57 replies to this topic

[Vincefeld]

Certain mechs got truly stupid 20%+ velocity 20%+ range quirks. For example warhammer and rifleman, but there are dozens of em.

Wasn't buff to PPC and gauss effective range already enough to make long range viable?
I don't know about you, but i don't wanna be potshotted from 1km+ away taking FULL DAMAGE.
And worst thing - quirks stack with skills for truly busted effective ranges. Sweats can now peek from impossible before positions and be totally safe from midrange guns.

[redacted]

tldr[redacted]: i Q_Q about range quirks, not about snipers in general.
with PPC velocity%+ even noobs able to hit heavy targets from 1km+ away and it should be hard to do.

Edited by Ekson Valdez, 10 April 2024 - 02:20 AM.

[martian]

Vincefeld, on 30 March 2024 - 03:58 AM, said:

....
You mofos at PGI even ...

You have got this part wrong.

Cauldron members decide what 'Mech will have what ridiculous quirks. Ditto for weapons and their stats.

[Valdarion Silarius]

Vincefeld, on 30 March 2024 - 03:58 AM, said:

Certain mechs got truly stupid 20%+ velocity 20%+ range quirks. For example warhammer and rifleman, but there are dozens of em.

Wasn't buff to PPC and gauss effective range already enough to make long range viable?
I don't know about you, but i don't wanna be potshotted from 1km+ away taking FULL DAMAGE.
And worst thing - quirks stack with skills for truly busted effective ranges. Sweats can now peek from impossible before positions and be totally safe from midrange guns.

You mofos at PGI even had the gall to add Legendary 65 tonner holding 2 heavy gauss in ARMS with 90%+ range! That's like dual wielding golden miniguns in cheap chinese CoD knockoff.
Not angry, but disappointed. This game is a joke and next powercreep step is rifleman 3

What are you even talking about? Both Clan and IS Rifleman mechs (and even the Jagermech) are glass cannons. The Rifleman IIC lacks the speed to keep up in a Nascar, and the IS Rifleman lacks armor for any prolonged engagements. They get their range quirks due to the play style of the mech since it has to abuse the range in order to survive. If these mechs are giving you problems there are many ways to deal with them, and in quickplay there are usually some of the first to die unless it's being piloted by a good player who knows how to rotate with their team. Also most of the firepower are in it's arms which are fragile enough.

The Warhammer velocity quirks are warranted since most of it's arm mounts are low. Certain mechs like the Maul have decent hard points mounted in it's torso but Warhammer's suffer from low hardpoints. If you are getting shot across the map by PPC's or Gauss, take cover and learn to communicate with your team. You will often have sniper mechs that can counter whatever is outranging you or god forbid you can communicate with your light mech buddies to counter a lone sniper.

Edited by Valdarion Silarius, 30 March 2024 - 07:06 AM.

[Vincefeld]

Valdarion Silarius, on 30 March 2024 - 07:04 AM, said:

What are you even talking about? Both Clan and IS Rifleman mechs (and even the Jagermech) are glass cannons. The Rifleman IIC lacks the speed to keep up in a Nascar, and the IS Rifleman lacks armor for any prolonged engagements. They get their range quirks due to the play style of the mech since it has to abuse the range in order to survive. If these mechs are giving you problems there are many ways to deal with them, and in quickplay there are usually some of the first to die unless it's being piloted by a good player who knows how to rotate with their team. Also most of the firepower are in it's arms which are fragile enough.

The Warhammer velocity quirks are warranted since most of it's arm mounts are low. Certain mechs like the Maul have decent hard points mounted in it's torso but Warhammer's suffer from low hardpoints. If you are getting shot across the map by PPC's or Gauss, take cover and learn to communicate with your team. You will often have sniper mechs that can counter whatever is outranging you or god forbid you can communicate with your light mech buddies to counter a lone sniper.

lol i just gave random example from mechDB. no need to go indepth. I shoudn't take damage every time i move between cover because some fks sit on HPG walls or on edge of mining collective. point still stands

Edit: just so you know im not crying about snipers in general, im okay with them having 800m effective range
What im not okay with is extending it past 1km with quirks on weapons that shoudn't have it.
Also mounts don't matter if you take 20% damage from return fire. might as well corner peek exposing full mech.

Edited by Vincefeld, 30 March 2024 - 07:30 AM.

[ScrapIron Prime]

The trend right now is to take underperforming mechs that are quirked for a single weapon system and expand them into generic quirks. So instead of range quirks for just the regular PPC, for example, the Vindicator now has range, cooldown, heat, velocity, etc for weapons in general. That way you're not pigeonholed to play one mech with only a single optimal loadout.

[Der Geisterbaer]

ScrapIron Prime, on 30 March 2024 - 08:18 AM, said:

The trend right now is to take underperforming mechs that are quirked for a single weapon system and expand them into generic quirks. [..] That way you're not pigeonholed to play one mech with only a single optimal loadout.

