65 replies to this topic

[Thunderbuddy]

+400% ammo, -60% cooldown and -50% jam chance on an omni mech? Am I not understanding this correctly?

BHKU-OC LEFT ARM

• 1 ballistic
  
• Armor +20
  
• Ballistic ammo +200%(minus machinegun/magshot family)
  
• Ballistic Cooldown -30%
  
• UAC Jam Chance -25%

BHKU-OB RIGHT ARM

• 1 ballistic
  
• Armor +20
  
• Ballistic ammo +200%(minus machinegun/magshot family)
  
• Ballistic Cooldown -30%
  
• UAC Jam Chance -25%

[MechMaster059]

The fact that every mech that's meant to carry UACs have massive Jam/Duration reduction quirks tells you everything you need to know about how lacking UAC design/balance is.

[feeWAIVER]

where do you see these stats?
Oh, I found it in the patch notes..


Where do you see the mech specs? hardpoints and whatnot?

Edited by feeWAIVER, 22 April 2024 - 06:44 PM.

[cougurt]

MechMaster059, on 22 April 2024 - 05:57 PM, said:

The fact that every mech that's meant to carry UACs have massive Jam/Duration reduction quirks tells you everything you need to know about how lacking UAC design/balance is.

in this case it has more to do with the shortcomings of the mech itself. the quirks might look impressive, but any UAC builds you can feasibly run on it would be extremely underwhelming otherwise. even with the quirks, something like 2x UAC5 is going to be rather light on ammo.

you can already run similar UAC builds on the blackjack 1DC with -50% jam chance as well as -20% heat, -20% cooldown, and +20% range.

[martian]

MechMaster059, on 22 April 2024 - 05:57 PM, said:

The fact that every mech that's meant to carry UACs have massive Jam/Duration reduction quirks tells you everything you need to know about how lacking UAC design/balance is.

You are wrong.

Sun Spider "Ambush" carries a pair of UAC-10s, works nicely with them and yet is has got no Jam Duration or Jam Chance quirks.

Ditto other 'Mechs ...

[Aidan Crenshaw]

MechMaster059, on 22 April 2024 - 05:57 PM, said:

The fact that every mech that's meant to carry UACs have massive Jam/Duration reduction quirks tells you everything you need to know about how lacking UAC design/balance is.

ANH-2A and MCII-B would like a word with you on that matter.

The massive quirks are most likely due to the fact that the Blackhawk-KU can only mount a single ballistic per arm and only has about 17t of podspace available. The eapon mounts are also quite low and spaced apart for bad convergence on the projectiles.
17t translate into 2x UAC5 with 3t of ammo, less if you want some backup-weaponry in the ST.

[caravann]

It's mostly players who doesn't like the chance to jam.

They don't like that uac give a chance to fire three times in a row.

Uac is strong as it fire three times and can stack it with pulse laser

It goes brrr, they get pin point accurate damage going straight into the head or side torso

You may not notice it that many clan mechs have hunchback mounted cannons and that create the issue of being farmed by faster mechs since hunchback doesn't work like in tabletop. The better players understand the advantages of being able to pick a side torso or a leg instead of struggle moving the entire mech just to be in position to fire. As well they have to pretty much be driving straight forward and be in movement like Titanic they must have speed to be given mobility or hit the iceberg.

The quirks are added because the mech itself is bad and they add those quirks because the mech is bad.
For most part if we look upon. Inner sphere and clan mechs the inner sphere are most of the time better.
The clan mech have one single advantage of better LRM 10 which doesn't required any aim. The best clan mech is blood asp hero mech with missile hardpoints. Compare to the clan mechs many inner sphere assault are faster or heavier in armor or has access to arm mounted AC20. The clans have pepper boxes of laser weapons.

Two examples is executioner and Gargoyle with pepperboxes instead of a cannon and nova with two pepper boxes is one of the strongest clan mech as well has two hunchback mounted Ballistic hardpoints.

