33 replies to this topic

[KursedVixen]

Been messing around with weapons a bit, and i have to ask what is the point of the plasma cannon? for 3 tons i get a weapon that doesn't shut someone down, does less damage than a medium pulse laser at more range slightly slower reload/recharge? so what's the point? it cancels ecm yeah but for the same tonnage and space i can mount a medium laser pulse laser and probe or for less weight a medium pulse and light probe or a tag and a medium pulse laser i don't really see a point.

It either needs to ramp up someones heat alot more or do a bit more damage to be viable i think....

Edited by KursedVixen, 02 May 2024 - 07:32 PM.

[ScrapIron Prime]

It’s pinpoint out past 500m for 3 tons, and it busts ECM. The heat applied to your target is minimal. I’ve found the best use for it is to mount a pair of them on a medium or heavy mech loaded with streaks so you can blast lock ECM mechs and unload missiles on them. The ECM stays disrupted for longer than the plasma’s cooldown.

[KursedVixen]

still think it should ramp up a targets heat or do more damage not counting splash.

Edited by KursedVixen, 02 May 2024 - 10:37 PM.

[Meep Meep]

It still has a few more balance passes left. They intentionally released the new weapons in underperforming states as they don't want to repeat things like snubaggeddon etc. Easier and less stress all around to buff them a bit each patch till the right level is found than try to dial back.

[KursedVixen]

Meep Meep, on 02 May 2024 - 11:16 PM, said:

It still has a few more balance passes left. They intentionally released the new weapons in underperforming states as they don't want to repeat things like snubaggeddon etc. Easier and less stress all around to buff them a bit each patch till the right level is found than try to dial back.

HAGs were fine the second pass if you ask me of all the weapons released during that patch i was killed by the hyper gauss at least 4 times. though for ppcs i can understand i hope the plasma ppc gets a upgrade in damage just a bit and some heat increase like perhaps a constant increse for like 20 seconds or so i dunno.

[Samziel]

You could ask the same questions about LPPC. Deals same amount of damage as medium laser while weighing 3x more. Still LPPC is often used. It just has a different use than with lasers. I dont know if plasma cannons are good enough yet though. I dont think they'll touch the heat damage since they didnt seem to want it in the first place. Heat damage is not a fun mechanic to deal with.

Edited by Samziel, 03 May 2024 - 12:37 AM.

[martian]

KursedVixen, on 02 May 2024 - 07:32 PM, said:

Been messing around with weapons a bit, and i have to ask what is the point of the plasma cannon?

You personally have wanted it, remember?

These are your own requests:

KursedVixen, on 07 December 2023 - 07:46 PM, said:

Plasma rifles would be nice ,but you'd have to make the clan one do damage too instead of just heat.

Cauldron / PGI has granted your wish ....

The new Clan Plasma Cannon combines both the physical damage and heat.

KursedVixen, on 24 October 2023 - 10:51 AM, said:

Light PPC.

or give clans one

Cauldron / PGI has granted your wish ....

The new Clan Plasma Cannon is pretty much the Clan equivalent of IS Light PPC.

KursedVixen, on 30 October 2023 - 08:12 PM, said:

I imagine the clan light PPC would have slightly longer cooldown than the IS one...

Cauldron / PGI has granted your wish ....

The new Clan Plasma Cannon really has a half second longer cooldown.

KursedVixen, on 29 October 2023 - 02:31 PM, said:

in an ever increasing push to keep up with the technology race the clans have created their own versions of the light PCC

Clan Light ERPP (CLERPP)

weight: 3 tons
Critical Slots 2
Heat:6
Total damage 10
Optimium range 570
Max range 1080
projectile speed:1350

Cauldron / PGI has granted your wish ....

I mean, seriously, did you really expect that the Clan equivalent of IS Light PPC (5.5 damage) would do 10 damage? LOL

KursedVixen, on 02 May 2024 - 07:32 PM, said:

for 3 tons i get a weapon that doesn't shut someone down, does less damage than a medium pulse laser at more range slightly slower reload/recharge? so what's the point?

