26 replies to this topic

[Drenzul]

Ok, just come back after a long absence (aka pre-clans )
Been building up some clan mechs and generally having a good time, hit over 1.5k damage in a few fights, some things that I've noticed I'm not sure of and not sure how this is possible.

First off is getting spotted at range really really easily but only by certain players.
Great example of this is a QP I just had.

I'm in a ECM boat, ECM was 100% active so shouldn't of been targetable, instant I popped up, after changing position (so I wasn't like popping up in the same place twice) instantly hit before my weapons even crest from over 1200m away.

Looking at the guy who is shooting me, even with 4x zoom, hes basically invisible in all view modes .(slightly glowing in heat after shooting, but I was at 0 heat so he couldn't of been doing that to me) This wasn't just once either and didn't matter if went round the side instead, each time was basically instant soon as I went round the enemy was instantly hitting me and back behind cover. (Note I wasn't just coming up over a bare hill either as that would be somewhat obvious)

It was on the scrapyard map, so I wonder if people are hacking their client to remove the fog or something like that to make people easier to see at range? If so is this legal? Or is there just a setting to do this in the config file? I have recently played with the config file to max out the settings as much as possible (4080 is a bit overkill for this game ) so is there anything I might have messed up in there? I did set the LOD to max, but that should in theory help not hinder?

Had a few other similar instances of people seemingly lying in wait for me despite the fact I was fairly sure they had no way of knowing I was coming and it wasn't like centre of the map ambush positions, I put it down to bad luck but not so sure anymore, kind of feels like some sort of wallhack. Happy to admit I'm wrong but its feeling very dodgy!

[epikt]

Drenzul, on 22 July 2024 - 03:40 PM, said:

I wonder if people are hacking their client to remove the fog or something like that to make people easier to see at range? If so is this legal? Or is there just a setting to do this in the config file? I have recently played with the config file to max out the settings as much as possible (4080 is a bit overkill for this game ) so is there anything I might have messed up in there? I did set the LOD to max, but that should in theory help not hinder?

It's not legal to "hack" the client, but modifying the config file is perfectly OK. It's one of the many explanations I see to your story.
They might not even had tweek their cfg, maybe just changed the gamma in the options, so they see better on dark maps.

If I understood correctly, you modified your cfg in order to make the game look "better" ; most people modifying this file do the opposite: they make the game look "worst" but cleaner, so it's easier to see.

Also, I know it sometimes feels "dodgy" to be spotted at weird angles, but remember there are 12 players in the opposite team and the one that hit you might not be the one you evaded. Map knowledge must be taken into account too, there are locations were it feels "natural" to go when moving, peaking, etc, thus location where you can wait for an opponent to appear.

PS: don't over-estimate ECM, it has been nerfed since you last played. Especially if you haven't unlocked the nodes in the skill tree, your ECM is almost useless.

[1453 R]

If the last time you played was pre-Clans, you might also not be aware of the fact that UAVs exist now. if an enterprising enemy light dropped a UAV on your position and nobody on your team saw it, then the enemy can see not only your icon, but also your facing and positioning in real time. This may also explain it if you're getting pelted by missiles despite being absolutely certain you're not in LOS of any enemies.

Whenever you're seeing weirdly psychic enemy fire, check the skies. If you see the telltale flare of a hovering rocket motor (because apparently that's how UAVs work in 306X) and it's not a blue-marked friendly? Shoot it da hecc down. letting the enemy keep constant UAV coverage is a great way to lose a match of MWO quick, fast, and in a hurry.

Edited by 1453 R, 22 July 2024 - 04:49 PM.

[epikt]

UAVs exist since forever, don't they?

Anyway, I thought about another think you might not be familiar with: the command wheel. It gives you (among other commands) the possibility to ping a target that will appear on the minimap for a loooong time (several seconds), even if it's not locked or even in visual of any enemy.

[1453 R]

epikt, on 22 July 2024 - 04:52 PM, said:

UAVs exist since forever, don't they?

No, they very much did not. They were introduced well into the post-Clans drop cycle. I distinctly remember the great nasty hooplah around them, especially when Piranha introduced MC-only better-than variants designed to force us to spend fifteen to fifty real-world cents on every single match of MWO we played. Nowadays people have normalized them, but I still hate the system with a passion and would have done it very differently if I'd been the one designing it.

