57 replies to this topic

[rascje]

Hawk819, on 12 August 2024 - 03:11 PM, said:

Please tell me that Apache has more than two ballistic hard points. Love the Arms, but seriously, there needs to more than that. Just saying.

From video u can see 1 missile hp for each side torso.

[The Chancelor]

Time to dust off my shotgun. I'm going clay pigeon shooting now!

Something new. Thanks for the work on MWO!

[The Chancelor]

Nimnul, on 12 August 2024 - 07:59 PM, said:

I don't think it's a good idea. Because you become visible to the entire enemy team. Everyone shoots once and you're sent to the hangar. The problem could be solved with greater maneuverability left/right(200% lateral acceleration\deceleration).

It is all about your skills as a pilot. If you play it like a light mech (wait half of the match and make 1000+ damage in the last four minutes) you will be fine. Fly across the map without any distraction (aka mainbattle) and you will ragequit the game.

[JOATMON Incorporated]

I thought about this some more.

I still think light mechs would be the most fun with this partial wing. The spider seems like an ideal candidate.

Also if it would be paired with stealth armor and a NARC launcher with a decent velocity/range bonus... ok that combined would probably be a bit much. lol

[Magic Pain Glove]

Beam lasers + Partial Wing light clan mech would probably be something that I would like to see next but I guess it somewhat depends on how much folks enjoy these two. And how well tuned they are post launch .

Luckily with partial wings being locked equipment each individual thing like the amount of thrust , total duration , and jump jet heat generation can be tweaked individually without affecting anything else in game. It already generates much less JJ heat than regular jump jets do ( for obvious reasons ) and will benefit a lot from JJ heat nodes (further reducing heat) , and JJ burn duration nodes (further increasing flight time ) in the skill tree .

[Av4tar]

Make them retract the legs when flying longer than 5 seconds?

[MechWarrior2150582]

We need that these features (not wings), click on LINK to expand:
https://mwomercs.com...ersionend-game/

FIX Basic Bugs 1st:
I have tested HSL across many mechs. MWO is totally bugged:
- It is not included in the mechstats (Under Firepower) even if HSL occurs in the omnipod.
- Even if HSL is included, it does not affect Heat Penalty.
- Some mechs have HSL + 1, but they function as if they had HSL + 4.

Targeting Computer may work (how can we know?), but its stat boosts are not shown in MechLab:
- Projectile speed remains the same in the MechLab UI.
- Laser ranges remain the same in the MechLab UI.
- Stats for projectile speed and laser range are unchanged in MechStats (Under Firepower).

Why do developers add "crazy wings" when there are basic unfixed bugs in the game, or I am missing something?

[torsie]

It does not make your crosshair shake like normal jump jets ? Is it only for these mechs or will it be normal for these wings?

Edited by torsie, 13 August 2024 - 02:59 AM.

[Amsro]

I dig the Spectre, but I'm going to make it fast. Need a large XL engine to give you the speed need to be in the air. Slow is going to be death. The xl255 is comically slow, the 14 tons of LXPL need to become a larger engine and medium lasers. Looks like 2 laser hard points per arm. So;

- 4 ER Medium Lasers

- 4 Light Machine Guns

- ECM

- BAP (maybe)

- XL350 (126kph vs 91 with the XL255)

Edited by Amsro, 13 August 2024 - 05:41 AM.

[Tarogato]

MechWarrior2150582, on 13 August 2024 - 02:19 AM, said:

FIX Basic Bugs 1st:
I have tested HSL across many mechs. MWO is totally bugged:
- It is not included in the mechstats (Under Firepower) even if HSL occurs in the omnipod.

HSL does not increase firepower. This is correct. If you have 7 Medium Lasers (35 alpha damage, or "firepower"), and you add HSL +1, you can now fire all 7 Medium Lasers (35 alpha damage) without penalty. Firepower does not increase. This is not a bug.

Quote

- Even if HSL is included, it does not affect Heat Penalty.

Heat Penalty is not a stat in the mechlab. It is not visible to the player. This is not a bug.

Quote

- Some mechs have HSL + 1, but they function as if they had HSL + 4.

Please cite examples. I know of no such errors in the game.

Quote

Targeting Computer may work (how can we know?), but its stat boosts are not shown in MechLab:
- Projectile speed remains the same in the MechLab UI.
- Laser ranges remain the same in the MechLab UI.

Congratulations, you identified real bugs.

Quote

- Stats for projectile speed and laser range are unchanged in MechStats (Under Firepower).

You listed the previous items again, reworded, to make it seem like there's more items on the list?

Quote

Why do developers add "crazy wings" when there are basic unfixed bugs in the game, or I am missing something?

