49 replies to this topic

[Gustav Kuriga]

So congratulations PGI, you somehow managed to recreate the MG issue from when they were introduced, except worse because now those light ballistic mechs do precision damage on a single part instead of spreading it all over the enemy mech. How you didn't realize the issue that would occur when you gave light mechs an AC-20 for less than half the weight is beyond me. The Pirahna was already completely unhinged which made many light mechs obsolete in-game when introduced. Now it's just broken beyond repair.

[Meep Meep]

Mag/ap is a damage over time weapon even boated. Shoot them when they go to shoot you. When something like a fle19 rolls up on you don't panic and start twisting. Just calmly line up your shot and kill it. Will it get in some damage as you do this? Sure. Maybe a couple or three shots. But in most cases you only need one shot to either leg or core it so better to just wipe it asap instead of letting it peck away as you try to panic shoot it.

[martian]

Gustav Kuriga, on 30 April 2024 - 11:22 PM, said:

So congratulations PGI, you somehow managed to recreate the MG issue from when they were introduced, except worse because now those light ballistic mechs do precision damage on a single part instead of spreading it all over the enemy mech. How you didn't realize the issue that would occur when you gave light mechs an AC-20 for less than half the weight is beyond me. The Pirahna was already completely unhinged which made many light mechs obsolete in-game when introduced. Now it's just broken beyond repair.

Both weapons also have some downsides:

• Clan Anti-personnel Gauss Rifle weighs 0.5 ton, while the standard Clan Machine Gun weighs 0.25 ton. Where you would boat 10 Clan MGs, you can equip 5 APGRs only (for the same tonnage).
  
• Inner Sphere Magshot takes up two equipment slots, while the standard IS Machine Gun needs just one slot (for the same weight). If you add endo-steel construction, ferro-fibrous armor, double heat sinks, extralight engine shielding and other stuff, you can have a problem with finding enough room for boating Magshots.

And of course, the basic rule still stands: Just shoot that damned light!

• Both APGR and Mashot have the effective range of 270 metres.
  
• Many medium, heavy and assault 'Mechs are armed with weapons with range of 800+ metres and they sport massive - often pinpoint or hitscan - alpha strikes.
  
• And if everything fails, use Streak SRMs to annihilate those pesky light 'Mechs.

[MarcinT1981]

Meep Meep, on 30 April 2024 - 11:43 PM, said:

But in most cases you only need one shot to either leg or core it so better to just wipe it asap instead of letting it peck away as you try to panic shoot it.

martian, on 01 May 2024 - 12:00 AM, said:

Both weapons also have some downsides:

• Clan Anti-personnel Gauss Rifle weighs 0.5 ton, while the standard Clan Machine Gun weighs 0.25 ton. Where you would boat 10 Clan MGs, you can equip 5 APGRs only (for the same tonnage).
  

And of course, the basic rule still stands: Just shoot that damned light!

Maybe you should start playing MWO instead of just sitting on the forum and looking at the numbers in the lab.
Previously, before MAGSHOT/APGauss was introduced, micro lights did not have the ability to deal instant damage from 300m. This could be done by 3xLPPC Spider/Urby/Javelin etc... (and mechs like Hero Commando with 4MPL, also almost insta damage), but these little shits couldn't do it. And the previously mentioned mech's are larger, slower and have less agility.
But now they can, Peek from 300 m in 0.1 s and hide (if he has MASC, it's even better), and shoot and when you come closer, he will run away again.
What kind of stupid advice is this, shoot at the light's, one clean shot and you will kill them. Because they will be standing and waiting so that they are so easy to hit, I understand? Does this mean that server lag has disappeared? Putting Streak's on QP, seriously ******* seriously?

[martian]

MarcinT1981, on 01 May 2024 - 12:41 AM, said:

Maybe you should start playing MWO ...

If you check the attached picture, you can see that I am actually playing MechWarrior Online,
thanks for asking.



You can not obtain the depicted OmniMech without playing MWO.

MarcinT1981, on 01 May 2024 - 12:41 AM, said:

... instead of just sitting on the forum and looking at the numbers in the lab.

Are the numbers, that I posted in my previous post, correct or incorrect?

