59 replies to this topic

[ScrapIron Prime]

Meep Meep, on 08 May 2024 - 01:12 PM, said:

The spread increase will only really matter on the 20s which is needed because atm they are hitting in a tight cluster on center mass. This is the same routine we went through with streaks as they used to center mass seek too.

Oh noes, so the 15 ton lock on weapon was doing a better job with dealing 20 points of damage than the 10 ton lock on weapon was? How horrible.

[Meep Meep]

ScrapIron Prime, on 08 May 2024 - 04:32 PM, said:

Oh noes, so the 15 ton lock on weapon was doing a better job with dealing 20 points of damage than the 10 ton lock on weapon was? How horrible.

It's still going to be an overall buff.

[Moadebe]

Gasboy, on 08 May 2024 - 01:20 PM, said:

Don't thank us, just throw money!

Wish I had the money lol.

[AnAnachronismAlive]

Anyone seen something Zeus'ish in the patch leak?

Edited by AnAnachronismAlive, 09 May 2024 - 05:35 AM.

[Gasboy]

Moadebe, on 09 May 2024 - 04:24 AM, said:

Wish I had the money lol.

We also accept MC and mechpacks.

[Bassault]

ScrapIron Prime, on 07 May 2024 - 12:19 PM, said:

Slowing down the Thunderbolts and increasing the spread. Not surprised, can't have missiles be too effective.

Yeah, exactly. Weapons that take no skill to use should remain weak so no one gets a crutch weapon. I'm glad you understand.

VaelophisNyx, on 07 May 2024 - 01:43 PM, said:

ah. Yet. Another. HAG. Buff.

boy I sure enjoy my entire CT disappearing from trying to peek at all 6/10 times because HAG-boating keeps getting enabled by Cauldron balance

This game is suffering with sniper-syndrome hard. TTK is far, far too low.

Hags are awful, I have no idea what you're talking about. They're inaccurate as **** and way too hot.

[VeeOt Dragon]

Bassault, on 09 May 2024 - 06:21 PM, said:

Yeah, exactly. Weapons that take no skill to use should remain weak so no one gets a crutch weapon. I'm glad you understand.

i would argue that Locking weapons take more skill or rather a broader range of skills than direct fire weapons to use effectively but that is an argument for another thread.

[Bassault]

VeeOt Dragon, on 10 May 2024 - 06:13 AM, said:

i would argue that Locking weapons take more skill or rather a broader range of skills than direct fire weapons to use effectively but that is an argument for another thread.

Well you wouldn't be able to do that because you're wrong. Lockon weapons have a low skill floor and low skill ceiling which garners somewhat diminished results compared to direct fire. That doesn't somehow mean it takes more skill to be effective, it's simply not possible because of the limitations of the weapon that plays itself for you.

[KursedVixen]

Samziel, on 08 May 2024 - 05:56 AM, said:

HAGs have been terrible as of late. 20% nerf to pinpoint/bullet was big. The weapon spreads the damage anyway as long as the target aint a potato. Havent really seen them since the nerf. Gauss is just much better for long range anyways.

Dunno if Tbolts were op but they certainly felt very strong.

Tbolts are oddly ct specific HAgs were fine if you didn't stand around like a potato. i think the problem is that Hags broke the sniper meta that was present at the time.... their spread was such that at longer ranges unless your standing around as said they were not a problem but I understand why they are not as prevelant now that they got a huge undeserved nerf because 'clan'

Bassault, on 10 May 2024 - 07:38 AM, said:

Well you wouldn't be able to do that because you're wrong. Lockon weapons have a low skill floor and low skill ceiling which garners somewhat diminished results compared to direct fire. That doesn't somehow mean it takes more skill to be effective, it's simply not possible because of the limitations of the weapon that plays itself for you.

Yet we have Tbolts with 0 meter minimium do as much damage as a ATM in it's highest damage bracket up until like 300 somthing meters and go straight for your CT for 5 damage per missile., tell me again how PGi or cauldron hates lock on weapons???

Or maybe, hear me out IT"S OKAY BECAUSE IT"S NOT CLAN!!!!

Thunderbolts are a perfect example of why ATMs should have no minimium range even if they do only 1-1.5 damage from 0-60m also a good reason why Atms need their 3 damage per missile back at least at the 61-245m bracket. ATMs spread liek crazy despite built in artemis but thunderbolt 5 has no spread what so ever and does 2.5 to 5 damage usually right to the CT with a lock.

on a similar note it use to be with the PPC if you were in 90 meters it'd do no damage same with heavy ppc but now nope.... rushing a ppc boat is no longer a tactic.... but somehow rushing an ATM Boat is???? this makes no sense

Edited by KursedVixen, 10 May 2024 - 07:58 AM.

[martian]

KursedVixen, on 10 May 2024 - 07:42 AM, said:

Yet we have Tbolts with 0 meter minimium ...