The point was to give the Clan Players something like IS Light PPC, as per your own request.

The new Clan Plasma Cannon is very similar - albeit not identical - to IS Light PPC.

KursedVixen, on 02 May 2024 - 07:32 PM, said:

it cancels ecm yeah but for the same tonnage and space i can mount a medium laser pulse laser and probe or for less weight a medium pulse and light probe or a tag and a medium pulse laser i don't really see a point.

You mean, as usual?

No problem, I will tell you.

The new Clan Plasma Cannon has much longer range than Clan Medium pulse laser and Clan Active Probe. Thus, you can hit enemy ECM-carrying 'Mech a few hundred metres far from you and disable enemy ECM suite, much farther than Clan AP / Light AP would be capable of. Therefore, you can get lock for your missiles for the few crucial seconds when you need it.

KursedVixen, on 02 May 2024 - 07:32 PM, said:

It either needs to ramp up someones heat alot more or do a bit more damage to be viable i think....

May I remind you that IS Light PPC has no heat effect at all?

Also, may I remind you that IS Light PPC deals comparable damage?

Edited by martian, 03 May 2024 - 12:09 PM.

[Battlemaster56]

ScrapIron Prime, on 02 May 2024 - 07:42 PM, said:

It’s pinpoint out past 500m for 3 tons, and it busts ECM. The heat applied to your target is minimal. I’ve found the best use for it is to mount a pair of them on a medium or heavy mech loaded with streaks so you can blast lock ECM mechs and unload missiles on them. The ECM stays disrupted for longer than the plasma’s cooldown.

It quite nice on my HGN-IIC B atm 39 poptart build, deals with that one assault mech with ecm in the backline when poptarting.

[Alex Morgaine]

martian, on 03 May 2024 - 05:22 AM, said:

KILLER INSTINCT

ULTRA COMBO combo ombo....

Edited by Alex Morgaine, 03 May 2024 - 03:13 PM.

[Alex Morgaine]

Side note:
How dead on arrival would Plasma have been if it had been essentially a flamer with x shots[say times 100 to represent real time vs ten second turns] and 0 damage?

Edited by Alex Morgaine, 03 May 2024 - 03:20 PM.

[KursedVixen]

Alex Morgaine, on 03 May 2024 - 03:19 PM, said:

Side note:
How dead on arrival would Plasma have been if it had been essentially a flamer with x shots[say times 100 to represent real time vs ten second turns] and 0 damage?

It neede to have damage to be viable wish it were 5 pinpoint though.... I noticed the plasma pcc has the same range as the proto ac 4....

Edited by KursedVixen, 03 May 2024 - 04:05 PM.

[w0qj]

For Assault mechs boating AC5 + Light PPC boating is quite fun on the IS side, also strips ECM from mechs from a distance as a bonus!

Amongst my IS favourites:
ANH-2A: 6xAC5, or 5xAC5 + 1xLight_PPC (now with LAC5 options also)
FNR-5: 4xAC5 + 2xLight_PPC + ECM (now with LAC5 options also)

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
==>And now Clan mechs have similar CAC5 + Plasma_PPC build choices!
DWF-C with 6xCAC5 + JJ + ECM, or 4xCAC5 + 2xPlasma_PPC + JJ + ECM (not sure about PAC4 replacing CAC5)
DWF-A(P): same as DWF-C on steriods, but without ECM/JJ.

The point is, it's very easy to set up Clan Assault mechs to boat CAC5 + Plasma_PPC; many mechs have mixed ballistic/energy hardpoints!

(The tried and tested ballistic+energy setup is still 4xCAC10 + ERPPC on the KDK-3, SR-1, or similar mechs. ymmv)

Edited by w0qj, 03 May 2024 - 04:55 PM.

