76 replies to this topic

[MossySnake]

Haman Karn, on 24 April 2024 - 02:26 PM, said:

I was having fun with 7ML + 7 ERSL on the BHKU-0XS

Either stick with bigger mechs, or use the agility and jump jets to get into nice positions. Hide behind cover, peek/poptart, full alpha of 61 damage into CT, hide. Hard to overheat since you can keep poking with the er-small lasers.
Its a low mech so can be hard to see and has very good jump jets.
When taking damage dont twist tooo much, just wiggle a bit.

2x Light AC5+1 LPPC with max cooldown was also fun. Destoyed a fresh Crael 1v1 the first game i tried it, ripped through its CT before any of my armour was orange.

I realized very soon after this post I forgot to armor quirk the thing lol. Had a decent match after with full med lasers and some speed tweaks to better position.

[Haman Karn]

MossySnake, on 24 April 2024 - 02:32 PM, said:

I realized very soon after this post I forgot to armor quirk the thing lol. Had a decent match after with full med lasers and some speed tweaks to better position.

Hell yeah, a few speed tweaks and hard breaks can go a long way.

Edited by Haman Karn, 24 April 2024 - 02:45 PM.

[Lobster in Leggins]

MossySnake, on 24 April 2024 - 01:40 PM, said:

I kinda feel like this mech sucks, I've yet to break 200dmg in it before detonating. I try to peek, try to stay back and play support, but in this meta you just get popped once in the shoulder by a clan mech and you're done. XL engines are outright unusable rn, and I cannot get this damn thing to shave enough weight to put anything better than a popgun on it.

Either buff IS XLs or nerf clan long-range alphas because this is ridiculous. Kinda want my $20 back.

finally an accurate review of the mech, carriying my 20$ to my dealer now instead

[Lobster in Leggins]

Haman Karn, on 24 April 2024 - 02:26 PM, said:

I was having fun with 7ML + 7 ERSL on the BHKU-0XS

Either stick with bigger mechs, or use the agility and jump jets to get into nice positions. Hide behind cover, peek/poptart, full alpha of 61 damage into CT, hide. Hard to overheat since you can keep poking with the er-small lasers.
Its a low mech so can be hard to see and has very good jump jets.
When taking damage dont twist tooo much, just wiggle a bit.

2x Light AC5+1 LPPC with max cooldown was also fun. Destoyed a fresh Crael 1v1 the first game i tried it, ripped through its CT before any of my armour was orange.

cool story bro, now back to reality

[-Ramrod-]

I can see why many people would be unhappy with this mech. For laser vomit it's fine. But with the ballistics you have to face tank what you're shooting at to deal a good amount of damage. And while this does have armor and structure quirks it's not enough to sustain the amount of damage you take while dealing our your damage. Of course you shouldn't really face tank a 80+ ton mech with this thing anyways. This is where good mobility and positioning come into play. I'm definitely not the best but I'm able to do well enough in it solo pugging. So I understanding what both decides are saying. It's just trying to find a balance between the two that might be a bit tricky. Easiest thing to do would be to add more structure/armor quirks even though it already has a "good" amount. Not sure I'd agree with a whole re-working of IS XL's though.

Edited by -Ramrod-, 24 April 2024 - 04:31 PM.

[Will9761]

This Black Hawk KU is such a beast when it comes to damage:

[Haman Karn]

Zerrrdoerer, on 24 April 2024 - 04:15 PM, said:

cool story bro, now back to reality

are you a child

[Will9761]

-Ramrod-, on 24 April 2024 - 04:30 PM, said:

I can see why many people would be unhappy with this mech. For laser vomit it's fine. But with the ballistics you have to face tank what you're shooting at to deal a good amount of damage. And while this does have armor and structure quirks it's not enough to sustain the amount of damage you take while dealing our your damage. Of course you shouldn't really face tank a 80+ ton mech with this thing anyways. This is where good mobility and positioning come into play. I'm definitely not the best but I'm able to do well enough in it solo pugging. So I understanding what both decides are saying. It's just trying to find a balance between the two that might be a bit tricky. Easiest thing to do would be to add more structure/armor quirks even though it already has a "good" amount. Not sure I'd agree with a whole re-working of IS XL's though.

