64 replies to this topic

[martian]

Pyc_MadWolf, on 14 June 2024 - 06:19 AM, said:

Why do you think pro players don't review this video? Although there were reviews for the demo version right away. I'm talking about NGNG, TTB and others. And in general, there is little news about the release date.

PGI has never been especially competent when it came to marketing.

[Jep Jorgensson]

Will9761, on 10 June 2024 - 05:12 PM, said:

...the word fascist is used as an insult to denote a person who has far-right beliefs. And given the political climate we are in, you will hear the words "fascist" or "bigot" constantly. So because PGI added the phrase fascist regime to the Dracs, Far Reach feels that the devs are trying to appeal to a left-leaning audience, which is not the case.

Fun fact: fascism is actually a product of the left according its' own creator Giovanni Gentile, the father of fascism.

Giovanni Gentile, a neo-Hegelian philosopher, was the intellectual author of the “doctrine of fascism,” which he wrote in conjunction with Benito Mussolini. Gentile’s sources of inspiration were thinkers such as Hegel, Nietzsche, and also Karl Marx.

Gentile went so far as to declare “Fascism is a form of socialism, in fact, it is its most viable form.” One of the most common reflections on this is that fascism is itself socialism based on national identity.

https://fee.org/arti...ots-of-fascism/

So if anyone should know what it is, it would be the very guy that invented it.

Will9761, on 10 June 2024 - 05:34 PM, said:

If PGI were to make DLCs for MW5:Clans, I'd love to see them give different Clans story based DLC. Even though Clan Wolf, Jade Falcon and Ghost Bear already had their fair shakes with Mechwarrior 2.

Here are the clans I can see having their own DLCs:

• Clan Wolf
  
• Clan Jade Falcon
  
• Clan Ghost Bear
  
• Clan Nova Cat
  
• Clan Steel Viper
  
• Clan Diamond Shark

As much as I hate to admit it, Hell's Horses should also be on that list.

martian, on 11 June 2024 - 09:56 AM, said:

It was just a normal Clan talk: Inner Sphere greed ... corruption ... Great Houses caused the fall of the Star League ... quoting Kerensky ... etc.

You can read it in BattleTech books.

I have read many battletech novels and nobody was ever accused of being a fascist in any of them, hence what I said.

martian, on 11 June 2024 - 09:56 AM, said:

Why not? A Hell's Horses Loremaster has knowledge of the Terran nineteenth century history. Clan Wolf Khan has knowledge of the Terran twentieth century political history. I see nothing wrong with the fact that this Smoke Jaguar Galaxy Commander has also some knowledge of the history of mankind.

Some Clanners really love history.

Loremaster, Khan, Galaxy Commander. Yes, I can see these people of advanced rank/age reading up on history--it is part of a Loremaster's job after all--but the Galaxy Commander in the trailer was speaking to rank and file mechwarriors which was my point. It makes no sense especially since if he knew what fascism was then he would also know what it is not. The combine was never fascist, ask any drak loyalist and they will tell you the same (I cannot believe that a Clanner like me of all people has to be the one defending the combine).

martian, on 11 June 2024 - 09:56 AM, said:

You are wrong. There are many Star Colonels without Bloodname.

By the way, Star Colonel Tabok - without Bloodname - was taken directly from the BattleTech sourcebook.

Apparently Sarna.net has changed the page on Bloodnames. It used to state that a Bloodname was required to rank up to Star Captain and above.

martian, on 11 June 2024 - 09:56 AM, said:

I see no problem here. Draconis Combine has some features of fascism. Of course, it is not some exact copy of the Italy or Japan of 1920s and 1930s, but obviously close enough for this Clanner.

The Japanese were Imperialists, not fascists. Close is not the same as the same. Otherwise you could make the argument that fascism has exited for thousands of years.


Anyway, everyone should keep posting their suggestions for what they want to see in the game if they want it to happen. I am hoping that the game will be at least good if not great, but I will wait and see.

Edited by Jep Jorgensson, 20 June 2024 - 04:16 PM.

[martian]

Jep Jorgensson, on 20 June 2024 - 03:05 PM, said:

I have read many battletech novels and nobody was ever accused of being a fascist in any of them, hence what I said.

As I said, that speech about the IS corruption, etc. is a pretty standard Clan talk.