MarcinT1981, on 01 May 2024 - 12:41 AM, said:

Previously, before MAGSHOT/APGauss was introduced, micro lights did not have the ability to deal instant damage from 300m. This could be done by 3xLPPC Spider/Urby/Javelin etc... (and mechs like Hero Commando with 4MPL, also almost insta damage), but these little shits couldn't do it. And the previously mentioned mech's are larger, slower and have less agility.
But now they can, Peek from 300 m in 0.1 s and hide (if he has MASC, it's even better), and shoot and when you come closer, he will run away again.
What kind of stupid advice is this, shoot at the light's, one clean shot and you will kill them. Because they will be standing and waiting so that they are so easy to hit, I understand?

Other players can hit light 'Mechs. Interesting, is not it?

MarcinT1981, on 01 May 2024 - 12:41 AM, said:

Does this mean that server lag has disappeared?

The server lag is not as horrible as some people make it.

MarcinT1981, on 01 May 2024 - 12:41 AM, said:

Putting Streak's on QP, seriously ******* seriously?

If you can not aim and hit light 'Mechs with other weapons, then you really should try Streak SRMs that do aiming for you.

[Gasboy]

MarcinT1981, on 01 May 2024 - 12:41 AM, said:

Maybe you should start playing MWO instead of just sitting on the forum and looking at the numbers in the lab.
Previously, before MAGSHOT/APGauss was introduced, micro lights did not have the ability to deal instant damage from 300m. This could be done by 3xLPPC Spider/Urby/Javelin etc... (and mechs like Hero Commando with 4MPL, also almost insta damage), but these little shits couldn't do it. And the previously mentioned mech's are larger, slower and have less agility.
But now they can, Peek from 300 m in 0.1 s and hide (if he has MASC, it's even better), and shoot and when you come closer, he will run away again.
What kind of stupid advice is this, shoot at the light's, one clean shot and you will kill them. Because they will be standing and waiting so that they are so easy to hit, I understand? Does this mean that server lag has disappeared? Putting Streak's on QP, seriously ******* seriously?

According to Jarl's list, martian's in the top 2k, and got in almost 300 games in March. At ten games a day, I'd say that counts as 'playing' MWO.

You're in tier 1 using lag as a defense at not being able to shoot lights? Yeesh, I guess the tier bar doesn't mean anything after all.

[An6ryMan69]

Advice from someone who is not in Tier 1 and so is probably more relevant to many players.

When you come across a dangerous light mech that you don't think you can handle, quickly put as many friendly mechs between you and the light as you can, call out to your team the location of the red light, and let the guys giving "Just shoot the light" advice, go ahead and deal with it themselves. Then move on to supporting your team by taking on bad guys you can kill.

Seriously.

I don't know how often it happens in Tier 1-2, but at lower tiers, besides being able to dance around slower single mechs highly effectively, a single light brawling it out with even a whole group of bigger mechs can create major problems for the bigger mechs, and we often see the last remaining red team mech, a flea or piranha or something, being set upon by 3-6 blue team mechs at the same time, and the little bugger can still be brutal to eventually kill, and may even get a kill or two itself, while being badly outnumbered.

For many Tier 3-5 players, the "Just shoot the light" advice is basically nonsense because if people were capable of doing that, they would not be posting here in the first place. Hence why there are sometimes strong responses to being told this.

That's like telling someone who is asking you financial advice to "Just be rich."

Edited by An6ryMan69, 01 May 2024 - 07:56 AM.

[pattonesque]

An6ryMan69, on 01 May 2024 - 07:40 AM, said:

Advice from someone who is not in Tier 1 and so is probably more relevant to many players.

When you come across a dangerous light mech that you don't think you can handle, quickly put as many friendly mechs between you and the light as you can, call out to your team the location of the red light, and let the guys giving "Just shoot the light" advice, go ahead and deal with it themselves. Then move on to supporting your team by taking on bad guys you can kill.

Seriously.

I don't know how often it happens in Tier 1-2, but at lower tiers, besides being able to dance around slower single mechs highly effectively, a single light brawling it out with even a whole group of bigger mechs can create major problems for the bigger mechs, and we often see the last remaining red team mech, a flea or piranha or something, being set upon by 3-6 blue team mechs at the same time, and the little bugger can still be brutal to eventually kill, and may even get a kill or two itself, while being badly outnumbered.

For many Tier 3-5 players, the "Just shoot the light" advice is basically nonsense because if people were capable of doing that, they would not be posting here in the first place. Hence why there are sometimes strong responses to being told this.