I agree with you on that. Another part that plays into the Black Hawk KU is Engine mentality. Whenever you are piloting mechs with Standard, Clan XL or Light Fusion Engines, you feel like Rambo and that you can take on the world, but with the IS XL, you have to be a bit more cautious about where you have to strike. And given the one torso loss rule with the IS XL, it forces your mind into survival mode and think tactically in order to stay alive.

[Voice of Kerensky]

I look at the Black Hawk, and thoughts come to my mind that it would be possible to give one of their variants (BHKU-O for example) a quirks for PPC + energy, in order to at least to some extent bring this mech closer to the Nova-A.
The ERPPC build of the Black Hawk is inferior to Nova-A in terms of flight speed ERPPC (without velocity skill points) 2400 m/s versus 3053 m/s + IS ERPPC 10 points of point damage without splash damage (unlike the clan ERPPC + 5 points splash damage) + IS ERPPC is one ton heavier (7 tons vs 6 tons) + of course we should not forget that this is IS XL with his instant death when he loses any half torso.

Edited by Voice of Kerensky, 24 April 2024 - 06:59 PM.

[and zero]

My experience so far is that it’s like the Longbow; you’d think those big arms would protect your side torsos right? ….right??
Except even worse obviously since XL only.

Combining that side torso weakness with no endo/ff limiting build variety and it feels rather disappointing so far.

Also shouldn’t it have SB gauss ammo quirks? It even has ammo for the lbx20 it can’t even equip…

[Big-G]

So... when can we see the additional OA, OB (complete), OC (complete), OD (complete), OE, OF and OG models?

[BlueDevilspawn]

I'll be blunt and straightforward; the prevailing view of the mech (if you're playing it correctly as an IS XL mech) is that it's ridiculously strong. It has the HP of a 60 tonner plus extra survival quirks, in the hitbox size of a squat 50 tonner. In other words (again if you're playing it correctly and spreading damage/spamming JJ) it's very survivable.

Some of the very viable builds -

• OX so8 - 14 ERML, 3 DHS, can strip armor for a 4th extra DHS. Thanks to -20% heat you can easily stagger alpha the arms left/right twice.
  
• OX so8 - 6 MPL (quirked to allow 7 but 6 is more sustainable) and 8 ERSL. Again due to the medium laser family heat quirk, very sustainable
  
• O so8 - 2 snubs (torso) 10 small lasers, Crusader-6T imitation. I (and many others) are rolling in 1K games in this build
  
• Any CT, use OX side torsos for heat, use both ballistic arms builds
  
  • 2 AC5 - has more dps than a 6 AC5 Mauler
    
  • 2 UAC2 - you physically can't click the fire button fast enough to shoot off cooldown, a bullet storm
    
  • 2 UAC5 - needs some armor strip but can crap out damage
    
  • 1 UAC5 - a bit meme-ish but the extra weight is put into max armor, heat sinks, and ammo. Can sustainably dps down opposing mechs
    
  • 1 AC20 1 LPPC, use 1 O ST - side stacked AC20/LPPC pinpoint build
• Any CT, use O side torsos and ballistic arms - AC20 2 small lasers
  
• Any CT, use OX side torsos and missile left arm - MRM20 and MRM30, quirked for ~3 second cooldown

These are builds optimized to pump out the damage and allow you to overwhelm opponents. Now, you probably shouldn't be yolo-ing, and you do need to spread damage like any other IS XL mech, but frankly I think any pilot (including certain streamers) calling the Black Hawk KU a weak mech isn't using it correctly. It's incredibly strong.