As I have already told you here, Thunderbolt Missiles have minimum range.

[Rhaelcan]

KursedVixen, on 07 May 2024 - 12:38 PM, said:

Other than the jenner IIC armor bonus reduction these look great. though i'm confused to why the clan med pulse needed range upgrades

maybe it's to give the medium pulse a diffrent range than the x-medium pulse


i dunno where to say this but the clan wolfhound needs some energy heat quirks i think.

I also feel like the PAC 4 needs some tweaking maybe reducin it's cooldown a little.

TBH jenners got buffed overall. I know this is hella late, but the side torso armor was NEEDED.

[Meep Meep]

LapisMaddog, on 06 June 2024 - 03:13 PM, said:

there is no sniper meta its actually a brawl meta and it would be quite obvious if pugs knew how to path hags did not get a nerf cause they are clan they were giga and destroying everything so they were over nerfed then now they got buffed and they are mostly balanced and rushing ppc mechs is still a viable tactic instead of it being a auto win and the ppc mech feeling useless you win but with some damage taken and the ppc mech still has a chance if they play really well and comparing tbolt to atm spread is silly cause tbolts aren't supposed to have spread at all they are supposed to be 1 missile no spread but they are nerfed to a few missiles cause that would kill lights too easily (they still kill lights too easily) your clan bias is quite obvious clan and IS is probably one of the most balanced things in mwo

[The6thMessenger]

LapisMaddog, on 06 June 2024 - 03:13 PM, said:

there is no sniper meta its actually a brawl meta and it would be quite obvious if pugs knew how to path hags did not get a nerf cause they are clan they were giga and destroying everything so they were over nerfed then now they got buffed and they are mostly balanced and rushing ppc mechs is still a viable tactic instead of it being a auto win and the ppc mech feeling useless you win but with some damage taken and the ppc mech still has a chance if they play really well and comparing tbolt to atm spread is silly cause tbolts aren't supposed to have spread at all they are supposed to be 1 missile no spread but they are nerfed to a few missiles cause that would kill lights too easily (they still kill lights too easily) your clan bias is quite obvious clan and IS is probably one of the most balanced things in mwo

Might wanna breathe there champ. You're turning blue.

KursedVixen, on 10 May 2024 - 07:42 AM, said:

Or maybe, hear me out IT"S OKAY BECAUSE IT"S NOT CLAN!!!!

This guy still has persecution complex, because Clan tech isn't op?

Bassault, on 09 May 2024 - 06:21 PM, said:

Hags are awful, I have no idea what you're talking about. They're inaccurate as **** and way too hot.

This is a joke right?

Edited by The6thMessenger, 06 June 2024 - 10:17 PM.

[The6thMessenger]

LapisMaddog, on 06 June 2024 - 10:23 PM, said:

no, hags performed worse then gauss pre heat buff unless you were farming

To be fair, I'm actually just back a few days, I don't really have the context.

But I don't get it, do you mean kills? Because pretty sure farming is the point -- with it's high damage per volley, and the lower-heat that will increase the shots before OH, will also make farmng better because you can shoot more.

I was there when HAGs were introduced, I remember when they had spread, when cauldron tried to balance them with high-heat, and then reduced spread into token amount (not enough to do anything, just for the novelty of being there) and eventually removed it, as well as increased volley interval in their intent to quell pop-tarting with HAGs. See their intent is to balance HAGs into long-range, and cap it using heat so it's less ammenable with lasers.

The entire time, I just saw HAGs as damage-farming monster, and it has not changed when I got back. So when the other guy is saying "it's awful", I can't say I agree with that.

Edited by The6thMessenger, 06 June 2024 - 10:33 PM.

[The6thMessenger]

LapisMaddog, on 06 June 2024 - 10:48 PM, said:

cauldron is trying to balance hags into medium range and it only being farming is cause in a 1v1 it would lose cause it generates too much heat when trying to trade at long range it would lose cause of spread/splash/volley so all it could do is farm or shoot mechs that dont see it, it was also really weak against lights so many players preferred gauss

You mean before, or after? Because that's ludicrous. They already sought the effects of that, HAGs were mid-ranged before with the prevalent and powerful HAG-ERML builds. And then they reduced-removed spread, and increased heat to deter laser use, the changes that persists to this very day that make them still better used for long-range molestation, that isn't the typically pathetic LRMs.

In a 1v1 -- you mean they are balancing 1v1, or you were looking at this and justifying changes at a 1v1 setting? Because not every build has to be good in a 1v1.

Also, trades? Like against gauss-peeps and PPCs? You know not every build and weapon has to be employed in a peekaboo manner. Why force a square peg on a round hole?