That's like telling someone who is asking you financial advice to "Just be rich."

don't listen to this defeatist tripe, shooting the light (and enemies in general) is pretty much the point of the game. I believe in all of your abilities to Just Shoot The Light

[LordNothing]

i have to admit the fact it was so deadly probibly had more to do with its crit power than its actual damage numbers. even a warthog tops out at a 28 point alpha. i suspect that now that crit power has been nerfed, it wont do as well.

[CFC Conky]

I don't seem to do as well with the new mini-gauss guns as I do with MGs. The mechs that can boat them are usually very squishy so I have to wait for open components anyway and for those I prefer using LMGs.

But that's just me, I'm not trying to offer any advice on how to play (not allowed, not T1 ).

Good hunting,
CFC Conky

[Gustav Kuriga]

Maybe try light hunting with the ap gauss build. That's what it's great for. Sincerely, someone who mains the ******* locust. I love these people trying to give me advice about how to kill lights as if my most played mech isn't a ******* locust.

[Gustav Kuriga]

Gasboy, on 01 May 2024 - 05:27 AM, said:

According to Jarl's list, martian's in the top 2k, and got in almost 300 games in March. At ten games a day, I'd say that counts as 'playing' MWO.

You're in tier 1 using lag as a defense at not being able to shoot lights? Yeesh, I guess the tier bar doesn't mean anything after all.

martian probably also thought MGs were perfectly alright when they were first introduced. Most of the top players I've seen are the ******** who think that point and click adventure is the best kind of gameplay for the health of the game. They're the [Redacted] who put two points of armor on their back then complain about lights stripping their back and weapons.

[pattonesque]

Gustav Kuriga, on 01 May 2024 - 11:46 AM, said:

martian probably also thought MGs were perfectly alright when they were first introduced. Most of the top players I've seen are the ******** who think that point and click adventure is the best kind of gameplay for the health of the game. They're the [Redacted] who put two points of armor on their back then complain about lights stripping their back and weapons.

most of the folks who put two points of armor on their back, myself included, do not complain about lights stripping their back and weapons because *we're looking to prevent lights from getting behind us in the first place*. Many secret techniques exist to make this possible, such as *looking at the minimap," "paying attention to what's around you," and, shockingly, "shooting the enemy so they can't get behind you"

[Quicksilver Aberration]

An6ryMan69, on 01 May 2024 - 07:40 AM, said:

Advice from someone who is not in Tier 1 and so is probably more relevant to many players.

:wat:

Taking advice from someone who isn't tier 1 is pretty much how you avoid improving and learning how to play the game. The skill level in this game of the population left over is just abysmal compared to what it used to be and the "anti-meta" attitude only perpetuates it. Be unwilling to put the time in is understandable, but being obstinant just because seems a bit ridiculous no? I mean you don't have to be tier 1 to have understanding of how to play the game, but most people who understand find themselves up there.

That said, there was talk on the cauldron discord some people were discussing reducing light/pseudo light agility to help make them more consistently hittable (especially for dakka), but would likely need more armor as compensation to keep them relevant. I don't know that it would take as the original discussion was more to make dakka better for more than just farming slow assaults and afk players.

Edited by Quicksilver Aberration, 01 May 2024 - 12:28 PM.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Gustav Kuriga, on 01 May 2024 - 11:46 AM, said:

Most of the top players I've seen are the ******** who think that point and click adventure is the best kind of gameplay for the health of the game.

If point n click adventure is so easy, why are so many people so bad at it?

[KursedVixen]

Gustav Kuriga, on 01 May 2024 - 11:46 AM, said:

martian probably also thought MGs were perfectly alright when they were first introduced. Most of the top players I've seen are the ******** who think that point and click adventure is the best kind of gameplay for the health of the game. They're the [Redacted] who put two points of armor on their back then complain about lights stripping their back and weapons.

Martian and a couple others are reasons i ignore tier ones.

Quicksilver Aberration, on 01 May 2024 - 12:23 PM, said:

:wat:

Taking advice from someone who isn't tier 1 is pretty much how you avoid improving and learning how to play the game. The skill level in this game of the population left over is just abysmal compared to what it used to be and the "anti-meta" attitude only perpetuates it. Be unwilling to put the time in is understandable, but being obstinant just because seems a bit ridiculous no? I mean you don't have to be tier 1 to have understanding of how to play the game, but most people who understand find themselves up there.