In that spirit I would love to see the LCT-1V's energy cooldown to changed to a generic cooldown like on the LCT-3V ... but considering that the FLE-19's generic cooldown quirk was already changed to a split generic + more specialized and higher energy cooldown this will most likely remain a dream of mine.

[Dr Wubs]

ScrapIron Prime, on 30 March 2024 - 08:18 AM, said:

The trend right now is to take underperforming mechs that are quirked for a single weapon system and expand them into generic quirks. So instead of range quirks for just the regular PPC, for example, the Vindicator now has range, cooldown, heat, velocity, etc for weapons in general. That way you're not pigeonholed to play one mech with only a single optimal loadout.

That's nice. So they're going to put the quirks back on the viper-F, right? Right?

We all know the answer to that.

[ScrapIron Prime]

Dr Wubs, on 30 March 2024 - 03:05 PM, said:

That's nice. So they're going to put the quirks back on the viper-F, right? Right?

We all know the answer to that.

Or give the treatment to all the versions of the crusader that no one plays, yeah.

[Weeny Machine]

Vincefeld, on 30 March 2024 - 07:16 AM, said:

lol i just gave random example from mechDB. no need to go indepth. I shoudn't take damage every time i move between cover because some fks sit on HPG walls or on edge of mining collective. point still stands

Edit: just so you know im not crying about snipers in general, im okay with them having 800m effective range
What im not okay with is extending it past 1km with quirks on weapons that shoudn't have it.
Also mounts don't matter if you take 20% damage from return fire. might as well corner peek exposing full mech.

I think it depends. I think on light mechs and most mediums such a big quirk of 20% velocity isn't that problematic because they cannot boat sufficient punch of ppt weapons to knock someone out easily. However, on heavies and above such quirks become a different story (combined with the upping of velocity of e.g. ERPPCs, Gauss over the years etc)...and fuel the sniper meta

As for quirking:
I hope trash tier mechs like the Huginn get some significant Magshot quirks to make the mech playable again

Edited by Weeny Machine, 31 March 2024 - 05:30 AM.

[An6ryMan69]

Definitely some mechs like the Huginn and the Breaker are bunk and could use a mega-perk.

The loyalty Jagermech that the OP mentioned, I have not found to be so great at all...and I generally really like the chassis.

[Curccu]

Vincefeld, on 30 March 2024 - 03:58 AM, said:

You mofos at PGI even had the gall to add Legendary 65 tonner holding 2 heavy gauss in ARMS with 90%+ range! That's like dual wielding golden miniguns in cheap chinese CoD knockoff.

Oh that 65 ton mech that goes slow as Annihilator has XL engine and has explosives strapped in both arms (and has low ammo capacity also).
Yeah I wouldn't really be worried about that one...

[Kotis77]

Vincefeld, on 30 March 2024 - 03:58 AM, said:

You mofos at PGI

Yeah this aint PGI's fault. They dumped all balancing to Cauldron. And this aint that better than before. This might work if everyone who play this game is hardcore competitive PVP player. But there is so many casuals in this game who doesnt want to play sweatymode, so balancing isnt right for this game.

Cauldron should understand this, but they dont. Feels like they balancing for comp, not quickplay.

[Vincefeld]

Kotis77, on 02 April 2024 - 06:40 AM, said:

Yeah this aint PGI's fault. They dumped all balancing to Cauldron. And this aint that better than before. This might work if everyone who play this game is hardcore competitive PVP player. But there is so many casuals in this game who doesnt want to play sweatymode, so balancing isnt right for this game.

Cauldron should understand this, but they dont. Feels like they balancing for comp, not quickplay.

I don't understand how PPC Gauss that deal full damage at 1km+ and fly 20% faster balanced in comp either.
Fully agreed with Cauldron when they raise long range from ~600 to ~800, but they got too greedy and attached convenient perks to them so sniping is even easier job

[MarcinT1981]

Kotis77, on 02 April 2024 - 06:40 AM, said:

They dumped all balancing to Cauldron. And this aint that better than before. This might work if everyone who play this game is hardcore competitive PVP player. But there is so many casuals in this game who doesnt want to play sweatymode, so balancing isnt right for this game.

Cauldron should understand this, but they dont. Feels like they balancing for comp, not quickplay.

What nonsense, the game must be balanced for the best players, imagine what would happen if one mech was so strong that it played well for a weak player and could achieve good results with it. And then some top 50 get into such a mech. He starts destroying everything around him and destroys the entire game

[DarkBazerker]

The meta was long range for how many years now? Sorry the op got shot i guess?