[-Ramrod-]

BlueDevilspawn, on 24 April 2024 - 08:35 PM, said:

I'll be blunt and straightforward; the prevailing view of the mech (if you're playing it correctly as an IS XL mech) is that it's ridiculously strong. It has the HP of a 60 tonner plus extra survival quirks, in the hitbox size of a squat 50 tonner. In other words (again if you're playing it correctly and spreading damage/spamming JJ) it's very survivable.

Some of the very viable builds -

• OX so8 - 14 ERML, 3 DHS, can strip armor for a 4th extra DHS. Thanks to -20% heat you can easily stagger alpha the arms left/right twice.
  
• OX so8 - 6 MPL (quirked to allow 7 but 6 is more sustainable) and 8 ERSL. Again due to the medium laser family heat quirk, very sustainable
  
• O so8 - 2 snubs (torso) 10 small lasers, Crusader-6T imitation. I (and many others) are rolling in 1K games in this build
  
• Any CT, use OX side torsos for heat, use both ballistic arms builds
  
  • 2 AC5 - has more dps than a 6 AC5 Mauler
    
  • 2 UAC2 - you physically can't click the fire button fast enough to shoot off cooldown, a bullet storm
    
  • 2 UAC5 - needs some armor strip but can crap out damage
    
  • 1 UAC5 - a bit meme-ish but the extra weight is put into max armor, heat sinks, and ammo. Can sustainably dps down opposing mechs
    
  • 1 AC20 1 LPPC, use 1 O ST - side stacked AC20/LPPC pinpoint build
• Any CT, use O side torsos and ballistic arms - AC20 2 small lasers
  
• Any CT, use OX side torsos and missile left arm - MRM20 and MRM30, quirked for ~3 second cooldown

These are builds optimized to pump out the damage and allow you to overwhelm opponents. Now, you probably shouldn't be yolo-ing, and you do need to spread damage like any other IS XL mech, but frankly I think any pilot (including certain streamers) calling the Black Hawk KU a weak mech isn't using it correctly. It's incredibly strong.

Key phrase "Isn't using it correctly". And a majority of players do not know how to do that.

Edited by -Ramrod-, 24 April 2024 - 08:41 PM.

[BlueDevilspawn]

-Ramrod-, on 24 April 2024 - 08:40 PM, said:

Key phrase "Isn't using it correctly". And a majority of players do not know how to do that.

Fair, but it also puts the lie to the point that the mech is weak (which it's not, to be clear).

[Onigato69]

Zerrrdoerer, on 24 April 2024 - 04:11 PM, said:

finally an accurate review of the mech, carriying my 20$ to my dealer now instead

I have had some good games in the laser and ballistic variants, but the forced side torso vulnerability is a huge issue. Once the player base realizes that and learns to target those areas this mech will die fast. It is similar to the Fafnir in the side torso is a big hitbox from the side and the arms don't block it, making it vulnerable from every angle. Good side-twisting skills will mitigate pinpoint damage, but things like LBX, missiles, and SB gauss shred the hell out of you. If you don't devote points to radar deprivation LRMs will destroy you so fast it is almost comical.

With pushing almost all of your armor to the front it only takes about 100ish points of damage to kill the mech from the front/side (50ish from the back), and only 75ish to remove an arm and half your weapons. Walk out in front of two mechs under ECM you didn't know were there, good luck. If you push all your armor forward most backstabbers will kill you before you can turn around if ambushed.

This coupled with the limited tonnage for weapons for a heavy, really restricts what you can do with it. You can barely put two PPC's in it, some lights have more weapon tonnage. I get it, on paper it is a fast heavy with jump jets, which limits weapon tonnage, but it is very limited on configurability. To help protect it they should have removed a jump jet and give it ECM.

Skilled players will get it to perform, but they would with any mech. Average players will have a lot of high-low games and fall to the slot-machine trap. Keep pulling the handle and hope for high numbers, when in reality they are not doing well overall in averages.

They need to make an IS Omni-mech quirk removing the XL vulnerability, or provide some serious structure quirks to the side torsos. As it is, this is a heavy that plays like a medium, with light mech damage vulnerabilities.