Edited by 1453 R, 22 July 2024 - 04:55 PM.

[LordNothing]

you can improve visibility significantly just by turning down environment and particles. more gains can be had with config file tweaks.

remaining players have considerable skill too, so there are those that can and will headshot you from across the map. even though such instances are rare enough to write off as luckey shots most of the time. there would be more if cheats were a significant factor.

there are probably those who are in fact cheating, given the present state of gamehack culture and almost total lack of active policing. but i suspect many of these players are in lower tiers. suddenly having automatic aiming and the ability to see through walls does not make up with other deficiencies in their play style, such as positioning, coordination and heat management and will often lose in the mechlab.

ive even heard some comms chatter of people bragging about or calling out targets indicated by their cheat software. "there is a lance moving up such and such on my wallhack", so they are getting brazen about it. seen a lot of lagswitching too lately. people with 2 digit ping suddenly start bouncing between that and ping north of a second at regular intervals. if you suspect something report and move on.

Edited by LordNothing, 22 July 2024 - 05:06 PM.

[Drenzul]

epikt, on 22 July 2024 - 04:32 PM, said:

It's not legal to "hack" the client, but modifying the config file is perfectly OK. It's one of the many explanations I see to your story.
They might not even had tweek their cfg, maybe just changed the gamma in the options, so they see better on dark maps.

If I understood correctly, you modified your cfg in order to make the game look "better" ; most people modifying this file do the opposite: they make the game look "worst" but cleaner, so it's easier to see.

Also, I know it sometimes feels "dodgy" to be spotted at weird angles, but remember there are 12 players in the opposite team and the one that hit you might not be the one you evaded. Map knowledge must be taken into account too, there are locations were it feels "natural" to go when moving, peaking, etc, thus location where you can wait for an opponent to appear.

PS: don't over-estimate ECM, it has been nerfed since you last played. Especially if you haven't unlocked the nodes in the skill tree, your ECM is almost useless.

Nope, was same 1-2 people in specific doing it repeatedly. Rest of the team was acting far more normally. ECM skills were enabled and there wasn't anyone with ECM range to counter it. There were plenty of missiles flying but none coming at me so I assume I wasn't actually targeted.

From what I understood the 'cleaner' approach just removed stuff like particle effects that could get in the way but shouldn't affect long range vision in the clear?

1453 R, on 22 July 2024 - 04:48 PM, said:

If the last time you played was pre-Clans, you might also not be aware of the fact that UAVs exist now. if an enterprising enemy light dropped a UAV on your position and nobody on your team saw it, then the enemy can see not only your icon, but also your facing and positioning in real time. This may also explain it if you're getting pelted by missiles despite being absolutely certain you're not in LOS of any enemies.

Whenever you're seeing weirdly psychic enemy fire, check the skies. If you see the telltale flare of a hovering rocket motor (because apparently that's how UAVs work in 306X) and it's not a blue-marked friendly? Shoot it da hecc down. letting the enemy keep constant UAV coverage is a great way to lose a match of MWO quick, fast, and in a hurry.

UAVs were just a thing when I left, but been playing for long enough to realise what they and arty strikes are
Always keeping my eye out for them!

epikt, on 22 July 2024 - 04:52 PM, said:

UAVs exist since forever, don't they?

Anyway, I thought about another think you might not be familiar with: the command wheel. It gives you (among other commands) the possibility to ping a target that will appear on the minimap for a loooong time (several seconds), even if it's not locked or even in visual of any enemy.

Good idea, I was aware of this and deliberately waited 20 seconds before popping up a few times or did bigger relocations but same thing happened. Didn't know how to trigger it through

LordNothing, on 22 July 2024 - 04:57 PM, said:

you can improve visibility significantly just by turning down environment and particles. more gains can be had with config file tweaks.

remaining players have considerable skill too, so there are those that can and will headshot you from across the map. even though such instances are rare enough to write off as luckey shots most of the time. there would be more if cheats were a significant factor.

there are probably those who are in fact cheating, given the present state of gamehack culture and almost total lack of active policing. but i suspect many of these players are in lower tiers. suddenly having automatic aiming and the ability to see through walls does not make up with other deficiencies in their play style, such as positioning, coordination and heat management and will often lose in the mechlab.

ive even heard some comms chatter of people bragging about or calling out targets indicated by their cheat software. "there is a lance moving up such and such on my wallhack", so they are getting brazen about it. seen a lot of lagswitching too lately. people with 2 digit ping suddenly start bouncing between that and ping north of a second at regular intervals. if you suspect something report and move on.