That said, there was talk on the cauldron discord some people were discussing reducing light/pseudo light agility to help make them more consistently hittable (especially for dakka), but would likely need more armor as compensation to keep them relevant. I don't know that it would take as the original discussion was more to make dakka better for more than just farming slow assaults and afk players.

some people don't like playing meta....

[Meep Meep]

MarcinT1981, on 01 May 2024 - 12:41 AM, said:

Maybe you should start playing MWO instead of just sitting on the forum and looking at the numbers in the lab.
Previously, before MAGSHOT/APGauss was introduced, micro lights did not have the ability to deal instant damage from 300m. This could be done by 3xLPPC Spider/Urby/Javelin etc... (and mechs like Hero Commando with 4MPL, also almost insta damage), but these little shits couldn't do it. And the previously mentioned mech's are larger, slower and have less agility.
But now they can, Peek from 300 m in 0.1 s and hide (if he has MASC, it's even better), and shoot and when you come closer, he will run away again.
What kind of stupid advice is this, shoot at the light's, one clean shot and you will kill them. Because they will be standing and waiting so that they are so easy to hit, I understand? Does this mean that server lag has disappeared? Putting Streak's on QP, seriously ******* seriously?

Umm lrn2aim then? Your inability to hit a fragile light with the 50~90 pinpoint damage of most common builds isn't the games fault after all.

[pattonesque]

KursedVixen, on 01 May 2024 - 12:57 PM, said:

some people don't like playing meta....

ok but what does this mean exactly. Because if it's "I don't like playing a certain type of build like laservom" then there are a bunch of other effective archetypes out there

[Sneaky Snek]

MarcinT1981, on 01 May 2024 - 12:41 AM, said:

Maybe you should start playing MWO instead of just sitting on the forum and looking at the numbers in the lab.
Previously, before MAGSHOT/APGauss was introduced, micro lights did not have the ability to deal instant damage from 300m. This could be done by 3xLPPC Spider/Urby/Javelin etc... (and mechs like Hero Commando with 4MPL, also almost insta damage), but these little shits couldn't do it. And the previously mentioned mech's are larger, slower and have less agility.
But now they can, Peek from 300 m in 0.1 s and hide (if he has MASC, it's even better), and shoot and when you come closer, he will run away again.
What kind of stupid advice is this, shoot at the light's, one clean shot and you will kill them. Because they will be standing and waiting so that they are so easy to hit, I understand? Does this mean that server lag has disappeared? Putting Streak's on QP, seriously ******* seriously?

Groundbound 20 tonners are hardly a problem

Gustav Kuriga, on 01 May 2024 - 11:46 AM, said:

martian probably also thought MGs were perfectly alright when they were first introduced. Most of the top players I've seen are the ******** who think that point and click adventure is the best kind of gameplay for the health of the game. They're the dipshits who put two points of armor on their back then complain about lights stripping their back and weapons.

I run 1 point of back armor. If I get backstabbed I know it's a miss play on my part, so I play better and don't get backstabbed.

An6ryMan69, on 01 May 2024 - 07:40 AM, said:

Advice from someone who is not in Tier 1 and so is probably more relevant to many players.

Not saying all T1 players are great, but that kind of mentality explains your below average stats.

All of you quoted have negative W/L & Negative K/D's lol
https://leaderboard....0D%0AAn6ryman69

[Quicksilver Aberration]

KursedVixen, on 01 May 2024 - 12:57 PM, said:

some people don't like playing meta....

pattonesque, on 01 May 2024 - 01:16 PM, said:

ok but what does this mean exactly. Because if it's "I don't like playing a certain type of build like laservom" then there are a bunch of other effective archetypes out there

The irony is that most people that are "anti-meta" don't even know what the meta is, because popular =/= powerful especially when the tiers you play against regularly are the same "anti-meta" vein of players.

It's even more apparent if they think good players are part of the "blue lightsaber brigade" when they fail to realize, there's a significant chunk of the population that doesn't even play QP anymore and only play comp but also that most of us prefer midrange over blue lightsabers for QP farming.

Edited by Quicksilver Aberration, 01 May 2024 - 02:12 PM.