (e.g.: an IS company of 12 mechs versus a clan binary of 10 mechs or the likes). It were necessary PGI made that, for balance, or just close toward some kind of a balance.
As OP mentioned the dumb quirk-system... That most probably meant to "balance" the dumb implementation of omni-pod system, considering both seems chassis-based.

But no, I use mostly clan mechs (guess why?!) and I think they are pretty good as they are now. Of course I mostly play FP where tech-mix is non-exists. In QP or EQ, mixing techs (groups or decks) could result interesting and often overwhelming combos... But no, OP, clan mechs and IS mechs currently pretty equal. And consider that clans not have "just" range advantage! How many IS mechs could carry 5 blazers and use them without blow-up? I put five heavy LLasers on my Warhammer 2c and it sings "trololololoooo!" even for a distance (~1000m with fully skilled). And omnimechs are a different story with their combine-and-smile nature. Some of the best long-range las-vomits are omnis IMHO...

Just mah two centz, girlz n boiz...

+ the new weapons would turn the table again for sure! Another half year would dedicated to balance them (I watch you my beloved, little HAGs...)...

[MarcinT1981]

Since this is a troll post, it needs to be expanded.
I think that clan mechs should be stayed, and 3xLPPPC Urbie should be banned. Same as 3xLPPC Spider etc. The account of any player who even thought of playing with, it should also be deleted

[DaniBot]

My solution is to remove 'Mechs and introduce a vast amount of all kinds of ground and air vehicles like Hovercrafts, Tanks, Figher jets and Bombers

[FriedIV]

LordNothing, on 08 March 2024 - 07:19 PM, said:

id say remove the whiners from the game. but then i realized there would be no-one left.

Yea, you are right.

[KursedVixen]

LordNothing, on 08 March 2024 - 07:19 PM, said:

id say remove the whiners from the game. but then i realized there would be no-one left.

I'd say your pushing for a lower player count than there already is.

pattonesque, on 08 March 2024 - 06:40 PM, said:

clan mechs are somewhat fragile but make up for it by packing overwhelming firepower. mechs like the Dire Wolf and Stone Rhino can deliver extremely devastating alphas.

Binaries and X-pulses are good on certain mechs. I believe they're getting a slight nerf in the upcoming March patch. Stealth is not particularly strong, however, as it nerfs a mech's DPS. It really only has use cases in light mechs, and even then it doesn't make them more threatening.

Maps these days make brawling viable but mid and long range play are also quite strong. What clan mechs do you prefer playing? I can suggest some builds that I find to be very impactful.

you forgot that almost all clan weapons take longer to do their full damage aside from the LBX and certain other exceptions.

and Clan PPC is suppose to do 15 pinpoint damage but nooo clans can't have that (Looking at you HPCC)

and now HAG does the same because IS whiny babies couldn't learn how to torso twist.

of all the newest weapons I've died at least 4 times to HAG shots... and alot more to binary lasers and x-pulse.

Now ontop of all of this they gave all IS ppcs a minimium range damage instead of being useless within 90m but the ATm is still useless within 120 meters.

Edited by KursedVixen, 09 March 2024 - 05:29 AM.

[Tarl Cabot]

Duke Falcon, on 09 March 2024 - 12:31 AM, said:

In BTverse clan mechs are ballbusters and far from fragile glass-cannons. They are superior by any means even during the Jihad-era and later in the Dark Age (please, delete Dark Age and retcon that!).
Initially an equal fight were 3:1 ratio, three IS mechs were equal with a clan omni. IS finally brought this down to 2:1 ratio. Clan-tech however expensive, harder to maintain and manufacture (that is why even the clans had an insufficient amount of omnimechs in their toumans). And the IS tactic to gang against single targets also helped to "even out the chances" as you said.