[Will9761]

If all goes well with the Black Hawk KU and its testing of IS OmniTech, then I could see the rest of these IS Omnis coming out. In these orders.

1. Reused MWO Assets:
Arctic Fox
Centurion OminMech
Blackjack OmniMech
Firestarter OmniMech
Perseus

2. The first IS Omni
Raptor

3. Mechwarrior 3 OmniMechs
Avatar
Sunder
I know that the Owens and Strider was in MW3 as well, but in MWO they would get whooped, by their BattleMech predecessors.

4. Mechcommander 2
Men Shen

5. Mechwarior 4: Mercenaries OmniMechs
Templar
Hauptmann

6. Word of Blake Celestial Series OmniMechs
Malak
Preta
Grigori
Deva
*Seraph
*Archangel
*Assuming that the retractable blades would act as bolt-ons, they could exist, but the Prime (Invictus) variants would be ruled out since we don't have MMLs and the Plasma Rifle yet.

Edited by Will9761, 25 April 2024 - 02:47 PM.

[Tarl Cabot]

Will9761, on 24 April 2024 - 05:43 PM, said:

I agree with you on that. Another part that plays into the Black Hawk KU is Engine mentality. Whenever you are piloting mechs with Standard, Clan XL or Light Fusion Engines, you feel like Rambo and that you can take on the world, but with the IS XL, you have to be a bit more cautious about where you have to strike. And given the one torso loss rule with the IS XL, it forces your mind into survival mode and think tactically in order to stay alive.

Reworking the XL would help some, and not just for this Omni but potential future Omni and other regular battlemechs being equipped with a XL. It would put the engine on more even footing as the other engines, with the differences occurring with whom is redlining the Heatbar for when that first ST is lost.

And best that, more potential sales, with an engine that cannot be switched out, it is a good way to setup any potential future MWO-type game. It also means that for most player may opt to purchase two version of the same engine rating for the same mech line, simply due to different requirements needed, i.e. needing to open up crit slots to equip weapons in the ST.

I figured I would likely update from LFE to XL in about 20% of my mechs, some a with a different engine rating for more speed, or able to drop Endo to free up some slots but at a smaller loss of tonnage but to add a few more HS and an additional component or larger item while not sacrificing a min speed, , etc. For some it would not matter since a number of IS mechs have a low engine caps, and some of those run a STD engine, since upping the engine rating only added a few extra KPS but would return that heat/mobility penalty when a ST is lost.

But then I may also thinking of my team mates. Many games are lost in the mechlab, and having a player equip a XL in a mech, and have them taken out with a lost of one of the ST is different that if it was the CT, headshot or both legs. Removing them from the battlefield means the reds have one less target to worry about, one less annoyance with fewer weapons shooting back at them.

[Raffen Volt]

Not a fan of mechs with all or the most powerful weapons in the arms. With so many Mechs boating ballistics or energy, one or two solid hits is all it takes to disarm (no pun intended) your Mech.

[Void Angel]

BlueDevilspawn, on 24 April 2024 - 08:46 PM, said:

Fair, but it also puts the lie to the point that the mech is weak (which it's not, to be clear).

Heh. I didn't get the pack because I thought it was a Legendary at first - I might reconsider.

[WAAAGH WAGON]

For me HAWK-KU is a very strange mech.
The build on 2AC-2 (+T2 comp) is beautiful! It's just like 2 RAC5 with no heat, jam and with instant fire. It's beautiful.
And 14 eML variants also play well for me.

But.
I look at the HAWK-KU and then I look at the CRT-6T. I think there is some mystery here.
I look at the left arm with 2 missile slots, and then I look at the right arm and I don't see the same arm on the other side...

Is this a good mech? Yes.
Is it a weird mech? Yes.
Do I like it? The version with the ballistic slots is definitely yes! It's something unique. But otherwise, the clan nova in my opinion provides just more variety in terms of build options. Much like some of the spheroid analogs...