66 replies to this topic

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Nine-Ball, on 31 May 2024 - 10:37 AM, said:

I think what would help alot of players is realizing the time it takes for the big guns to get into position.

It takes 10 seconds for a flea to reach X spot on the map.

it takes 15 seconds for any other light to reach X spot on the map.

It takes 45 seconds for an assault to reach X spot on the map...

And so on.

At the very least this should make players more aware of certain spots on the map and not just ignore them because there is nothing to indicate an enemy being in that direction.

Problem is that speeds are highly variable, if speeds were more "stepped" like in TT it would help a lot with knowing timings, no different than it does in games like Counterstrike, CoD, Valorant, etc. Especially with MASC in the mix.

Edited by Quicksilver Aberration, 31 May 2024 - 11:07 AM.

[Gasboy]

KursedVixen, on 31 May 2024 - 07:21 AM, said:

clan weapons

Which ones? Only ones I've ever had issue with were the base ACs and their split fire. Everything else gives up a little something something for being more compact and lighter.

[KursedVixen]

Quicksilver Aberration, on 31 May 2024 - 09:07 AM, said:

If you are having trouble with Clan weapons, then that's more telling about you than the "balance" of Clan weapons.

If you are having trouble telling a joke from serious i think you need your reading comprehension checked.

[Gasboy]

KursedVixen, on 31 May 2024 - 03:49 PM, said:

If you are having trouble telling a joke from serious i think you need your reading comprehension checked.

Text doesn't convey emotions as well as you might think.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

KursedVixen, on 31 May 2024 - 03:49 PM, said:

If you are having trouble telling a joke from serious i think you need your reading comprehension checked.

Considering I've seen you post about how Clans are underpowered in these forums before, I don't think it unreasonable for people to take your text as not a joke, especially on these forums.

[KursedVixen]

Quicksilver Aberration, on 31 May 2024 - 04:53 PM, said:

Considering I've seen you post about how Clans are underpowered in these forums before, I don't think it unreasonable for people to take your text as not a joke, especially on these forums.

ever hear of reverse psychology, if you'd maybe not mention that maybe for once I'd stop yapping about it but once again you proven you want me to whine about it...

Edited by KursedVixen, 31 May 2024 - 05:39 PM.

[cougurt]

1453 R, on 31 May 2024 - 07:20 AM, said:

I'd like to know which weapons are "not viable" for QP, to the point of never being seen. Because as best I can tell, you can name almost any weapon in this game and there's a build or six out there that uses it to good effect. Not, perhaps, at ultra tippy-top comp levels, but we're not talking comp, we're talking basic QP.

brawl is quite strong in comp, overwhelmingly so on some maps. you'll see plenty of SRMs, MGs, red lasers, snubs, etc. being used by teams of all skill levels, including the very top of div A. brawl weapons themselves are plenty good, the issue in QP is that teams are typically uncoordinated and timid, and many players completely fall apart if they're unable to immediately W key face roll things.

[foamyesque]

Gasboy, on 30 May 2024 - 07:22 PM, said:

I think it's be great to have a 2 or 3 mech drop deck so you at least not be totally boned when polar highlands is chosen and you're in a spl mech.

You mean Peaks, right? Highlands has plenty of brawl and backstab opportunities.

[Gasboy]

foamyesque, on 31 May 2024 - 09:19 PM, said:

You mean Peaks, right? Highlands has plenty of brawl and backstab opportunities.

Even Peaks has plenty of brawl and backstab opportunities.

But if you're in a short range mech, you have to 'swim upstream' to get opportunities to fire.

[1453 R]

KursedVixen, on 31 May 2024 - 05:39 PM, said:

ever hear of reverse psychology, if you'd maybe not mention that maybe for once I'd stop yapping about it but once again you proven you want me to whine about it...

The observation "this person has consistently expressed a viewpoint that would make their words come off as intended seriously, rather than as the joke they claim" is not equivalent to "I wish for this person to continue expressing this viewpoint."

[Void Angel]

KursedVixen, on 31 May 2024 - 03:49 PM, said:

If you are having trouble telling a joke from serious i think you need your reading comprehension checked.

The fact that no one could tell you were joking says more about you than it does about them. A sufficiently advanced lunatic is indistinguishable from a casual troll.

KursedVixen, on 31 May 2024 - 05:39 PM, said:

it's your fault I harp on this endlessly, because if you'd just use reverse psychology, I could pretend I was right!

Suuure.

[foamyesque]

Gasboy, on 01 June 2024 - 06:58 AM, said:

Even Peaks has plenty of brawl and backstab opportunities.

But if you're in a short range mech, you have to 'swim upstream' to get opportunities to fire.

It has some, but let's be completely honest here; Peaks has extraordinarily long sightlines across a lot of the approach lanes to the the dominant points. Highlands, on the other hand, is a big map, but as far as cover and access and strong points go it isn't that much different than, say, Canyon.

