110 replies to this topic

[Firewolfslayer]

WTFlo, on 18 June 2024 - 01:26 PM, said:

"A 2-week Patch Science Sale will go live with the patch and include all the usual equipment, weapons, and applicable BattleMechs. So have fun and 'Mech on!"

So this means there's another sale starting today with deployment of the patch? If so, where is it? I don't see anything ingame.
Excuse my impatience, but I heard "sale" and now I'm ready for violence!!!

+1

[Ttly]

Void Angel, on 18 June 2024 - 12:41 PM, said:

I am constantly amazed at players - not only from this game - who react to minor tuning nerfs as though someone must have been personally insulted in order to have "retaliated" with this terrible, punitive measure...

What a weird excuse for petty unwarranted nerfs.
Who even complains about 2 C-UAC+ECM Shadow Cats which would be most impacted? Everyone always runs theirs with 2 C-ERPPC if anything, no one does a 2 C-UAC+ECM. Not to mention one of the things that got nerfed is an non-ECM LT omnipod of all things, which is where the SHC's ECM would be otherwise.
And again, who even complains about the Viper variants that got nerfed? If anything, non Scaleshot Vipers are surprisingly rare to see if anything, even more so these variants, not to mention the nerfs were on ST omnipods which a Scaleshot couldn't afford to even switch out.

Edited by Ttly, 18 June 2024 - 03:53 PM.

[catgirl]

WTFlo, on 18 June 2024 - 01:26 PM, said:

"A 2-week Patch Science Sale will go live with the patch and include all the usual equipment, weapons, and applicable BattleMechs. So have fun and 'Mech on!"

So this means there's another sale starting today with deployment of the patch? If so, where is it? I don't see anything ingame.
Excuse my impatience, but I heard "sale" and now I'm ready for violence!!!

Firewolfslayer, on 18 June 2024 - 01:34 PM, said:

+1

++1

sale pls and thank you

[Void Angel]

Ttly, on 18 June 2024 - 03:50 PM, said:

What a weird excuse for petty unwarranted nerfs.
Who even complains about 2 C-UAC+ECM Shadow Cats which would be most impacted? Everyone always runs theirs with 2 C-ERPPC if anything, no one does a 2 C-UAC+ECM. Not to mention one of the things that got nerfed is an non-ECM LT omnipod of all things, which is where the SHC's ECM would be otherwise.
And again, who even complains about the Viper variants that got nerfed? If anything, non Scaleshot Vipers are surprisingly rare to see if anything, even more so these variants, not to mention the nerfs were on ST omnipods which a Scaleshot couldn't afford to even switch out.

What a weird excuse to justify irrational complaints about a minor nerf. Complaints by forum posters are not generally a reliable measure of the state of balance - for that, you need game telemetry, which neither of us have. But in no case is it rational to claim that "someone got killed by a Shadow Cat, and now they're retaliating" is the reason for this nerf - nor is it "weird" to object to that.

[The6thMessenger]

Really looking forward to buy another hero. Can we please have another hero sale?

[martian]

WTFlo, on 18 June 2024 - 01:26 PM, said:

"A 2-week Patch Science Sale will go live with the patch and include all the usual equipment, weapons, and applicable BattleMechs. So have fun and 'Mech on!"

So this means there's another sale starting today with deployment of the patch? If so, where is it? I don't see anything ingame.
Excuse my impatience, but I heard "sale" and now I'm ready for violence!!!

Stay calm.

Such sales often come after a few hours or after a few days.

[Heat Skink]

Martaloc, on 18 June 2024 - 07:13 AM, said:

Why the armor quirk nerf on the Shadowcat?
Somebody died from the 2 Beamlaser + 6 machinegun Shadowcat in the Councuil and now they nerf in revenge?
And what the problem with the D omni pod? 2 energy + 2 balistics on one med sized torso, not that epic.
While the IS meds have heavymech armor quirks and much more.
So what happened?
Dont nerf the Shadowcat, nerf the Blackjacks and Bushwackers, the whole game is full with them because they to good!

because CLAN PGI Can't nerf thier baby the IS. too many cauldron members use it and tier 1 players with... questionable tactics...

Edited by Heat Skink, 18 June 2024 - 09:26 PM.

[The Chancelor]

martian, on 18 June 2024 - 11:25 AM, said:

Both 'Mechs are have the following quirks:

First of all, thanks for posting. But, is that really all?

[martian]

The Chancelor, on 18 June 2024 - 09:54 PM, said:

First of all, thanks for posting. But, is that really all?

Yes, that is really all.

[Arkhangel]

Heat Skink, on 18 June 2024 - 09:24 PM, said:

because CLAN PGI Can't nerf thier baby the IS. too many cauldron members use it and tier 1 players with... questionable tactics...

When you start following Zelbrigen, and don't want to be an IS MechWarrior in a Clan Mech, you can have proper clan weapons.

[martian]

Heat Skink, on 18 June 2024 - 09:24 PM, said:

because CLAN PGI Can't nerf thier baby the IS. too many cauldron members use it and tier 1 players with... questionable tactics...