[Weeny Machine]

MarcinT1981, on 02 April 2024 - 12:17 PM, said:

What nonsense, the game must be balanced for the best players, imagine what would happen if one mech was so strong that it played well for a weak player and could achieve good results with it. And then some top 50 get into such a mech. He starts destroying everything around him and destroys the entire game

Then explain why they promoted sniping that much? Velocity was upped over a years across the board. Then even this was not enough and velocity was added.

In this case even a dumby can learn where the good places on a map are, sit in ecm cover and snipe away - and the velocity buff makes it easier for him - while it is straight out deadly in the hands of a really good player.

Also, if you play lights, you will realize that the 30-35t lights seem to be more fragile nowadays than ever before. This is also because of velocity - they get hit much more easily than in earlier times. If you don't believe me, just look at the armour values needed on 35t mechs nowadays.

You see, they don't follow your logic because the aforementioned things make the weapons formidable for very good players while they are ok/good for the average Joe.

At the end of the day it boils down to 2 metas:
1. Sniping
2. mid-range laser vomit

Funnily enough, the styles which should be more rewarding because they require more situational awareness, positioning and exposing your mech like brawling, dps-ing etc are not really catered to. Both, snipers and laser vomitter unload and hunker back into cover while the dpser has a gaping hole in the chest and tries to put in some shots before they target waddles back into cover.

You see, the basic rule of good game making: "risk vs reward" is actually skewed

Edited by Weeny Machine, 03 April 2024 - 04:08 AM.

[MarcinT1981]

Snipers have nothing to do with Meta. Meta is mid range (Lasers, Uac etc) or fast mini lights with machine guns (magshot now) and/or pink lasers.
The sniper generally has no protection from other mechs, except other snipers, and up close his dps is very weak considering the tonnage.
A sniper is most valuable when he is at a range of, say, 750-1350m, and he cannot always position himself in such a way that he can farm easily, and he always has to watch out for light and fast mediums.
On hopeless maps, i.e. Solaris, Vitric, Helebore, etc., it's really hard.
The people who complain most about snipers are those who try to trade with them at a distance of 800 m and are then very surprised, and they don't even try to flank them or shorten the distance, and this problem may only be in Alpine

[Weeny Machine]

MarcinT1981, on 03 April 2024 - 04:29 AM, said:

Snipers have nothing to do with Meta. Meta is mid range (Lasers, Uac etc) or fast mini lights with machine guns (magshot now) and/or pink lasers.
The sniper generally has no protection from other mechs, except other snipers, and up close his dps is very weak considering the tonnage.
A sniper is most valuable when he is at a range of, say, 750-1350m, and he cannot always position himself in such a way that he can farm easily, and he always has to watch out for light and fast mediums.
On hopeless maps, i.e. Solaris, Vitric, Helebore, etc., it's really hard.
The people who complain most about snipers are those who try to trade with them at a distance of 800 m and are then very surprised, and they don't even try to flank them or shorten the distance, and this problem may only be in Alpine

Your "weak" and "helpless" sniper mech with PPD weapons can literally cripple a light mech with one or two salvos if he jumps him.

Lights with machine guns are meta...yeah...right. You see them all over QP ripping mechs apart...oh wait...that was like 2+ years ago

Edited by Weeny Machine, 04 April 2024 - 01:37 AM.

[martian]

Weeny Machine, on 04 April 2024 - 01:35 AM, said:

Your "weak" and "helpless" sniper mech with PPD weapons can literally cripple a light mech with one or two salvos if he jumps him.

Lights with machine guns are meta...yeah...right. You see them all over QP ripping mechs apart...oh wait...that was like 2+ years ago

These days you do not even see assault pilots complaining about light 'Mechs on the forums.

[Vincefeld]

MarcinT1981, on 03 April 2024 - 04:29 AM, said:

Snipers have nothing to do with Meta. Meta is mid range (Lasers, Uac etc) or fast mini lights with machine guns (magshot now) and/or pink lasers.
The sniper generally has no protection from other mechs, except other snipers, and up close his dps is very weak considering the tonnage.
A sniper is most valuable when he is at a range of, say, 750-1350m, and he cannot always position himself in such a way that he can farm easily, and he always has to watch out for light and fast mediums.
On hopeless maps, i.e. Solaris, Vitric, Helebore, etc., it's really hard.
The people who complain most about snipers are those who try to trade with them at a distance of 800 m and are then very surprised, and they don't even try to flank them or shorten the distance, and this problem may only be in Alpine

I would agree with this if whole team didn't snipe. Heavy snipers covering each other and setting up crossfire is worst thing that people could do to you. By time you get in range there's likely a hole in your ST.

Edit: anyway this isn't even about sniping, this is about quirk+skills stacking that makes sniping OP on certain mechs. It needs to be nerfed down to not so ridiculous ~10%s and i won't have problem with it.

Edited by Vincefeld, 04 April 2024 - 08:45 AM.