Wasn't a case of amazing accuracy or anything, well aware some players have very good aim without cheating.
The bouncing/teleporting lights I've encountered but to be honest didn't seem to have too many problems hitting them anyway.

[epikt]

Drenzul, on 23 July 2024 - 12:19 AM, said:

From what I understood the 'cleaner' approach just removed stuff like particle effects that could get in the way but shouldn't affect long range vision in the clear?

I don't exactly know were it comes from, but with my config mechs are visible no matter the distance (I think). There's a little "fog" on maps like Junkyard but nothing strong enough to mask a mech at usual engagement distances. Actually, the fog somehow make mechs more visible.
Example with this Cicada:

[Drenzul]

epikt, on 23 July 2024 - 02:39 AM, said:

I don't exactly know were it comes from, but with my config mechs are visible no matter the distance (I think). There's a little "fog" on maps like Junkyard but nothing strong enough to mask a mech at usual engagement distances. Actually, the fog somehow make mechs more visible.
Example with this Cicada:

Yep, I could see someone standing on top of the hill like that, but
if they are in front of something at that range they become basically invisible.

On the flip side, maps like emerald vale, can see clean across the map no issues.

[Tarl Cabot]

• What mech was the Red using?
  
• What mech were you in?
  
• If red is primarily a IS mech, it will have an empty slot in the cockpit, then it can be equipped with Command Module, rebranded as Advanced Sensor Package.
  
• Command Module/ Advanced Sensor Package is 1.5t for advanced zoom x7 instead of x4.
  
• https://mwomercs.com...-21november2023
  
• Additional post showing all updates to the Command Module/ Advanced Sensor Package - https://mwomercs.com...ge-and-warhawk/
  
• Targeting computer can also slightly increase Zoom abilities.
  
• Unsure which Clan mechs have that free slot in the cockpit.
  
• Map knowledge and Human predictability
  
• Another red ECM mech stationed to the rear providing spotting opportunities.

https://mwomercs.com...ost__p__5016827

Clan Targeting Computer

All Clan Targeting Computers are receiving adjustments to the majority of their values, listed below.
The Advanced Zoom, Sensor Range, and Targeting Time Boosts received from TC's are all unchanged from their previous values, and are not listed below.

• Targeting Computer MK I

• Zoom Level 1 Boost increased to 10% (from 6.75)
• Zoom Level 2 Boost increased to 14% (from 9)
• Beam Range Boost increased to 4% (from 2.25)
• Projectile Speed Boost increased to 5% (from 4.5)
• Critical Chance 1 Boost increased to 5% (from 4.32)
• Critical Chance 2 Boost increased to 2.75% (from 2.42)
• Critical Chance 3 Boost increased to 0.55% (from 0.52)


• Targeting Computer MK II

• Zoom Level 1 Boost increased to 15% (from 9.75)
• Zoom Level 2 Boost increased to 20% (from 13)
• Beam Range Boost increased to 5% (from 3.25)
• Projectile Speed Boost increased to 10% (from 6.5)
• Critical Chance 1 Boost increased to 5.5% (from 4.91)
• Critical Chance 2 Boost increased to 3% (from 2.75)
• Critical Chance 3 Boost increased to 0.625% (from 0.59)


• Targeting Computer MK III

• Zoom Level 1 Boost increased to 20% (from 12.75)
• Zoom Level 2 Boost increased to 27% (from 17)
• Beam Range Boost increased to 6% (from 4.25)
• Projectile Speed Boost increased to 15% (from 8.5)
• Critical Chance 1 Boost increased to 6% (from 5.51)
• Critical Chance 2 Boost increased to 3.25% (from 3.08)
• Critical Chance 3 Boost increased to 0.7% (from 0.6)