1) What "tier 1 players ... with questionable tactics" are you talking about? Post your verifiable sources.

2) Post your verifiable statistics (or other verifiable sources) detailing the use of IS tech / Clantech by the Cauldron members.

[Void Angel]

martian, on 18 June 2024 - 10:40 PM, said:

1) What "tier 1 players ... with questionable tactics" are you talking about? Post your verifiable sources.

2) Post your verifiable statistics (or other verifiable sources) detailing the use of IS tech / Clantech by the Cauldron members.

Hey, leave Vix alone! It's a perfectly reasonable viewpoint. There are totally no ulterior motives or faction favoritism involved in this deep and nuanced analysis!

[Heat Skink]

Arkhangel, on 18 June 2024 - 10:35 PM, said:

When you start following Zelbrigen, and don't want to be an IS MechWarrior in a Clan Mech, you can have proper clan weapons.

Yeah like you won't break that, you seem to forget if either side doesn't follow zellbrigen nobody has to.

Edited by Heat Skink, 18 June 2024 - 11:21 PM.

[WTFlo]

martian, on 18 June 2024 - 08:47 PM, said:

Stay calm.

Such sales often come after a few hours or after a few days.

Well, it says "go live with the patch" and not "after a few hours" or "few days". So I guess it's fair to wonder at least.

[martian]

WTFlo, on 19 June 2024 - 02:30 AM, said:

Well, it says "go live with the patch" and not "after a few hours" or "few days". So I guess it's fair to wonder at least.

One example:

The game was patched on 19. III. 2024 and the sale started on 22. III. 2024.

Maybe the sale will start tomorrow. Maybe it will start on Friday.

[D V Devnull]

An6ryMan69, on 14 June 2024 - 03:29 PM, said:

Not sure why the Viper needed to get nerfed, I don't see them around that much.

Void Angel, on 14 June 2024 - 03:40 PM, said:

It's an overwhelmingly popular pick in it's weight class for comp play; people just play other 'mechs in quickplay, because a lot of its builds require teamwork that you just can't count on in PuG matches.

Ttly, on 18 June 2024 - 03:50 PM, said:

And again, who even complains about the Viper variants that got nerfed? If anything, non Scaleshot Vipers are surprisingly rare to see if anything, even more so these variants, not to mention the nerfs were on ST omnipods which a Scaleshot couldn't afford to even switch out.

Hi there... Something seriously stood out at me during that last June 2024 set of Viper-related changes. Over on the VPR-B Variant design, there is only 4 Energy HardPoints total when in Set-Of-Eight configuration, one on each properly useful section. Why would it ever be good to hit the VPR-B Variant so harshly when that can near-literally turn such an option into another dust-collecting shelf queen? Why would those in The Cauldron not consider moving those Quirks over to require Set-Of-Eight being maintained before discarding them completely? Prior to changes, we had...

• Acceleration +20% (10% each from LT & RT)
  
• Deceleration +20% (10% each from LT & RT)
  
• Torso Yaw Speed +10% (5% each from LT & RT)
  
• Turn Rate +10% (5% each from LT & RT)

...and I can understand placing a Nerf on anything not Set-Of-Eight to put it back in-line with overall balance. That said, rather than discard them completely, it could have been rolled into Set-Of-Eight by doing...

• Acceleration +15%
  
• Deceleration +15%
  
• Torso Yaw Speed +7.5%
  
• Turn Rate +7.5%

...so that those who stuck with Set-Of-Eight limitations could get something for working within certain extra challenges. With how things have been changed, it feels like someone was trying to punish Set-Of-Eight utilization & designs unnecessarily, thereby forcing people into giving up those bonuses along with everything else. I'll even admit here that due to having a Set-Of-Eight Build (which does cause me to have a vested interest) for use myself, this isn't sitting well with me in any way, particularly as I was willing to accept Set-Of-Eight in order to properly enjoy having anything on the VPR-B Variant at all. With the latest June 2024 changes, it makes me wonder if getting that VPR-B was ever worth doing in the first place, or if I made a stupidly huge mistake in my past choices. Somebody want to get any available member from The Cauldron over here for reading some posts, with the possibility of communicating some information and/or perspective on the matter? I literally am unable to Discord with the computer which I have the use of, and various things I've heard make me extremely reticent about ever touching Discord in the future anyway.


EDIT :: Heck, I'll even admit my build wasn't super-attached to the Torso Yaw Speed bonus anyway, so those whom are in The Cauldron could still get rid of that one entirely if they still desired.


~D. V. "really doesn't get why VPR-B's Quirks weren't changed with June 2024 into a Set-Of-Eight state instead" Devnull

Edited by D V Devnull, 19 June 2024 - 04:29 AM.