[Gasboy]

foamyesque, on 01 June 2024 - 07:42 PM, said:

It has some, but let's be completely honest here; Peaks has extraordinarily long sightlines across a lot of the approach lanes to the the dominant points.

You can still sneak up and get into a firing position with little to no indicators of your arrival. Even sit inside the domination circle until they figure out the countdown's stopped.

Quote

Highlands, on the other hand, is a big map, but as far as cover and access and strong points go it isn't that much different than, say, Canyon.

Yep. But with a predilection for long range weapon loadouts wanting to "snipe" or "trade", you still have to walk all over hell's half acre to get into range. Easy if it's just you and that guy, harder when they can snipe at you while you fight their friends.

Where as on smaller maps, it's easier, as there is less map to traverse.

[foamyesque]

Gasboy, on 01 June 2024 - 07:49 PM, said:

You can still sneak up and get into a firing position with little to no indicators of your arrival. Even sit inside the domination circle until they figure out the countdown's stopped.



Yep. But with a predilection for long range weapon loadouts wanting to "snipe" or "trade", you still have to walk all over hell's half acre to get into range. Easy if it's just you and that guy, harder when they can snipe at you while you fight their friends.

Where as on smaller maps, it's easier, as there is less map to traverse.

The spawnpoints on Highlands got moved up. You don't need to cover more ground than any other mid-sized map except in Conquest. Right now it is functionally significantly smaller than Forest Colony.

[Gasboy]

foamyesque, on 01 June 2024 - 08:11 PM, said:

The spawnpoints on Highlands got moved up. You don't need to cover more ground than any other mid-sized map except in Conquest. Right now it is functionally significantly smaller than Forest Colony.

The map's not any smaller, and as far as I can tell, people who want to use range can still do so. Only with the spawn points moved up, the rest of the red team's still close to said snipers, making it a longer walk to get around them. I'm not saying it's impossible.

But having a dropdeck where you could pick one mech from would make things less awkward. All I'm arguing.

[1453 R]

The issue with the whole QP Drop Deck thing is, as always, that it completely invalidates taking anything but the most UltraHyperSuperMeta loadout for a given map. Playing a "brawling map" with anything but a dedicated hyper brawler utterly useless outside 200m? Your entire team screams at you forever and if there was a "vote out of match" function they'd use it to drop you.

People claim that drop deck in QP would increase match diversity, but it really wouldn't do anything of the sort. it would sharply decrease match diversity instead by adding what amounts to a hard-coded requirement to play "The Right 'Mech" for any given map, thereby ensuring that no 'Mech other than 'The Right 'Mech' ever appears on the map. And if you happen to suck with that 'Mech, or don't like that 'Mech, then you're boned and have no recourse because you're just not allowed to play what you actually want to play anymore without 'The Community'(C) screeching at you the entire time for being Bad, Dumb, and Wrong.

Do we really need more reason for the average Puglandian to lambast their team?

[Gasboy]

Quote

Do we really need more reason for the average Puglandian to lambast their team?

They already do that regardless. At least with a selection of mechs you've got a chance at choosing an appropriate mech.

And if folks could have their way, they'd have a button to show mech loadouts on friendlies. That'll never be abused at all. /s

[Quicksilver Aberration]

1453 R, on 04 June 2024 - 05:27 AM, said:

The issue with the whole QP Drop Deck thing is, as always, that it completely invalidates taking anything but the most UltraHyperSuperMeta loadout for a given map. Playing a "brawling map" with anything but a dedicated hyper brawler utterly useless outside 200m? Your entire team screams at you forever and if there was a "vote out of match" function they'd use it to drop you.

I mean all of this already happens just with different goal posts. However this is one of the few games that doesn't allow you to select your loadout after knowing the map and this game is impacted the most by it due to how range works in this game compared to most. Like a lot of things with MWO, it just seemed to go against one of the whole selling points of the game.

The Mechwarrior community is weird in that unlike almost every other gaming community that sees customization as a means to specialize, this community seems to think it should just be about kitchen sink jack-of-all-trades builds. Reminds me of the old Guild Wars community that would've preferred every team be comprised of the same composition, very anti specialization or gimmicks. Either way, this game is about customization, seems a waste to not allow people to play mechs that are tuned for the map.

Edited by Quicksilver Aberration, 04 June 2024 - 07:12 AM.

[1453 R]

I suppose my argument is that allowing people to over-specialize is detrimental to game enjoyment, especially when the playerbase absolutely doggedly refuses to Git Gud.