• Targeting Computer MK IV

• Zoom Level 1 Boost increased to 25% (from 15.75)
• Zoom Level 2 Boost increased to 33% (from 21)
• Beam Range Boost increased to 7% (from 5.25)
• Projectile Speed Boost increased to 20% (from 10.5)
• Critical Chance 1 Boost increased to 6.5% (from 6.10)
• Critical Chance 2 Boost increased to 3.5% (from 3.42)
• Critical Chance 3 Boost increased to 0.775% (from 0.73)


• Targeting Computer MK V

• Zoom Level 1 Boost increased to 30% (from 18)
• Zoom Level 2 Boost increased to 37.5% (from 24)
• Beam Range Boost increased to 8% (from 6)
• Projectile Speed Boost increased to 25% (from 12)
• Critical Chance 1 Boost increased to 7% (from 6.5)
• Critical Chance 2 Boost increased to 4% (from 3.37)
• Critical Chance 3 Boost increased to 0.85% (from 0.79)


• Targeting Computer MK VI

• Zoom Level 1 Boost increased to 35% (from 20.25)
• Zoom Level 2 Boost increased to 42% (from 27)
• Beam Range Boost increased to 9% (from 6.75)
• Projectile Speed Boost increased to 30% (from 13.5)
• Critical Chance 1 Boost increased to 7.5% (from 6.99)
• Critical Chance 2 Boost increased to 4.25% (from 3.92)
• Critical Chance 3 Boost increased to 0.925% (from 0.84)


• Targeting Computer MK VII

• Zoom Level 1 Boost increased to 40% (from 22.5)
• Zoom Level 2 Boost increased to 47% (from 30)
• Beam Range Boost increased to 10% (from 7.5)
• Projectile Speed Boost increased to 35% (from 15)
• Critical Chance 1 Boost increased to 8% (from 7.44)
• Critical Chance 2 Boost increased to 4.5% (from 4.17)
• Critical Chance 3 Boost increased to 1% (from 0.89)

Edited by Tarl Cabot, 23 July 2024 - 04:52 AM.

[LordNothing]

targeting computers dont even affect visibility other than enhancing zoom modes. and some of these 'dot on the horizon' mechs are beyond sensor range no matter how much ew kit you have.

epikt, on 23 July 2024 - 02:39 AM, said:

I don't exactly know were it comes from, but with my config mechs are visible no matter the distance (I think). There's a little "fog" on maps like Junkyard but nothing strong enough to mask a mech at usual engagement distances. Actually, the fog somehow make mechs more visible.
Example with this Cicada:

this depends a lot on display technology. i think ips has a visibility disadvantage to crappier tn displayes, not sure about oleds. only oled display i have is on my steam deck and my close in vision isnt too good so its bad visibility anyway. dont know how phone people live.

Edited by LordNothing, 23 July 2024 - 12:58 PM.

[Drenzul]

I had ASP hence 4x zoon so don't think it was that. Mech was of a visible size.

4k high res monitors at well (game is running at 4k). Not had any trouble picking out mechs on other maps at that range.

Its more that, if you look at epikt's screenshot above, notice the mech is basically exactly the same colour as the hill below him?
Imagine if that mech was standing in front of that hill. They basically merge into one on that map. Doesn't seem to matter what colour the mech actually is.

I assume if the ECM icon is still displaying you haven't been spotted/targetable (since it turns red if tagged/ppc'ed/someone in los inside range), so equally assumed I would be just as hard to spot for the enemy. (Actually have smoke jag camo on this mech so should be really close in colour anyway)

[Moadebe]

Drenzul, on 22 July 2024 - 03:40 PM, said:

Ok, just come back after a long absence (aka pre-clans )
Been building up some clan mechs and generally having a good time, hit over 1.5k damage in a few fights, some things that I've noticed I'm not sure of and not sure how this is possible.

First off is getting spotted at range really really easily but only by certain players.
Great example of this is a QP I just had.

I'm in a ECM boat, ECM was 100% active so shouldn't of been targetable, instant I popped up, after changing position (so I wasn't like popping up in the same place twice) instantly hit before my weapons even crest from over 1200m away.