Jep Jorgensson, on 20 June 2024 - 03:05 PM, said:

Loremaster, Khan, Galaxy Commander. Yes, I can see these people of advanced rank/age reading up on history--it is part of a Loremaster's job after all--but the Galaxy Commander in the trailer was speaking to rank and file mechwarriors which was my point. It makes no sense especially since if he knew what fascism was then he would also know what it is not. The combine was never fascist, ask any drak loyalist and they will tell you the same (I cannot believe that a Clanner like me of all people has to be the one defending the combine).

That is why I said that Draconis Combine has some features of fascism, not that it is some exact copy of the twentieth century Italy or Japan.

Jep Jorgensson, on 20 June 2024 - 03:05 PM, said:

Apparently Sarna.net has changed the page on Bloodnames. It used to state that a Bloodname was required to rank up to Star Captain and above.

Sarna is not some official BattleTech source. Sarna is just a fan page that any random visitor can edit.

Jep Jorgensson, on 20 June 2024 - 03:05 PM, said:

The Japanese were Imperialists, not fascists. Close is not the same as the same. Otherwise you could make the argument that fascism has exited for thousands of years.

Actually, there are experts arguing that pre-1945 Japan was possibly a fascist state:


From the perspective of a 31st century Clan warrior it is probably close enough.

[Pyc_MadWolf]

To know if Japan was a fascist country during the Second World War or not, watch the films about the Conveyor of Death – Detachment 731. What they did in these camps in relation to the Chinese, the Russians prisoners cannot put it into words. They did not just destroy people en masse, who were simply stolen in Manchuria before the Second World War, ordinary civilians, they put experience there on the living. Infected with viruses, bacteria cut out organs from the living, pregnant women infected the fruits of children, frostbite was engaged, and then the skin was torn from the living. The prisoners were called logs. This is fascism, the extermination of other peoples on a national basis, and they are also the most perverted and mentally unhealthy people on the planet. Of the veterans who were alive until recently, they were still proud of what they were doing there. This is not normal.

Edited by Pyc_MadWolf, 23 June 2024 - 10:56 PM.

[Void Angel]

Wait, wait, are we really asking whether fascism exists in-universe? Of course it does - and the game we're discussing is dedicated to its greatest exemplars within the IP. The Clans are nearly textbook fascists: centralized autocratic government, social hierarchy literally based on genetic origin, regimented social controls, militarism coupled with a belief that war and conquest are rejuvenating forces for the nation - such that their entire society was geared toward prosecuting warfare... It's really all there. The Warden-Crusader controversy doesn't change that, either. Sure, the Wardens (rightly) viewed external conquest of the Inner Sphere as contrary to the dimly-remembered ideals of the Star League, but they were still committed to the rest of it. And the Crusaders... those guys were a popular rebellion or two away from devising final solutions to the "freebirth problem..."

As for real-world fascism, there's problem I see, at least in American politics, in that an increasingly broad array of beliefs and political viewpoints are being labeled "fascism," which causes a pushback from those attacked. It's an issue really too complex and fraught for these forums, but it bears mentioning that this is part of a deliberate strategy on the part of both of our main political parties, designed to wrest control of American politics from each other - and from the people. Those parties' leaders were blindsided when voters on both sides picked non-standard "rebellion" candidates in the 2016 primaries - and when Trump won, they resolved to set the house on fire so that they'd never be caught in the dark again.

With the origins of fascism, remember that what was is "left" and "right" in politics tends to change over time. Marx and Nietzsche were allies in their disdain for religion, for example, but Neitzche's ideas about "master" and "slave" morality is completely at odds with Marxist conceptions of egalitarianism. Fascism today is viewed - somewhat inaccurately - as being a right-wing ideology because it leverages conservative social values and nationalism to support its twisted views. But its roots in 20th-century left-wing politics can also be seen in its emphasis on a strong central government with powerful regulatory effects. Really, I don't see why anyone should claim fascists - leave them on the lunatic fringe where they belong, instead of giving them cover by insisting that your political enemies are all fascists...

As for whether the Empire of Japan was fascist, that's also fraught, but you have to understand that genocide and crimes against humanity are not the sole province of fascism. The Empire's actions in Nanjing and elsewhere don't make them fascist - nor do we need to invoke fascism to be horrified about them. Even racism isn't inherently required for fascism, although its inventors and leaders universally were racist - fascism requires an enemy to despise and fight; racism is simply really good at dehumanizing that enemy. If the Empire was fascist - and it probably qualified - it was so because of how its political systems and ideology were structured.

Edited by Void Angel, 03 July 2024 - 10:03 AM.