69 replies to this topic

[FriedIV]

This has been an interesting read. With , as usual a plethora of useless rants and interesting insights. I'm glad there is still a btech community attached to MWO. I started with Clan Jade Falcon on mplayer or some similar client with MW3 I believe. Lag shooting and JJ sliding was a frustrating blast. Then as now I spent a lot of time trying to squeeze the best mech out of my allowed chassis as possible. Most of the fun for me is building a better mech. But, due to the extremism of man and the limitations of the devs this is a fools game. I understand why all of the mechs have to be basically uniform. But, I don't like it. I understand why MWO maps are so small and cluttered, all matches end in face to face brawls, gotta keep those servers churning. But, I don't like it. The thing about MWO vs other fps games is the finality of death. You don't just respawn and head back where you died. Nutz. I'm sixty-two years old now. I definitely cannot keep up with twitchy fingers. I had a pilot back when, 12 year old called Ultramek, he was fast. I started this thread as a rant. I knew it was a mistake as soon as I did it. So, I deleted it, then thought about it, then rewrote it. The game is forcing us to play a certain way. And it is aggravating me. I've tried hard to follow the rules and elevate my skill rating. But watching that number go up or go down has become unfun. Yet like wise I have to ask who is a skill level 1 pilot and how are they better than me? I know my reflexes are standard. My PC is pretty good. My internet access is passable. And I work very hard to make solid clan mechs.
It's an interesting condition that I have noticed during this recent journey. Once I rebuilt my mechs and truly focused on upping my skill rating, I noticed that sometimes I would build a mech that worked. And for a hand full of matches I was invincible. But then the opposite would happen. I would go on seemingly endless loosing streaks. Not just my team but also myself. Bad choices. And the luck of a draw that put me with not so bright bulbs, where my excuses. It is scary when a team drops and wins with a 12 : 1 win. I've been on the winning and loosing side of those. And it really didn't matter if I was there or not.
I guess what I really want is insight. How is this done? I loved the osiris video that was done. That is a mean mech. But I do not think I could play it well. Especially while watching my skill rating drop right back off the scale again. So many aspects of this game go against the lights. You can't get the damage. You're running around scouting or capping, no points. A similar story can be said for mediums and even heavies. With an assault and a fairly good round of damage you will increase your skill points, win or loose.

Mechs:
Assault:
MKII-B 2-LBX5, 2 - AC5, JJ
DW - C 2 - er LLas, 2 - HLLas, 2 - erMLas , 2 - ATM 6

Heavy:
TBR-H 2 - AC10 , 2 - LRM 10, 2 - c Streak 6

MDD C(C) 6 - ATM3, 4 - HMedLas

MDD RV 2 - HLLas 2 - erLLas

I like the MDD frame own most of them But, I cannot get MMD Prime to work.

EJB-EC 1 - AC10 , 1 - HLLas, 2 - ArtyLRM 15

Medium

SHC-B 2 - ATM 3 , 2 HMedLas

HMN-Prime 1 - LPLas , 6 erMLas

Lite:
MLX-G 3 HMedLas, 6 CMachineGun

Right now I have 86 mechs. I'd say the mechs listed above are my best mechs. I prefer to play heavy. I always carry Active Probe. I've started removing Targeting Computers due to their uselessness. I don't need to know who you are I need to know where you are and lock on as fast as possible. The description of the targeting computer is misleading. It does not speed up locking on target. I used to always use ECM mechs but that has changed. A big rock works too. And how do those narc missiles appear out of nowhere?

An6ryMan69, on 14 March 2024 - 03:34 PM, said:

If the OP likes Battletech generally but has major issues with MWO, then give MW5 a try. Same battletech universe but completely different look and feel with vastly more player options, including not worrying whatsoever about what's Clan or not, as all tech is mix-and-match as you please anyway.

I prefer the IS/Clan nature of things. I was born in a tube, remember? I just want to be able to make it work reliably.