Looking at the guy who is shooting me, even with 4x zoom, hes basically invisible in all view modes .(slightly glowing in heat after shooting, but I was at 0 heat so he couldn't of been doing that to me) This wasn't just once either and didn't matter if went round the side instead, each time was basically instant soon as I went round the enemy was instantly hitting me and back behind cover. (Note I wasn't just coming up over a bare hill either as that would be somewhat obvious)

It was on the scrapyard map, so I wonder if people are hacking their client to remove the fog or something like that to make people easier to see at range? If so is this legal? Or is there just a setting to do this in the config file? I have recently played with the config file to max out the settings as much as possible (4080 is a bit overkill for this game ) so is there anything I might have messed up in there? I did set the LOD to max, but that should in theory help not hinder?

Had a few other similar instances of people seemingly lying in wait for me despite the fact I was fairly sure they had no way of knowing I was coming and it wasn't like centre of the map ambush positions, I put it down to bad luck but not so sure anymore, kind of feels like some sort of wallhack. Happy to admit I'm wrong but its feeling very dodgy!

Config files is your answer.

Everyone here will defend it because PGI said it was ok to do. So take knowing that there are people who run around in a purely pvp game removing things like water from River City, and putting it to where a mech sticks out like a sore thumb in all environments however you want to.

[PocketYoda]

I thought they removed that CFG file cheating?

[Bud Crue]

PocketYoda, on 23 July 2024 - 05:26 PM, said:

I thought they removed that CFG file cheating?

No. They removed the maps where the .config changes provided an appreciable advantage, and modified the other maps (just Emerald, if I recall correctly) to remove the advantage modifying the .config files provided. One can still modify the .config files to his/her hearts content.

[Moadebe]

PocketYoda, on 23 July 2024 - 05:26 PM, said:

I thought they removed that CFG file cheating?

There are still instances where you can remove the water in river city. So if you are a light trying to flank thinking you are hidden....you are not.

Even if the water wasnt removed it still makes mechs stick out like a sore thumb against a black background with how some settings are (n64 mode comes to mind.)

In a purely pvp game it should have NEVER been allowed. I understand future proofing on an old game, but in a highly competitive environment in a pvp game. People will find any which way to gain an edge over the other person.

If it was in the UI itself it wouldnt be a problem.

But....cats outta the bag and isnt going back in. So .... take with that what you will

[VeeOt Dragon]

meh, i will always consider altering the config files (or any other alteration to the game that isn't directly in a menu IN GAME) to be cheating in any pvp. i don't care what PGI says about it. same goes for macroes and any other such tools. if it isn't directly in the game or part of something the developers intended then its cheating. (mind you just having better equipment than other people is fine, like if you have an HD monitor or a more precise mouse thats fine)

hell i run the game on a 780p flat screen TV (my monitor might be a better choice but its smaller and my eyes are not what they used to be) so there is no way i am gonna be able to target a couple pixels at the other side of the map.

(side note, ok i can give sound packs an ok but they don't effect anything gameplay wise as long as they don't give any audio cues that are not already in game)

[Ignatius Audene]

But running 4k high details puts u in a hard disadvantage already even with stock cfg. And snipping in 1.2+ is nothing new. It's called brawling in FP. U will get very good in reading intentions and the flow of the match. Once u have seen a mech ever so slightly (and remember all the invisible walls in this garbage engine) it's quite easy to guess, where someone might pop up next and act accordingly.

Edited by Ignatius Audene, 25 July 2024 - 01:11 AM.

[Drenzul]

Why on earth would running at 4k high details give me a disadvantage?

There were multiple locations to emerge from, it was instant every time. You can't guess that.

[Besh]

Drenzul, on 25 July 2024 - 01:39 AM, said:

Why on earth would running at 4k high details give me a disadvantage?

There were multiple locations to emerge from, it was instant every time. You can't guess that.

There always are a few easy, logical explanations for various oddities players routinely experience, and mention here on the Forums . Like the "how the HELL did he/they even know I was there/coming, let alone had all their guns trained on that spot where I emerged ?"

For instance, years ago when people were curious about other players being able to monitor movement perfectly on Viridian Bog. "You have been spotted/experience/etc..." explanations galore .

Then...it became public knowledge that config edits reduce a vast amount of the foliage on Bog, and those in the know did it for years reaping the benefits, while others were just stumped by "how th?".

I guess what I am saying is, conversations on these Forums not rarely have disingenuous elements .

Edited by Besh, 26 July 2024 - 11:54 PM.