VaelophisNyx, on 07 May 2024 - 02:50 PM, said:

VeeOt Dragon, on 07 May 2024 - 02:30 PM, said:

yeah HAGs would be much better if they were treated more like S.B. Guass with all the pellets coming out at once with a decent spread. then again this is something that have been saying since they were first implemented.

HAGs should perform like tabletop; 1 damage per shot, 20/30/40 per burst. You shouldn't be able to dumpster massive alpha *at ranges over 1.5Km* with pinpoint precision. It only gets more oppressive the closer you get as well!

Pretty sure Tiy0s already clarified this. Unlike missiles, ballistic shells are affected by the environment, so having shells of near the same amount is unhealthy.

I usually just trust them if their reasoning is from the technical side. Plus PPFLD shells in a volley is kinda better.

Quicksilver Aberration, on 07 May 2024 - 05:53 PM, said:

Keep in mind they already of splash damage so at most you are getting 64 damage in a single component for 2 HAG40s, that's less than most laser alphas.

Wait, I thought they rolled that back?

Edited by The6thMessenger, 07 June 2024 - 12:30 AM.

[The6thMessenger]

LapisMaddog, on 07 June 2024 - 12:30 AM, said:

1v1s happen a lot

Sure it does, but irrelevant.

LapisMaddog, on 07 June 2024 - 12:30 AM, said:

they are not balancing around 1v1s they are balancing around qp

So 1v1 argument is irrelevant then?

LapisMaddog, on 07 June 2024 - 12:30 AM, said:

and snipers get into 1v1s in qp all the time

So that's like just your observation then, than their actual intent with things? Maybe it's not supposed to compete in a sniping contest?

Can we please get someone actually from the Cauldron here to weigh in on things?

LapisMaddog, on 07 June 2024 - 12:30 AM, said:

if a sniper weapon cant do peekaboo or it does not have exceptional dps it is worthless in the current meta so it has to do either which hags do not have dps and so they have to trade and poke

So maybe HAG ain't a sniper then? Long-range doesn't make one a sniper -- LRMs and AC2s have very long range, and they aren't.

You know what HAG has? Ludicrous damage, that is from long distance, that lends itself well in farming. You seem to discount that, why? It's actually pretty legit use.

So I guess, "if we just disregard your point, then you have no point."?

Edited by The6thMessenger, 07 June 2024 - 12:41 AM.

[The6thMessenger]

LapisMaddog, on 07 June 2024 - 12:46 AM, said:

it isn't just a observation everyone i know says that

... I don't care.

I can just as well get others to say otherwise. Who elected your peers as the arbiters, and why are they more worthy than mine, or everyone else? Such fallacious reasoning.

While I often criticize the Cauldron, in this case however I trust in their judgement than yours.

LapisMaddog, on 07 June 2024 - 12:46 AM, said:

and ludicrous damage at a long range is useless when its spread in multiple bullets and has built in spread its use is a low heat way to boost mid range alphas.

But it's still ludicrous damage, that melts a target, from a distance, that is BTW more effective and fair than LRMs.

You're acting like that damage doesn't mean anything, as if it doesn't compromise the enemy in some way -- it's 40/60/40 directed damage if you kept to GH.

You pointed out Lights vs Gauss before, you might as well argue flamers against gauss is useless because they are heat neutral. Maybe point out Heavies and Assaults vs HAGs?

You also pointed out Laservomit + HAG, as if HAGs can just supplant GRs 1:1 -- funny when IIRC, high heat was introduced exactly to deter such use. So maybe it's only too hot because of human error.

Edited by The6thMessenger, 07 June 2024 - 12:59 AM.

[BUD LIGHT]

lol so sick of all u crybabies bitching about ur LRM's and TB's, they should not be as good as they are considering they take literally no skill to fire, just stand there and wait for someone else to go brawl and get target info for u. literally every other weapon that requires you to aim and fire or lead your projectiles should absolutely destroy you compared to ****** aimbot missiles

Edited by BUD LIGHT, 11 June 2024 - 05:20 AM.

[Heat Skink]

BUD LIGHT, on 11 June 2024 - 05:19 AM, said:

lol so sick of all u crybabies bitching about ur LRM's and TB's, they should not be as good as they are considering they take literally no skill to fire, just stand there and wait for someone else to go brawl and get target info for u. literally every other weapon that requires you to aim and fire or lead your projectiles should absolutely destroy you compared to ****** aimbot missiles

Whut of ATMs?

[The6thMessenger]

BUD LIGHT, on 11 June 2024 - 05:19 AM, said:

lol so sick of all u crybabies bitching about ur LRM's and TB's, they should not be as good as they are considering they take literally no skill to fire, just stand there and wait for someone else to go brawl and get target info for u. literally every other weapon that requires you to aim and fire or lead your projectiles should absolutely destroy you compared to ****** aimbot missiles

It has to be good somehow to be worthy to bring.