Thx All

[Alexander of Macedon]

FriedIV, on 08 March 2024 - 06:14 PM, said:

The MKII is one of the few mechs that can be made to stand toe to toe. But again , as stated, this is brawling. Everything about MWO is tilted towards quick brawling matches. I have a couple of decent MKII's. But then I look at rankings and I see pilots with 30 kills and one death. This is not possible with an MKII.

Not possible for you.

FriedIV, on 15 March 2024 - 04:31 AM, said:

MKII-B 2-LBX5, 2 - AC5, JJ

This is a large part of why why you can't get as good of a performance out of your MCII-B.

The "standard" build on it is 2x cUAC/10 + 2x cUAC/5. In the time it takes your build to do a single 20-damage alpha, this build can double-tap for 60 damage. Add on behavioral things like trading efficiently and good stats are doable. People who have extremely lopsided K/D are usually the ones who hide in a corner until late in the match then go kill all of the mostly-destroyed enemies remaining, or who run away and shut down in a hiding spot when their team starts losing.

I will tell you that nobody who has a high K/D is actively seeking out brawls. MWO damn sure isn't tilted towards brawling and I'm not sure where you got that impression. Almost everyone is running a build specialized in sniping, trading, or skirmish/ambushing (i.e lights and mediums that attack in close range but don't try to stay there and trade damage). Even if you get your 'mech into brawling range it's pretty rare to consistently get more than one kill per life in QP.

FriedIV, on 08 March 2024 - 06:14 PM, said:

How is it possible otherwise? I don't like being forced into an assault just to level the battlefield. But the line is drawn with heavys/ And what about the binary lasers and x-pulse lasers and stealth in heavies.

Heavies aren't better, they're easier to play. Assaults depend so heavily on awareness and positioning that they tend to be worse picks for people who aren't very good.

FWIW, I'm not the best player in the world. Maybe decent. This is a list of 'mechs I have >2.0 K/D on, disregarding ones I've played <10 times: ACH-C, BJ-1, BLR-2C, BNC-3M(C), CP-S, CPLT-C4, CTF-IM, HBK-IIC, HMN-B, LCT-1E, MC-IIB, Revenant, OSR-4D, PIR-1(S), PIR-2, RVN-3L, RVN-4X, SDR-5K, SHD-2D2, TBR-A, Howl, TDR-10SE(S), UM-R63, UZL-2S.

Of my best-performing 'mechs (in terms of KDR), 17% are assaults, 25% are heavies, 21% are mediums, 37% are lights. 37% are clan, 63% are IS -- but I own markedly more IS 'mechs than Clan ones.

FriedIV, on 08 March 2024 - 06:14 PM, said:

I don't think the haters care to open their minds cause they are IS dedicants. I knew I should not have done this when I did. But I just am furious over how fragile clan mechs are.

Calling everyone who disagrees with you or who suggests that your personal experience is not universal objective truth a hater is not going to convince anyone. Clan 'mechs don't get as much armor/structure quirking specifically because they perform better than their IS counterparts (with good builds).

Also, not trying to be mean, but all of the favorite builds you listed are a ) tabletop bracket builds that do not work effectively in MWO or b ) badly undergunned. Often both. If you want to run tabletop-style builds, MW5 is a much better environment for that, since it's actual combined-arms combat against large numbers of enemies instead of 12v12 arena deathmatch against other people where specializing into a single range band and maximizing damage output in that band is paramount.

Edited by Alexander of Macedon, 15 March 2024 - 05:59 AM.

[pattonesque]

FriedIV, on 15 March 2024 - 04:31 AM, said:

Mechs:
Assault:
MKII-B 2-LBX5, 2 - AC5, JJ
DW - C 2 - er LLas, 2 - HLLas, 2 - erMLas , 2 - ATM 6

Heavy:
TBR-H 2 - AC10 , 2 - LRM 10, 2 - c Streak 6

MDD C(C) 6 - ATM3, 4 - HMedLas

MDD RV 2 - HLLas 2 - erLLas

I like the MDD frame own most of them But, I cannot get MMD Prime to work.