[Heat Skink]

D V Devnull, on 19 June 2024 - 04:25 AM, said:

Hi there... Something seriously stood out at me during that last June 2024 set of Viper-related changes. Over on the VPR-B Variant design, there is only 4 Energy HardPoints total when in Set-Of-Eight configuration, one on each properly useful section. Why would it ever be good to hit the VPR-B Variant so harshly when that can near-literally turn such an option into another dust-collecting shelf queen? Why would those in The Cauldron not consider moving those Quirks over to require Set-Of-Eight being maintained before discarding them completely? Prior to changes, we had...

• Acceleration +20% (10% each from LT & RT)
  
• Deceleration +20% (10% each from LT & RT)
  
• Torso Yaw Speed +10% (5% each from LT & RT)
  
• Turn Rate +10% (5% each from LT & RT)

...and I can understand placing a Nerf on anything not Set-Of-Eight to put it back in-line with overall balance. That said, rather than discard them completely, it could have been rolled into Set-Of-Eight by doing...

• Acceleration +15%
  
• Deceleration +15%
  
• Torso Yaw Speed +7.5%
  
• Turn Rate +7.5%

...so that those who stuck with Set-Of-Eight limitations could get something for working within certain extra challenges. With how things have been changed, it feels like someone was trying to punish Set-Of-Eight utilization & designs unnecessarily, thereby forcing people into giving up those bonuses along with everything else. I'll even admit here that due to having a Set-Of-Eight Build (which does cause me to have a vested interest) for use myself, this isn't sitting well with me in any way, particularly as I was willing to accept Set-Of-Eight in order to properly enjoy having anything on the VPR-B Variant at all. With the latest June 2024 changes, it makes me wonder if getting that VPR-B was ever worth doing in the first place, or if I made a stupidly huge mistake in my past choices. Somebody want to get any available member from The Cauldron over here for reading some posts, with the possibility of communicating some information and/or perspective on the matter? I literally am unable to Discord with the computer which I have the use of, and various things I've heard make me extremely reticent about ever touching Discord in the future anyway.



EDIT :: Heck, I'll even admit my build wasn't super-attached to the Torso Yaw Speed bonus anyway, so those whom are in The Cauldron could still get rid of that one entirely if they still desired.


~D. V. "really doesn't get why VPR-B's Quirks weren't changed with June 2024 into a Set-Of-Eight state instead" Devnull

Yeah no idea on that one either i rarely see vipers...

[Void Angel]

Thank heavens there is game telemetry that does not rely on our personal observations!

D V Devnull, on 19 June 2024 - 04:25 AM, said:

Hi there... Something seriously stood out at me during that last June 2024 set of Viper-related changes. Over on the VPR-B Variant design, there is only 4 Energy HardPoints total when in Set-Of-Eight configuration, one on each properly useful section. Why would it ever be good to hit the VPR-B Variant so harshly when that can near-literally turn such an option into

Dunno; but you're looking at it a bit wrongly - it's sort of impossible to nerf an omnimech variant, per se. The only things unique to the variant are its CT and Set of 8. So the only thing we can really tell by the nerfs was that the devs felt something about those ST pods was causing balance issues, and that it's probably not the pods verall variant itself. What that issue is? Heck, I dunno - but there's a public Discord where you can go ask them. If I was a Viper pilot confused about a nerf, that's what I'd do.

But it doesn't matter whether whether we see Vipers with these pods wreaking havok in our personal matches - that's a reason to wonder (and ask questions if we like,) but not to object. I do see Vipers regularly, though they're not ubiquitous - but then, neither are Crusaders, and they're one of the strongest chassis in the game.

Edited by Void Angel, 19 June 2024 - 03:15 PM.

[simon1812]

Void Angel, on 19 June 2024 - 08:37 AM, said:

Thank heavens there is game telemetry that does not rely on our personal observations!


Dunno; but you're looking at it a bit wrongly - it's sort of impossible to nerf an omnimech variant, per se. The only things unique to the variant are its CT and Set of 8. So the only thing we can really tell by the nerfs was that the devs felt something about those ST pods was causing balance issues, and that it's probably not the pods verall variant itself. What that issue is? Heck, I dunno - but there's a public Discord where you can go ask them. If I was a Viper pilot confused about a nerf, that's what I'd do.

But it doesn't matter whether whether we see Vipers with these pods wreaking havok in our personal matches - that's a reason to wonder (and ask questions if we like,) but not to object. I do see Vipers regularly, though they're not ubiquitous - but then, neither are Crusaders, and they're one of the strongest chassis in the game.

Now Im curious so I will check discord, I do hate it when the explanation comes as "balance issues" . such wording is to get folks out of the way and it doesn't explain anything.

[Void Angel]

simon1812, on 19 June 2024 - 03:31 PM, said:

Now Im curious so I will check discord, I do hate it when the explanation comes as "balance issues" . such wording is to get folks out of the way and it doesn't explain anything.

I know. The Viper nerfs seem odd - if you look at it, they're taking the mobility quirks out of all the STs that have weapon hardpoints, so that's probably why they picked those particular pods. Why it seemed necessary when the GrimMechs meta builds don't use those torsos is what I'd ask. I could be just as simple as tuning a strong 'mech, but without knowing their reasoning we can only speculate.