14 replies to this topic

[Angel of Annihilation]

So I have been away from the game for a while and coming back, it just seems to me that Clan weapons are likely ungodly bad with heat generation. I am trying to figure out if it is just me or if something was changed because I am like mounting 26 DHS on my clan mechs and it seems my IS build with like 16 are cooler.

I mean I am literally not enjoying any of my clan mechs because they just seem to melt.

[Nine-Ball]

They nerfed clan DHS ever so slightly.

Clan mechs are still stronk though.

[RockmachinE]

Quite hotter yea. Makes a few borderline builds not playable anymore, at least for me, I like sustain.

[w0qj]

Welcome back!

I did not notice any major Clan heat nerf... and I play both IS + Clan Assault mechs a lot...

Both IS+Clan MPL generated less heat since Jan 2024 patch:
https://mwomercs.com...0-23january2024

You can inspect the patch history for all weapon/equipment/mech heat related changes since April 2021 here:
(aka MWO/Cauldron patches):
https://mwomercs.com...auldron-changes

===============================
Also - MWO made the same coolshot effect spread over a longer period for both IS+Clan.
Less efficient, to help discourage huge alpha's hopefully.
https://mwomercs.com...-21november2023

Quote

EQUIPMENT ADJUSTMENTS

COOLSHOT CONSUMABLE:

• Extra cooling duration Increased to 7.0 seconds (from 3.0)
  
• Extra cooling strength decreased to 2.0 heat/second (from 4.667)

* Note: This change keeps the amount of extra dissipated heat the same at 14, but spreads it over a longer 7 second window compared to the current 3 seconds.

Edited by w0qj, 20 September 2024 - 07:55 PM.

[kalashnikity]

There was a small clan DHS nerf a few months back. I was not happy about it, it was to compensate for blue laser spam, but they should have just added a bit of heat to blue lasers, if it was a problem.

Oh well. Cauldron gonna Cauldron.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

kalashnikity, on 21 September 2024 - 09:58 AM, said:

There was a small clan DHS nerf a few months back. I was not happy about it, it was to compensate for blue laser spam, but they should have just added a bit of heat to blue lasers, if it was a problem.

It wasn't because of blue laser spam........it was because of how strong mid range laser vomit was for Clans. Even before DHS were upgraded to all true dubs in 2018, Clan laser vomit had a huge advantage in alpha, range, and sustained damage.

Edited by Quicksilver Aberration, 21 September 2024 - 01:22 PM.

[Remover of Obstacles]

Remember that the IS skill tree is better, not just the heat sinks and weapons.

IS skill tree nodes are 25% better at 0.75 per node instead of 0.6 for heat gen. You don't have to cool heat you never get.

All of that on top of quirks that are typically much better for IS mechs and IS weapons that are naturally cooler.

• 
  
  IS Double Heat Sink: 0.22 h/s dissipation, 0.50 heat capacity
  
• 
  
  Clan Double Heat Sink: 0.20 h/s dissipation, 0.50 heat capacity
  
• 
  
  Single Heat Sink: 0.15 h/s dissipation, 0.85 heat capacity

Edited by Remover of Obstacles, 22 September 2024 - 04:09 PM.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Remover of Obstacles, on 22 September 2024 - 03:51 PM, said:

Remember that the IS skill tree is better, not just the heat sinks and weapons.

IS skill tree nodes are 25% better at 0.75 per node instead of 0.6 for heat gen. You don't have to cool heat you never get.

All of that on top of quirks that are typically much better for IS mechs and IS weapons that are naturally cooler.

• 
  
  
  IS Double Heat Sink: 0.22 h/s dissipation, 0.50 heat capacity
  
• 
  
  
  Clan Double Heat Sink: 0.20 h/s dissipation, 0.50 heat capacity

IS mechs get at most 10% (barring some really really bad mechs like the Vindi), most IS mechs however are limited by how many DHS they can even mount in the first place because well, most of their weapons are heavier and take up more space just like their upgrades like Endo/Ferro and also the liability that is IS XL on a majority of mechs so even safe engines are heavier (ie LFE). The end result is a lot of bandaids to help fix a problematic foundation.

[Remover of Obstacles]

Quicksilver Aberration, on 22 September 2024 - 05:11 PM, said:

IS mechs get at most 10% (barring some really really bad mechs like the Vindi), most IS mechs however are limited by how many DHS they can even mount in the first place because well, most of their weapons are heavier and take up more space just like their upgrades like Endo/Ferro and also the liability that is IS XL on a majority of mechs so even safe engines are heavier (ie LFE). The end result is a lot of bandaids to help fix a problematic foundation.

Correct, just trying to add context why 16 DHS on an IS mech seems much cooler than 26 DHS on a similar clan mech.
Although 10% heat is typical, quite a few get 10% heat on top of a weapon type specific heat reduction and/or a HSL for a particular weapon.

Nerfs and power creep are part of the life of most online games, especially ones that have been around this long. How many of the players from 2013 would have predicted having an assault mech on the field with 14 ballistics hardpoints?

[Remover of Obstacles]

Also, clan DHS have 4 health vs 10 health for other heat sinks.

That just feels bad.

[Douglas grizzly]

Angel of Annihilation, on 20 September 2024 - 02:10 PM, said:

So I have been away from the game for a while and coming back, it just seems to me that Clan weapons are likely ungodly bad with heat generation. I am trying to figure out if it is just me or if something was changed because I am like mounting 26 DHS on my clan mechs and it seems my IS build with like 16 are cooler.

I mean I am literally not enjoying any of my clan mechs because they just seem to melt.

They are quite a bit hotter and i have compared same items by writing down the numbers and the clan weapons are far hotter intentionally by pgi design. Whether that design is because of the company heads bias towards clans or playtester making it that way remains to be seen.
one i can comment on directly is clan uac20 versus inner sphere uac20 the clan weapon system is far hotter. clan system with max heat skills is a .504 minus (ish) versus innersphere is 1.07 plus a mech -10% extra dacca heat minus depending on mech. whether the extra range on a clan system balances out the differences is highly debatable imo.

[Angel of Annihilation]

Just checking back in on this topic and I am glad it isn't just me imagining things <sigh>.

That is too bad because strong or not I am not finding myself enjoying playing clan mechs anymore. My problem with them is that with the heat increase, they seem to have taken away any sort of sustained, firepower build out of the mechs which is how I tend to like to play. Instead, it is pretty much just step out, fire an alpha, hide, cool and repeat. I mean sure that is effective but boring as hell.

[Void Angel]

Have you tried non-energy armaments?

[Void Angel]

There are quite a few sustained damage builds out there, but you'll generally have to rely on dakka. Take This Blood Asp, for example, or the ever-beloved Sun Spider D.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Angel of Annihilation, on 12 October 2024 - 03:27 PM, said:

That is too bad because strong or not I am not finding myself enjoying playing clan mechs anymore. My problem with them is that with the heat increase, they seem to have taken away any sort of sustained, firepower build out of the mechs which is how I tend to like to play. Instead, it is pretty much just step out, fire an alpha, hide, cool and repeat. I mean sure that is effective but boring as hell.

There are plenty of sustained damage builds, the dakka Kodiak/Rhino being premier with an honorable mention to the Moonwalker/Dreadnaught. On the lighter ends there's still plenty of MG/APG spam boats that are pretty much the meta for mediums/lights (Incubus/Viper/Shadow Cat).

Anyone who whines about clan stuff not being good, is not a good pilot tbh. Clan mechs even after the heat nerf are still some of the best mechs in the game.

Edited by Quicksilver Aberration, 13 October 2024 - 11:00 AM.