EJB-EC 1 - AC10 , 1 - HLLas, 2 - ArtyLRM 15

Medium

SHC-B 2 - ATM 3 , 2 HMedLas

HMN-Prime 1 - LPLas , 6 erMLas

Lite:
MLX-G 3 HMedLas, 6 CMachineGun

Right now I have 86 mechs. I'd say the mechs listed above are my best mechs. I prefer to play heavy. I always carry Active Probe. I've started removing Targeting Computers due to their uselessness. I don't need to know who you are I need to know where you are and lock on as fast as possible. The description of the targeting computer is misleading. It does not speed up locking on target. I used to always use ECM mechs but that has changed. A big rock works too. And how do those narc missiles appear out of nowhere?

Your MLX and HMN builds are good but the rest are probably a major reason why you're struggling


MKII-B 2-LBX5, 2 - AC5, JJ -- this is not enough firepower for a Mad Cat MK II. If you want a similar build which is more effective, try one of these:

https://mwo.nav-alph...ba6fc3f1_MCII-B
https://mwo.nav-alph...41cbef12_MCII-B


DW - C 2 - er LLas, 2 - HLLas, 2 - erMLas , 2 - ATM 6-- this is also not enough firepower, mixes too many weapons/firing groups, and requires too much staring time with a DWF for not enough damage in return. Maybe try something like this:

https://mwo.nav-alph...=32a0e319_DWF-C
https://mwo.nav-alph...=382eb468_DWF-C
https://mwo.nav-alph...=b50a9e9d_DWF-C

TBR-H 2 - AC10 , 2 - LRM 10, 2 - c Streak 6 -- this is built to engage at three different ranges. Unfortunately it's also built to lose at all of them. Your AC/10s can't compete with dakka boats, your LRM10s will be knocked out of the sky by AMS (and won't do much effective damage if they don't) and your streak-6s aren't going to scare away anyone. These would probably work better:

https://mwo.nav-alph...065dd8_TBR-HLGD
https://mwo.nav-alph...120c76_TBR-HLGD

MDD C(C) 6 - ATM3, 4 - HMedLas -- in general ATM boats need JJs to maximize their effectiveness. the MDD-C also lends itself to ballistic builds, quirk-wise
https://mwo.nav-alph...=e5b10639_MDD-C
https://mwo.nav-alph...=e5b10639_MDD-C


MDD RV 2 - HLLas 2 - erLLas -- these don't sync up terribly well. You can keep either the 2 HLL or 2 ERLL but add a bunch of ERML to them for more effectiveness

https://mwo.nav-alph...edf28944_MDD-RV
https://mwo.nav-alph...66c1e5dc_MDD-RV

in general though I agree that Mad Dogs are in a tough-ish spot.

EJB-EC 1 - AC10 , 1 - HLLas, 2 - ArtyLRM 15 -- too many varied weapon systems, too much staring required for a mech which isn't super durable. Any of these builds will either let you let loose and twist to spread damage or utilize a range advantage
https://mwo.nav-alph...1633ff5b_EBJ-EC
https://mwo.nav-alph...ac0743c3_EBJ-EC
https://mwo.nav-alph...5b102bad_EBJ-EC

Medium

SHC-B 2 - ATM 3 , 2 HMedLas -- Shadow Cats struggle to put out damage and unfortunately this exacerbates that problem. the JJs are good for ATMs but two ATM3s might as well not exist. A traditional poptart might work here:
https://mwo.nav-alph...=7d3bfcea_SHC-B

If you want to rely on the lasers, this could be good (works on any SHC, not just the D):
https://mwo.nav-alph...=630cacf4_SHC-D

[Gas Guzzler]

The post before me is very solid advice.

You may decide that you want to tune the MCII 4AC5 2ERPPC build to go a bit slower and bring more DHS. I'm comfortable running hot builds but they aren't for everyone. (That happens to be one of my favorite weapon sets on the MCII, I've just found I need more heat dissipation than speed for it)

[Venshaw Kerensky]

FriedIV, on 08 March 2024 - 03:35 PM, said:

I could just suck.

[Insects]

The game is much too violent. Weapons should be removed and replaced with food and medicine baskets for the poor civilians.
This would resolve the Clam mech imbalance by eliminating brawls and replacing them with love.