Of all the grievances you listed, only two were actual bugs. They have been this way for ~8 years. The reason they are adding Partial Wings to the game right now is because they can, and the reason they aren't fixing your bugs is because they probably can't.

Think of it like manufacturing. Partial Wings is like pooping out another identical item on the assembly line and giving it a different coat of paint from everything that came before it. It looks like something new, but really it's the same item with a different coat of paint. Fixing bugs on the other hand requires somebody who knows how to reconfigure the assembly line itself. This is the difference between an engineer modifying game code, and an artist creating new items from a pre-existing framework. PGI does not allocate engineers to MWO anymore, so game code modifications these days are very rare to see. The game is too old and PGI doesn't see profit from ducking one of their valuable employees off of new projects to go work on this old dying game instead.

Edited by Tarogato, 13 August 2024 - 08:04 AM.

[FRAGTAST1C]

Nice ideas. Now, I get that the JJ mechanic is being retro-fitted in the .txt file (for a lack of a better word) specifically for these mechs but I have a few suggestions for your consideration...

1. Increase the height of the mechs' flight as well as their general air speed. They don't seem to be flying. Rather, they feel like they are hover-boats with extremely limited maneuverability.

2. The recharge speed of the jump jet (flight time) fuel is extremely slow, I feel. If the point of these mechs is limited flight, then they should exhaust the fuel gauge fast and recharge faster.

3. I've played a few of those "Unlimited JJ" Event Queue matches. Now, I'm not saying that these should be like that but there's a bit of nuance there for balance. Phoenix Hawk should be way more agile and speedy through the air as well as being able to "take-off" faster from the ground compared to the Champion. Perhaps make the Phoenix Hawk "springy" while the Champion can be "floaty".

4. Maybe give both the mechs a big boost to fall-damage negation. After all, we don't want the lasers to be able to target these mechs' legs in mid-air only for them to fall to the ground and break their knees.

5. Please no universal Range quirks for these mechs, especially the Champion. We seriously don't want the LRM version to be able to shoot at targets while negating cover.

6. If possible, add the JJ screen-shake to these mechs after a certain amount of JJ fuel has been used. This might feel like design ouroboros given that I suggested making the mechs to be able to lift-off and fly around faster but it's not exactly the case. The way the mechs move in the air right now feels like a balance check to make sure that they can't fly in the air, shoot at targets negating their cover. But if we allow them to do that at quick bursts and sustained flight causing the crosshair to wobble all over the place, they could be fun to pilot instead of having to press and hold the spacebar and watch a hover-boat float around.

[Tiy0s]

torsie, on 13 August 2024 - 02:55 AM, said:

It does not make your crosshair shake like normal jump jets ? Is it only for these mechs or will it be normal for these wings?

All partial wing mechs(hoping these go well enough that we get to make more! I'm hoping for one in each weight class) will have no JJ shake. Scattershot and Heavy Metal have those as unique mech quirks, but no shake will be a benefit of the partial wing itself.

[Abaddun]

Do the wing struts affect the hitbox geometry of the mechs?

[BlueDevilspawn]

Increased horizontal speed gives us the risk of re-introducing the thrust vectoring skill node, which created a lot of hitbox jank and we were specific about NOT introducing it again.

The mechs will get pretty good height... you're watching it from the lower level of Canyon mainly in the videos. That said, I was very specific during creation that I did not want these mechs to get into "cheese" spots on the maps and will monitor this when they launch.

The JJ recharge time has already been stated to be increased to more closely fill the bar akin to normal JJs.

Don't think #6 is possible.

FRAGTAST1C, on 13 August 2024 - 08:51 AM, said:

Nice ideas. Now, I get that the JJ mechanic is being retro-fitted in the .txt file (for a lack of a better word) specifically for these mechs but I have a few suggestions for your consideration...

1. Increase the height of the mechs' flight as well as their general air speed. They don't seem to be flying. Rather, they feel like they are hover-boats with extremely limited maneuverability.

2. The recharge speed of the jump jet (flight time) fuel is extremely slow, I feel. If the point of these mechs is limited flight, then they should exhaust the fuel gauge fast and recharge faster.

3. I've played a few of those "Unlimited JJ" Event Queue matches. Now, I'm not saying that these should be like that but there's a bit of nuance there for balance. Phoenix Hawk should be way more agile and speedy through the air as well as being able to "take-off" faster from the ground compared to the Champion. Perhaps make the Phoenix Hawk "springy" while the Champion can be "floaty".

4. Maybe give both the mechs a big boost to fall-damage negation. After all, we don't want the lasers to be able to target these mechs' legs in mid-air only for them to fall to the ground and break their knees.

5. Please no universal Range quirks for these mechs, especially the Champion. We seriously don't want the LRM version to be able to shoot at targets while negating cover.