If we going to compare it with inner sphere we got bushwacker with arm mounted Ballistic hardpoints and hunchback missile hardpoints and a laser in the center. One may argue that since the Ballistic hardpoints is hunchback they have an advantage but that is not the case. Enforcer as example can mount 4 cannons in its arms making it in practice having an ultra cannon who can pin point the target with no jam chance.

[Aidan Crenshaw]

caravann, on 22 April 2024 - 09:26 PM, said:

It's mostly players who doesn't like the chance to jam.

They don't like that uac give a chance to fire three times in a row.

Uac is strong as it fire three times and can stack it with pulse laser

It goes brrr, they get pin point accurate damage going straight into the head or side torso

You are confusing mechanics here (maybe with MW5). An IS UAC5 fires one projectile and then can fire another during the weapon's cooldown, which induces a chance to jam. A Clan UAC5 fires two projectiles in quick succession and is also able to refire once during the cooldown, in ducing jam chance.

[LapisMaddog]

Thunderbuddy, on 22 April 2024 - 05:49 PM, said:

+400% ammo, -60% cooldown and -50% jam chance on an omni mech? Am I not understanding this correctly?

BHKU-OC LEFT ARM

• 1 ballistic
  
• Armor +20
  
• Ballistic ammo +200%(minus machinegun/magshot family)
  
• Ballistic Cooldown -30%
  
• UAC Jam Chance -25%

BHKU-OB RIGHT ARM

• 1 ballistic
  
• Armor +20
  
• Ballistic ammo +200%(minus machinegun/magshot family)
  
• Ballistic Cooldown -30%
  
• UAC Jam Chance -25%

No its not, it only has 2 Ballistic and little tonnage so at best you can run 2 uac5 with 1 ton of ammo ~1k dmg worth of ammo assuming all shots hit in optimal and don't miss so it cant farm and it isn't that strong for dps mechs like 1 Lxpl 4 HMG 3 SRM 6 BSW-X1, BJ-Arrow with 2 LXPL 6 LMG and many other DPS mediums/heavies will out-dps and out farm the BHKU

[LapisMaddog]

MechMaster059, on 22 April 2024 - 05:57 PM, said:

The fact that every mech that's meant to carry UACs have massive Jam/Duration reduction quirks tells you everything you need to know about how lacking UAC design/balance is.

If they didn't put uac quirks on uac mechs then every mech would use uacs and they would be op cause every other dakka ballistic would be useless if uacs are just more damage they should roughly equal to other dakka without quirks and with quirks the best option like they are

[LapisMaddog]

caravann, on 22 April 2024 - 09:26 PM, said:

It's mostly players who doesn't like the chance to jam.

They don't like that uac give a chance to fire three times in a row.

Uac is strong as it fire three times and can stack it with pulse laser

It goes brrr, they get pin point accurate damage going straight into the head or side torso

You may not notice it that many clan mechs have hunchback mounted cannons and that create the issue of being farmed by faster mechs since hunchback doesn't work like in tabletop. The better players understand the advantages of being able to pick a side torso or a leg instead of struggle moving the entire mech just to be in position to fire. As well they have to pretty much be driving straight forward and be in movement like Titanic they must have speed to be given mobility or hit the iceberg.

The quirks are added because the mech itself is bad and they add those quirks because the mech is bad.
For most part if we look upon. Inner sphere and clan mechs the inner sphere are most of the time better.
The clan mech have one single advantage of better LRM 10 which doesn't required any aim. The best clan mech is blood asp hero mech with missile hardpoints. Compare to the clan mechs many inner sphere assault are faster or heavier in armor or has access to arm mounted AC20. The clans have pepper boxes of laser weapons.

Two examples is executioner and Gargoyle with pepperboxes instead of a cannon and nova with two pepper boxes is one of the strongest clan mech as well has two hunchback mounted Ballistic hardpoints.

If we going to compare it with inner sphere we got bushwacker with arm mounted Ballistic hardpoints and hunchback missile hardpoints and a laser in the center. One may argue that since the Ballistic hardpoints is hunchback they have an advantage but that is not the case. Enforcer as example can mount 4 cannons in its arms making it in practice having an ultra cannon who can pin point the target with no jam chance.