[caravann]

Inner sphere mechs were sold to defeat clan mechs who were solely to be goblins in a dungeon.

The main purpose of the clans is to be defeated. And why mechs like the pillager was created to increase the sales of replacing the old models is the same reason how the clans became the leftovers created from outdated models.

[pbiggz]

caravann, on 17 March 2024 - 03:02 AM, said:

Inner sphere mechs were sold to defeat clan mechs who were solely to be goblins in a dungeon.

The main purpose of the clans is to be defeated. And why mechs like the pillager was created to increase the sales of replacing the old models is the same reason how the clans became the leftovers created from outdated models.

I bet you're fun at parties

[Valdarion Silarius]

caravann, on 17 March 2024 - 03:02 AM, said:

The main purpose of the clans is to be defeated.

Tell that to the writers for Clan Wolf in the IlClan Era.

FriedIV, on 08 March 2024 - 03:35 PM, said:

But, I really don't want to believe that. I spend a lot of time trying to build better mechs. And I stick to clan mechs. Call me foolish. But my better mechs are few and far between. Most of them fall apart if a flea farts. I'm just sick of the one sided view that only IS pilots pay your bills. Deaf ears.

[ScrapIron Prime]

caravann, on 17 March 2024 - 03:02 AM, said:

The main purpose of the clans is to be defeated.

That was true for a couple years right after the clans were introduced in lore. They were the "them" from the other side of space, the opponent du jour to be defeated and unite the inner sphere.

But then the story continued. And as with every story in Battletech, the folks on the other side of the border, on the other side of the fight, are real people too... and they get their story told in time.

[Void Angel]

Ladies and gentlemen! Boys, and/or girls of all ages!

Don't feed the trolls.

[FriedIV]

Clan mechs are broken.

F. O. Valdarion Silarius,
Venshaw Kerensky

Edited by FriedIV, 09 April 2024 - 06:08 PM.

[pattonesque]

FriedIV, on 09 April 2024 - 06:04 PM, said:

Clan mechs are broken.

F. O. Valdarion Silarius,
Venshaw Kerensky

pattonesque, on 08 March 2024 - 06:40 PM, said:

clan mechs are somewhat fragile but make up for it by packing overwhelming firepower. mechs like the Dire Wolf and Stone Rhino can deliver extremely devastating alphas.

Binaries and X-pulses are good on certain mechs. I believe they're getting a slight nerf in the upcoming March patch. Stealth is not particularly strong, however, as it nerfs a mech's DPS. It really only has use cases in light mechs, and even then it doesn't make them more threatening.

Maps these days make brawling viable but mid and long range play are also quite strong. What clan mechs do you prefer playing? I can suggest some builds that I find to be very impactful.

[DONTOR]

The ATM argument is valid, i rarely see them, and would never use them personally.

[pattonesque]

DONTOR, on 09 April 2024 - 07:01 PM, said:

The ATM argument is valid, i rarely see them, and would never use them personally.

they require certain mechs to use well (Howl or Veagle come to mind) but they can do work on those mechs.

which is why I keep asking this guy what builds he's using. I get the impression he's not building his mechs well and it's holding him back

[FriedIV]

I use atm3's behind a direct fire weapon like a ppc. The cool down time is what I'm using. A Maddog with 6 atm3's a ppc and lbx5 is a decent build for me.

I really try to stay away from assaults. Basically they are giant targets. Maddogs, Ebon Jaguar, Helbringer, Sunspider and Timberwolf are my primary mechs. Usuall I have an ac10 or ac5 , atm3s, heavy med las , sometimes heavy large. And I try to use ppcs but the heat is always an issue. I built a timber D yesterday with 2 erppc and 4 atm3s . I works but not always well enough. Maybe when it is fully skilled it will be better. My other timber is the howl with 2 ac10 and 4 atm3. Timbers arms are generally too low. And, they really cannot seem to out gun a maddog. The helbringer has a 2xerppc in the torso with and atm9 and I'm trying the new C-ap guass x 4. It's ok. My EBJ-EC has 1xac10, 1 hllas, and 2 artylrm15. Generally I run the atms because so much ammo is wasted shooting at targets that are out of site. As far as lites go I like the sch-b 2xhmlas, 2 x srm6arty.