Great example: HPG. Everybody swears up, down and sideways that HPG is ABSOLUTELY UNPLAYABLE for anything other than a blue-laser sniper or LRM boat BECUZ WAL. Allow players to select any 'Mech in their entire inventory when presented with HPG, and they'll all take a wall sniper because the average Puglandian idiot believes with their whole heart and tiny brain that wall snipers are the only thing that can possibly win a game on HPG.

Except you're a compy player Quicksilver, so you know as well as I do that the average wall sniper in HPG is almost completely ineffectual and anyone with more brain cells than fingernails can very easily outmaneuver most snipers on that map. Wall sniping is a trap, not a Killer Strat...but if you gave Puglandians the choice, ten out of twelve nitwits on every team would be crowding the walls being absolute freaking brain rejects pointlessly spraying ineffectual blue-laser fire at guys twelve hundred meters away on the other wall and wondering why they're not automatically winning just because they picked a Wall Sniper on the Wall Sniper Map.

That would become every single HPG match. Every time. Guaranteed. Games on HPG would be even more utterly identical than they already are because nobody would bring mobile 'Mechs or short-range 'Mechs to HPG, it'd be All (Extremely Bad) Assault "Snipers", All The Time.

Replace "Wall Sniper" with whatever the dominant salty butthurt moron "strat" is for any given map, and you get the idea. Polar Highlands? Each team consists of ten assault-weight LRM bloatboats and two actual semi-competent players desperately trying to do the job of twelve people instead, because "POLAR HAS NO COVER LRMS OP". Never mind that Polar has gobs of cover and lock-on missiles are honestly difficult to use well there due to the sheer abundance of Trench Warfare.

People like to harp on the "kitchen sink" builds, but I feel like a true specialist should aspire to the skills to force their specialization. Are you a brawler that dropped on HPG? Don't ***** about wall snipers - git gud, learn how to move on the map, and bring the brawl to the bad guys. Drop in an LRM 'Mech on Solaris? Git gud - learn how to direct fire and be proper close fire support delivering LRM salvoes from a hundred meters or so behind the main brawl. Just the other day I dropped in a Thunderbolt skirmisher Hellspawn on Solaris, and rather than disconnect and ragequit because "LOK MISILS USLES ON CITY MAP", I looked for the proper openings, angles, and timings and scored nearly five hundred damage. On Solaris, in a Hellspawn armed with nothing but five Thunderbolt-1s.

You can absolutely play specialists outside their maps. You just have to be better at being your specialty than the enemy is at being theirs.

Edited by 1453 R, 04 June 2024 - 08:32 AM.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

1453 R, on 04 June 2024 - 08:20 AM, said:

I suppose my argument is that allowing people to over-specialize is detrimental to game enjoyment, especially when the playerbase absolutely doggedly refuses to Git Gud.

Agree to disagree.

1453 R, on 04 June 2024 - 08:20 AM, said:

Great example: HPG. Everybody swears up, down and sideways that HPG is ABSOLUTELY UNPLAYABLE for anything other than a blue-laser sniper or LRM boat BECUZ WAL. Allow players to select any 'Mech in their entire inventory when presented with HPG, and they'll all take a wall sniper because the average Puglandian idiot believes with their whole heart and tiny brain that wall snipers are the only thing that can possibly win a game on HPG.

Except you're a compy player Quicksilver, so you know as well as I do that the average wall sniper in HPG is almost completely ineffectual and anyone with more brain cells than fingernails can very easily outmaneuver most snipers on that map. Wall sniping is a trap, not a Killer Strat...but if you gave Puglandians the choice, ten out of twelve nitwits on every team would be crowding the walls being absolute freaking brain rejects pointlessly spraying ineffectual blue-laser fire at guys twelve hundred meters away on the other wall and wondering why they're not automatically winning just because they picked a Wall Sniper on the Wall Sniper Map.

That would become every single HPG match. Every time. Guaranteed. Games on HPG would be even more utterly identical than they already are because nobody would bring mobile 'Mechs or short-range 'Mechs to HPG, it'd be All (Extremely Bad) Assault "Snipers", All The Time.

TBH, I don't think we would see that many players that would actually take to the walls even given the choice to specialize, because they are taking awful mechs to begin with. I don't see BLXKNT or whatever their name is for example suddenly not take a Black Knight or start playing the wall and I think that's honestly going to be the more common thing. Bad players still insisting on bad play, bad builds, etc, etc. Maybe if this were 6-7 years ago where you could more consistently get a match where the matchmaker didn't open the floodgates for tier 1 players it'd be a bit different of a story but where we are now where the average skill level of players just seems to have slowly dropped year after year, naw, I don't honestly see that as a legit concern.

Given how easy it is to lose in the mechlab even in comp, the "git gud" argument doesn't really go far. IMO it's a bad excuse for a bad player experience. Here's hoping if we ever get another multiplayer Mechwarrior they don't repeat that mistake.

Edited by Quicksilver Aberration, 04 June 2024 - 09:23 AM.