[KursedVixen]

w0qj, on 03 May 2024 - 04:13 PM, said:

For Assault mechs boating AC5 + Light PPC boating is quite fun on the IS side, also strips ECM from mechs from a distance as a bonus!

Amongst my IS favourites:
ANH-2A: 6xAC5, or 5xAC5 + 1xLight_PPC (now with LAC5 options also)
FNR-5: 4xAC5 + 2xLight_PPC + ECM (now with LAC5 options also)

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
==>And now Clan mechs have similar AC5 + Plasma_PPC build choices!
DWF-C with 6xCAC5 + JJ + ECM, or 4xCAC5 + 2xPlasma_PPC + JJ + ECM (not so sure about PAC4 replacing AC5 though)
DWF-A(P)

The point is, it's very easy to set up Clan Assault mechs to boat CAC5 + Plasma_PPC; many mechs have mixed ballistic/energy hardpoints!

(The tried and tested ballistic+energy setup is still 4xCAC10 + ERPPC on the KDK-3, SR-1, or similar mechs. ymmv)

For smaller mechs the pac 4 could work if your short on tonnage they're the same size as C-ac2's the only problem is their reload rate i think that may need adjusted a little.

with a couple tweaks to my build i've managed to replace the tag laser on my howl with a plasma ppc seems to work well enough to disable ecm or just be a damage dealer.

though i think the plasma ppc projectile should be green instead of blue.


Anybody know of a good mech that can carry a fair amount of plasma cannons?

Edited by KursedVixen, 03 May 2024 - 06:58 PM.

[Wraith 1]

It's a bit harder to justify running a plasma than an LPPC because 2LPPC is strictly better than 1 PPC or ER-PPC, but 2 plasmas are more of a sidegrade to a C-ER-PPC. Faster cooldown, better DPH, and very slightly better pinpoint/splash ratio, but lower alpha strike and much less range. A decision that's a no-brainer for IS mixed ballistic builds is more of a "maybe I'll consider it if my other weapons sync better with the plasma." on the Clan side.

That doesn't necessarily mean the weapon has to be buffed to compete with the C-ER-PPC, the DPH is enough to justify running it a lot of the time, but it's not going to be as ubiquitous as the LPPC with its current design.

I do wish it had more heat damage though. I'm fine with it remaining a flavor mechanic, but the current heat damage will be dissipated in roughly a tenth of a second with no skills or extra heatsinks. That's not a flavor mechanic, that's the kind of thing nobody ever finds out about without datamining or patch notes. It will never be impactful or noticable in an actual match. It's like the Lacroix flavored water of flavor mechanics.

[KursedVixen]

Wraith 1, on 03 May 2024 - 08:04 PM, said:

It's a bit harder to justify running a plasma than an LPPC because 2LPPC is strictly better than 1 PPC or ER-PPC, but 2 plasmas are more of a sidegrade to a C-ER-PPC. Faster cooldown, better DPH, and very slightly better pinpoint/splash ratio, but lower alpha strike and much less range. A decision that's a no-brainer for IS mixed ballistic builds is more of a "maybe I'll consider it if my other weapons sync better with the plasma." on the Clan side.

That doesn't necessarily mean the weapon has to be buffed to compete with the C-ER-PPC, the DPH is enough to justify running it a lot of the time, but it's not going to be as ubiquitous as the LPPC with its current design.

I do wish it had more heat damage though. I'm fine with it remaining a flavor mechanic, but the current heat damage will be dissipated in roughly a tenth of a second with no skills or extra heatsinks. That's not a flavor mechanic, that's the kind of thing nobody ever finds out about without datamining or patch notes. It will never be impactful or noticable in an actual match. It's like the Lacroix flavored water of flavor mechanics.

5 damage pinpoint with increased heat or reduced heat cap to targets maybe something that makes the plasma ppc worth using over just it syncs well.

like i wanted an adder with a flamer and dual plamsa ppcs to overheat some mechs.... didn't work out.

Edited by KursedVixen, 03 May 2024 - 08:11 PM.