I'm not sure what my problem is. Except I'm old. I'm on the border between skill level 5 and 4. I seem to win a few and move into 4 then loose a bunch and drop back to 5. And, it is valid that the team that drops decides everything. Sometimes we get rolled. Sometimes we roll. I really cannot speak to the mechanics of the team selection process. I appreciate your interest. But we can debate what works till the cows come home. The XL engine are a weak spot. Though the speed is, at times helpful. Mostly it seems you are supposed to pop off an alpha strike will peaking from behind cover. And eventually you end up in some kind of brawl. I don't like the small area of the maps. Though they are pretty good maps. Some are range maps. some are brawl maps. God forbid you get caught in the wrong mech on the wrong map. I know there are a lot of great pilots and those that are not. I gotta believe that I'm better than it seems I am. So, I don't want to play IS. I'm done for now. Thx

Edited by FriedIV, 10 April 2024 - 09:00 AM.

[pattonesque]

FriedIV, on 10 April 2024 - 08:24 AM, said:

I use atm3's behind a direct fire weapon like a ppc. The cool down time is what I'm using. A Maddog with 6 atm3's a ppc and lbx5 is a decent build for me.

I really try to stay away from assaults. Basically they are giant targets. Maddogs, Ebon Jaguar, Helbringer, Sunspider and Timberwolf are my primary mechs. Usuall I have an ac10 or ac5 , atm3s, heavy med las , sometimes heavy large. And I try to use ppcs but the heat is always an issue. I built a timber D yesterday with 2 erppc and 4 atm3s . I works but not always well enough. Maybe when it is fully skilled it will be better. My other timber is the howl with 2 ac10 and 4 atm3. Timbers arms are generally too low. And, they really cannot seem to out gun a maddog. The helbringer has a 2xerppc in the torso with and atm9 and I'm trying the new C-ap guass x 4. It's ok. My EBJ-EC has 1xac10, 1 hllas, and 2 artylrm15. Generally I run the atms because so much ammo is wasted shooting at targets that are out of site. As far as lites go I like the sch-b 2xhmlas, 2 x srm6arty.

I'm not sure what my problem is. Except I'm old. I'm on the border between skill level 5 and 4. I seem to win a few and move into 4 then loose a bunch and drop back to 5. And, it is valid that the team that drops decides everything. Sometimes we get rolled. Sometimes we roll. I really cannot speak to the mechanics of the team selection process. I appreciate your interest. But we can debate what works till the cows come home. The XL engine are a weak spot. Though the speed is, at times helpful. Mostly it seems you are supposed to pop off an alpha strike will peaking from behind cover. And eventually you end up in some kind of brawl. I don't like the small area of the maps. Though they are pretty good maps. Some are range maps. some are brawl maps. God forbid you get caught in the wrong mech on the wrong map. I know there are a lot of great pilots and those that are not. I gotta believe that I'm better than it seems I am. So, I don't want to play IS. I'm done for now. Thx

OK, perfect! Lemme see if I can give you some builds that will work.

First: ATMs are best if you can poptart with them. They can put out a lot of damage but you have to stare with them too much and the fact that they're not really indirect fire means you have to expose yourself to the enemy. So your best bet is to hover, get a quick lock, fire, and drop back into cover. This also lets you engage from closer to ATM optimal range. These builds have worked for me and others in the past:
https://mwo.nav-alph...=af8a86ba_VGL-3
https://mwo.nav-alph...=79427490_VGL-1
https://mwo.nav-alph...065dd8_TBR-HLGD
https://mwo.nav-alph...=7fc8e8a8_SNV-A

For your other builds, you're mixing and matching weapon types/ranges/cooldowns too much. Take the ERPPC/ATM and AC10/ATM builds you're using. this is a mixture of pinpoint and spread damage that makes you worse at both and decreases your DPS. I'll only post builds I'm confident will work, but there are far more that you can try on grimmechs.