Clan Omnis were superior being able to switching out their pods, being module. On an average each omni had 4-6 different possible specific payloads that could be changed out in a few hours, whereas IS mechs were stuck with their mixed components. Lets not forget that "tabletop' balance was primarily based on Stock mechs and loadout. A majority of stock IS mechs really do suck, more so in MWO than the boardgame due to its pinpoint accuracy. And in the boardgame, the average Clan mechwarriors had much better gunnery/piloting rating, and with weapons of the similar category, Clan weapons Short/Medium/Long/Extreme (optional rules) range brackets were larger. And if one played by the Solaris rules (2.5sec/turn) vs standard BT (10secs), Weapon Delays (cooldowns) were usually shorter, not longer as with MWO.

As for the quirks, most Clan weapons had longer ranges, more damage and when introduced the lost of the 1st ST had no penalties. And said mechs could change out their omnipods then pack more weapons, heatsinks/other components took up less slots.

As for Battletech, having an insufficient supply of omni showed itself once their operation plan did not go accordingly to expectations. With a few exceptions in their history, the Clans did not have all out wars but relatively contained encounters for resources where the warriors generally did not fight to the last one standing, nor did the captured population/personnel made attempts to rebel fight back after it was over with. And that Clan Wolf batchall removed essentially removed Clan Warships from the equation.

Quote

Clan omnis were vastly downgraded for MWO because they were f**king IMBA. And because MWO not knows proper organization-implementation (e.g.: an IS company of 12 mechs versus a clan binary of 10 mechs or the likes). It were necessary PGI made that, for balance, or just close toward some kind of a balance.
As OP mentioned the dumb quirk-system... That most probably meant to "balance" the dumb implementation of omni-pod system, considering both seems chassis-based.

PGI could have, or eventually, set Clan Omni to allow 2 slotted Omni of the same mech w/different payloads, in both QP and FP. This would have built up on that feature. There is not anything PGI could really do about the pilot gunnery/piloting "rating" though . And the IS "durability" could be changed up by removing the instant death, even at zero heat, when the 1st ST is lost on an XL, while also giving the LFE, cXL and XL different and progressively higher, but non-lethal penalties, making each one unique. Then armor/structure quirks could be changed up some. But then some Clan mechs are also getting quirks that do not relate on the package/8.

/shrugs.. Okay, I will stop daydreaming, since MWO is now in maintenance mode and we will not see any major updates until MWO sunsets. And once that happens, where will people get their mech fix that does not primarily rotate around NPC?

[sneed IIC]

2.7/10 worst new post

[1453 R]

KursedVixen, on 09 March 2024 - 05:26 AM, said:

...
Now ontop of all of this they gave all IS ppcs a minimium range damage instead of being useless within 90m but the ATm is still useless within 120 meters.

So I know I left for a while, and I wasn't (and likely still am not) conversant on all the changes made while I was out.

But I'm morally certain, because I've done it myself, that ATMs now have a 60-meter deadzone, not a 120-meter deadzone. Here. I will boot up the game right now and test. I cannot take videos, but I can post comparative screenshots. Like this.

Before:


After:


Same range, same angle, same background scenery - 'Mech did not move. Range of 69m (nice), because I actually discovered running this test that the rangefinder on the R-key paperdoll data is technically not accurate. Or rather, 100% accurate to distances you don't see that don't matter. It's the distance from the center dot of your 'Mech to the center dot of the enemy 'Mech (presumably), so when that number says, for example, 62? It's accurate from anchor point to anchor point, but the actual 'Mech geometries mean that the missile launcher and the bits of the 'Mech you hit are closer than 60m and your warheads bounce with minimal damage. That is useful knowledge to have so thank you for pushing me to open the game up and test this directly.

But yes. ATMs have a deadzone of 60m now, not 120. Which everybody knew. But here's additional proof.

Edited by 1453 R, 09 March 2024 - 09:18 AM.

[1Exitar1]

Most of the maps are geared towards sniping and long range builds; not brawling. You do NOT need to be in assault in order to brawl. I love to brawl and pilot lights and mediums mostly. You just can't stand there acting like your Tyson pounding on an opponent. You need to move! For light mechs, speed is life! As soon as you stop, you're dead.