Blood asp hero with missiles isn't close to the strongest Clan assault not even the strongest build for the Blood asp hero

[Samziel]

Thunderbuddy, on 22 April 2024 - 05:49 PM, said:

+400% ammo, -60% cooldown and -50% jam chance on an omni mech? Am I not understanding this correctly?

BHKU-OC LEFT ARM

• 1 ballistic
  
• Armor +20
  
• Ballistic ammo +200%(minus machinegun/magshot family)
  
• Ballistic Cooldown -30%
  
• UAC Jam Chance -25%

BHKU-OB RIGHT ARM

• 1 ballistic
  
• Armor +20
  
• Ballistic ammo +200%(minus machinegun/magshot family)
  
• Ballistic Cooldown -30%
  
• UAC Jam Chance -25%

You might wanna check Nova D. 60% ballistic CD, no jam chance but fits a HAG30 with enough ammo. No one plays it although I've heard its fun. Like said before the Black Hawk Ku can boat at most 2 UAC5s or UAC20. Not much and all in low slung arms.

I dont have high hopes for its release state, but I'd love to be surprised since I want to support PGI releasing more IS omnis.

Aidan Crenshaw, on 22 April 2024 - 09:18 PM, said:

17t translate into 2x UAC5 with 3t of ammo, less if you want some backup-weaponry in the ST.

I dont think it has any hardpoints in side torsos.

Edited by Samziel, 22 April 2024 - 10:17 PM.

[Aidan Crenshaw]

Samziel, on 22 April 2024 - 10:15 PM, said:

I dont think it has any hardpoints in side torsos.

I'm pretty sure it has.



but I must correct myself, 1t ammo is already taxing on the armour.

Edited by Aidan Crenshaw, 22 April 2024 - 11:05 PM.

[LapisMaddog]

Aidan Crenshaw, on 22 April 2024 - 11:04 PM, said:

I'm pretty sure it has.

A Developer posted a screenshot of the 2 Uac5 build it only has 2 hardpoints 1 in each arm (ballistic)

[Aidan Crenshaw]

Of course, but the BHKU-O has 1E per ST omnipod. you can see them in the official screenshot above.

[LapisMaddog]

Aidan Crenshaw, on 22 April 2024 - 11:12 PM, said:

Of course, but the BHKU-O has 1E per ST omnipod. you can see them in the official screenshot above.

Thats the energy variant/build not the UAC variant

Edited by LapisMaddog, 22 April 2024 - 11:14 PM.

[Aidan Crenshaw]

LapisMaddog, on 22 April 2024 - 11:14 PM, said:

Thats the energy variant/build not the UAC variant

Do I really have to explain the Omnimech concept to you? You take the BHKU-O STs and slap the ballistics Arms on top of that. Done. B E E B

[LapisMaddog]

Aidan Crenshaw, on 22 April 2024 - 11:16 PM, said:

Do I really have to explain the Omnimech concept to you? You take the BHKU-O STs and slap the ballistics Arms on top of that. Done. B E E B

Then you lose the quirks and even if you didn't you wouldn't be able to use the hardpoints cause lack of tonnage

Edited by LapisMaddog, 22 April 2024 - 11:18 PM.

[Aidan Crenshaw]

LapisMaddog, on 22 April 2024 - 11:18 PM, said:

Then you lose the quirks and even if you didn't you wouldn't be able to use the hardpoints cause lack of tonnage

No you won't lose the quirks, because the ballistic quirks are tied to the Omnipods, instead of a set of eight bonus. Since we don't get the BHKU-OB and -OC base variants, you'll always lose the So8 quirks when mounting ballistics or missiles.

[LapisMaddog]

Aidan Crenshaw, on 22 April 2024 - 11:22 PM, said:

No you won't lose the quirks, because the ballistic quirks are tied to the Omnipods, instead of a set of eight bonus. Since we don't get the BHKU-OB and -OC base variants, you'll always lose the So8 quirks when mounting ballistics or missiles.

You still wont get to use the hardpoints anyway its already low on ammo