For your Timber Wolves, lasers are basically always a good choice. You can do LPL/ML laservomit
https://mwo.nav-alph...dfe247fd_TBR-BH

Or LPLs
https://mwo.nav-alph...dfe247fd_TBR-BH

For the Howl, you can also do a traditional sniper build
https://mwo.nav-alph...73ae6b_TBR-HLGD

Hellbringers are also very good laserboys. More fragile than TBRs and no JJs but better mounts. Builds like this will work for you.
https://mwo.nav-alph...dd173_HBR-PRIME

Haven't really played EBJs much but they also function with laservomit
https://mwo.nav-alph...=592b2e1b_EBJ-B

Good dakka on this EBJ too
https://mwo.nav-alph...=b4cb536d_EBJ-A

Sunspiders, you can do more ballistic stuff. Either of these are fun
https://mwo.nav-alph...=829bca0d_SNS-D
https://mwo.nav-alph...=ffe7971b_SNS-D

Mad Dogs, unfortunately, are not super great. You could do HAG20s
https://mwo.nav-alph...=e5b10639_MDD-C

or dakka
https://mwo.nav-alph...=3c94a6e8_MDD-C

or splat
https://mwo.nav-alph...=9db72ad8_MDD-A

As for the Shadow Cat, an ERPPC poptart is usually the safest bet
https://mwo.nav-alph...=7d3bfcea_SHC-B

What I would say is that with clan mechs in particular (and really all mechs) you want to focus on being able to put out the largest sustainable alpha possible at the same range. This means that sometimes you'll have to maneuver a bit in order to engage, like if you're a brawler in a sniper map or vice versa. But overall, it's better to build a mech to win at one range than to lose at two. Hope this helps!

[FriedIV]

"First: ATMs are best if you can poptart with them. They can put out a lot of damage but you have to stare with them too much and the fact that they're not really indirect fire means you have to expose yourself to the enemy. So your best bet is to hover, get a quick lock, fire, and drop back into cover. "

This is why I lead with a ppc or las or ac. By the time the ppc is away the atm is locked and fired. And due to the cool down rate of atm3s I often end up firing 2 salvos to one ppc when heat starts creeping in. Hey thx. It's fun to talk to someone. Not just haters. I'm actually gonna take a break from heavies and give my lites and meds a run thru.

Edited by FriedIV, 10 April 2024 - 01:48 PM.

[pattonesque]

FriedIV, on 10 April 2024 - 01:47 PM, said:

"First: ATMs are best if you can poptart with them. They can put out a lot of damage but you have to stare with them too much and the fact that they're not really indirect fire means you have to expose yourself to the enemy. So your best bet is to hover, get a quick lock, fire, and drop back into cover. "

This is why I lead with a ppc or las or ac. By the time the ppc is away the atm is locked and fired. And due to the cool down rate of atm3s I often end up firing 2 salvos to one ppc when heat starts creeping in. Hey thx. It's fun to talk to someone. Not just haters. I'm actually gonna take a break from heavies and give my lites and meds a run thru.

anytime.

the issue with leading with PPCs/lasers/AC is that you're nixing an advantage of non-lockon weapons, which is the ability to twist away damage. So in return for just a slight increase in damage from the ATMs, you're trading survivability.

[Abaddun]

Just be aware that ATMs work best in a sweet spot between 90m and 240 meters where they deal 2.5 damage. They have a minimum arm distance of 60 but because of the ballistic arc a good portion of them will soar over your target if you try and use them at that range. Also bear in mind that ATMs, whilst they have a higher velocity, tighter spread and longer max range then an LRM, deal less damage per ton at ranges above 240, especially at ranges above 500. Also bear in mind you don't need a lock, if you see a big stationary target like an assault, as long as your reticule is over them when you launch most missiles will land if the target does not move.

T4/5 is a bit of a cluster where anything goes, but generally speaking at that level there isn't that much of a power disparity between IS and clan. At higher tiers all the way up to competitive MWO, clans have a distinct edge in the form of the ERLL, nothing else really comes close to it for trading at range but it really comes down to team comp and map awareness, if you plan for both it doesn't matter what you are piloting.