6. If possible, add the JJ screen-shake to these mechs after a certain amount of JJ fuel has been used. This might feel like design ouroboros given that I suggested making the mechs to be able to lift-off and fly around faster but it's not exactly the case. The way the mechs move in the air right now feels like a balance check to make sure that they can't fly in the air, shoot at targets negating their cover. But if we allow them to do that at quick bursts and sustained flight causing the crosshair to wobble all over the place, they could be fun to pilot instead of having to press and hold the spacebar and watch a hover-boat float around.

[AmbidXtrousGNOME]

BlueDevilspawn, on 13 August 2024 - 11:59 AM, said:

Increased horizontal speed gives us the risk of re-introducing the thrust vectoring skill node, which created a lot of hitbox jank and we were specific about NOT introducing it again.

The mechs will get pretty good height... you're watching it from the lower level of Canyon mainly in the videos. That said, I was very specific during creation that I did not want these mechs to get into "cheese" spots on the maps and will monitor this when they launch.

The JJ recharge time has already been stated to be increased to more closely fill the bar akin to normal JJs.

Don't think #6 is possible.

Sorry ahead of time, I'll try to ask the question in a way that it makes sense.

So right now JJ have a hardcoded forward and upward thrust and these PWKs are going to tweak those settings (more forward, less up), Am I understanding that correctly?

Would it be possible to have the PWKs function like a true hover craft in the sense that if you just hold space, you'll go straight up (Z Plane). However, could a omni-direction functionality be created that you could use WASD to move with relative responsiveness in the appropriate direction (X & Y Planes). If a player presses the WASD keys, the Upward momentum reduces and then the corresponding direction's momentum increases.

In essence, you could "hover" and move right and left ducking in and out of cover.

I hope this makes sense.

[Big-G]

Oh, can't wait to see this on the Spider SDR-8X or -8Xr

[Magic Pain Glove]

AmbidXtrousGNOME, on 13 August 2024 - 02:00 PM, said:

Sorry ahead of time, I'll try to ask the question in a way that it makes sense.

So right now JJ have a hardcoded forward and upward thrust and these PWKs are going to tweak those settings (more forward, less up), Am I understanding that correctly?

Would it be possible to have the PWKs function like a true hover craft in the sense that if you just hold space, you'll go straight up (Z Plane). However, could a omni-direction functionality be created that you could use WASD to move with relative responsiveness in the appropriate direction (X & Y Planes). If a player presses the WASD keys, the Upward momentum reduces and then the corresponding direction's momentum increases.

In essence, you could "hover" and move right and left ducking in and out of cover.

I hope this makes sense.

No, it would require major cording changes that are currently outside of PGI's reach. Everything regarding current JJ behavior is using existing / available tech . People probably would consider it OP if two of of 1000s of mechs suddenly got the ability to maneuver their thrusters mid air .

Currently they behave like normal jump jets with a much longer duration ( we'r talking more than 20 seconds of flight time , even more so if one takes JJ burn time nodes ) . People just need to have in mind that speedometer lies while you are in air and once you start jumping you inherit your ground speed. So for quite a bit of time ( even tho it may not seem like it ) you are moving at full speed and much like a single JJ this can also make it super useful for scaling a lot of smaller obstacles fast.Or infinite JJ feathering.


I know its not immediately obvious but you can make use of these jump jets to jump across one platform to another that's 500m+ away ( like cross middle highway jumping on solaris ) . Or you can start hovering over a very unusual spot , a spot which regular poptarts or other mechs cant take , use the no jump jet shake mechanic that they provide and shoot until you are spotted. ECM provides you with additional protection / invisibility.

It makes certain things that were previously not possible , possible now .

Big-G, on 13 August 2024 - 02:43 PM, said:

Oh, can't wait to see this on the Spider SDR-8X or -8Xr

I would also like to see a clan light mech legend with partial wings mostly because I want to use beams on them haha . But I guess it depends on how much people enjoy these I guess and how well tuned they are in the end .

[Steel Raven]

Someone needs to make the joke:

Partial Wing Urbie When?

[Nimnul]

Quote

No, it would require major cording changes that are currently outside of PGI's reach. Everything regarding current JJ behavior is using existing / available tech . People probably would consider it OP if two of of 1000s of mechs suddenly got the ability to maneuver their thrusters mid air .

Without maneuverability in the air, these mechs will be easy targets for enemies. Overall, this mechanic already looks like it's just for fun. Buy a mech for 15 bucks, have fun for a week and throw it in the hangar.

[The Chancelor]

Nimnul, on 13 August 2024 - 08:53 PM, said:

Without maneuverability in the air, these mechs will be easy targets for enemies. Overall, this mechanic already looks like it's just for fun. Buy a mech for 15 bucks, have fun for a week and throw it in the hangar.




That's ... why I am here?