[martian]

Wraith 1, on 03 May 2024 - 08:04 PM, said:

It's a bit harder to justify running a plasma than an LPPC because 2LPPC is strictly better than 1 PPC or ER-PPC, but 2 plasmas are more of a sidegrade to a C-ER-PPC. Faster cooldown, better DPH, and very slightly better pinpoint/splash ratio, but lower alpha strike and much less range. A decision that's a no-brainer for IS mixed ballistic builds is more of a "maybe I'll consider it if my other weapons sync better with the plasma." on the Clan side.

That doesn't necessarily mean the weapon has to be buffed to compete with the C-ER-PPC, the DPH is enough to justify running it a lot of the time, but it's not going to be as ubiquitous as the LPPC with its current design.

I think that Plasma Cannons are best either on some lighter Clan 'Mechs (just like Light PPCs are good on some lighter IS 'Mechs) or on heavier 'Mechs if they are quirked for it.

Wraith 1, on 03 May 2024 - 08:04 PM, said:

I do wish it had more heat damage though. I'm fine with it remaining a flavor mechanic, but the current heat damage will be dissipated in roughly a tenth of a second with no skills or extra heatsinks. That's not a flavor mechanic, that's the kind of thing nobody ever finds out about without datamining or patch notes. It will never be impactful or noticable in an actual match. It's like the Lacroix flavored water of flavor mechanics.

The heat effect is so weak that it is practically unnoticeable.

BattleTech Plasma weapons have their added heat more pronounced, albeit not crippling.

Edited by martian, 03 May 2024 - 09:09 PM.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Plasma aren't really great for lighter mechs, at least not better than AP Gauss. You run as many AP Gauss as you can stack and maybe throw in a cERPPC for better front loaded damage on initial peeks. Plasma is going to 4.5 heat (from 5.25) next patch which may make it more attractive but honestly, it just looks better for mechs that are trying to run dakka+plasma since the loss in up front damage isn't as problematic. The weapon needs to do more damage (even if it means heat increases) for it to be better for light mechs no different than LPPCs offer for light mechs. Not only do they offer more upfront damage for the tonnage (compared to HPPCs for example), but they also have the faster cycle time on top. Plasmas aren't there yet.

[Gasboy]

Samziel, on 03 May 2024 - 12:36 AM, said:

You could ask the same questions about LPPC. Deals same amount of damage as medium laser while weighing 3x more. Still LPPC is often used. It just has a different use than with lasers. I dont know if plasma cannons are good enough yet though. I dont think they'll touch the heat damage since they didnt seem to want it in the first place. Heat damage is not a fun mechanic to deal with.

LPPC has a longer range and is pinpoint. Works well with dakka, and poptarting. Extra bonus for cancelling out ECM for a short bit.

[Samziel]

Gasboy, on 04 May 2024 - 08:40 AM, said:

LPPC has a longer range and is pinpoint. Works well with dakka, and poptarting. Extra bonus for cancelling out ECM for a short bit.

Yeah I wasnt arguing for LPPC being worse. Just an example that fits plasma cannon too. Different uses. I use LPPC with dakka often.

Edited by Samziel, 04 May 2024 - 08:56 AM.

[KursedVixen]

played around with plasma cannon and yeah either it needs more damage or more heat damage it barely does anything to heat.... at most raises you 2% or at least 1.5% on the heat scale it barley does any heat damage i think it should do more alot more heat damage, something that won't be dissapated by the time you fire again.

I also think it needs it's own ghost heat table but about the same limit as C-ERPPCs maybe 4 ghost heat but not 3.

Maybe have the PlasmaPPC/Plasma Cannon do 6-7 pinpoint with 1.8 in splash raise target het to 5% maybe? other than that i think it's fine...

hopefully in the following patches it'll get the minor buffs it needs to make it worth the 3 tons.

Edited by KursedVixen, 04 May 2024 - 06:44 PM.