120 replies to this topic

[Gorith]

When you factor lag legging a mech (esp one strafing around you) will likely not be that easy aslong as the physics and hitboxes are done right

[Xhaleon]

The only reason legging is considered a special unique tactic by itself is because most of the past MW games treated mech legs in the most cliche way possible, that losing one of them makes the mech completely helpless and totally disabled.

Provided that Piranha properly implements player control of a mech even with both legs gone, like we've discussed so much in the past, then there will be no issue with legging at all. It is oddly difficult for a mech to drag itself along on the tabletop when de-legged, but a real time game can accommodate more precise positioning than 30-meter hexes. Some mechs that have no proper arms will be truly helpless without legs, but merely amputating the legs of any other will simply result in being shot in the back. It would be a waste of time, unless you wanted to salvage it, which just fits right in with the difficulty.

[Demi-Precentor Konev]

Movement is life. If you don't want your legs targeted: use cover, keep your distance, don't sacrifice armor, etc.

[Adridos]

I don't complain about the fact someone else legged me, that never happened. I complain about the fact, that with legging, you can't shoot anywhere else. The whole MW 3 was about running around enemy and legging and legging, legging and once again legging. There was nothing as intentionally hitting torso or arms, just legs. You could only fire on that specific spot and that is a long way from fun.

Edited by Adridos, 03 January 2012 - 02:21 AM.

[Omigir]

I used tobe a light mech pilot, then I took an Arrow IV to the knee...

I used to be a Min/Maxer, then I took an Arrow IV to the knee...

I used to think MW3 was better then MW4, then I took an Arrow IV to the knee...

[Mchawkeye]

Pardon my ignorance, but if I was in, say, Nova, and you were in, say an Atlas, would leg targeting still be frowned upon?

Because, frankly, if I'm a significantly smaller mech, I would kick you in the metaphoricals if my back is against the wall.

Similar sized mech? time to show a little honour in combat, methinks.

[Felbombling]

Mchawkeye, on 03 January 2012 - 05:21 AM, said:

Similar sized mech? time to show a little honour in combat, methinks.

There is no honour among cheese.

[CeeKay Boques]

Having a leg with 10 hit boxes on it would certainly make it harder...

[Omigir]

our, have a 4 legged mech. DX<

OR!

10 leggs with 1 hit box each. XP

[Mchawkeye]

StaggerCheck, on 03 January 2012 - 08:26 AM, said:

There is no honour among cheese.

I think you'll find my Stinking Bishop to be amongst the finest, most upright cheeses in the land.

I would pardon you to not make sweeping generalisations about the moral nature of fine diary produce.

[Aaron DeChavilier]

this is where the TT actually helps:
let's look away from the silly accuracy mechanic (this is about leg damage fx, not hitting them)

in TT when you take a leg critical, there are 6 slots for each leg.
-Hip
-Upper Leg Actuator
-Lower Leg Actuator
-Foot Actuator
-Open
-Open

if there is no armor remaining on the leg, shots have a chance to cause a critical hit.
If any actuator is hit, movement is reduced IIRC
and a crit on the hip freezes the joint so the mech 'hobbles' or something - point is
the collective effects of these criticals won't outright kill you...they will get you killed.

so why not make legs 'indestructable' but each crit for each leg decreases movement,
agility, and ability to stand? that way legging affects you, however until they put you down
for good through reactor shots/ammo racking/decapitating; you can fight back albeit at a
slow rate of movement or completely unable to move. Using this idea; there are 8 areas to
crit and a player with all 8 crits knocked out is 8x slower than a pristine mech.

I hope that made sense O.o

Edited by Aaron DeChavilier, 03 January 2012 - 11:26 AM.

[CyBerkut]

It's war, folks. You don't get to dictate the opponent's strategy or tactics (including their targeting choices).

As for pilots who complain about legging, I suggest that everyone target the whiner's legs (if it makes tactical sense to do so) repeatedly until the whining stops.

We are all going to be playing with the same software. The publishers can be expected to fix glitches, and I imagine they will tweak the programming to obtain the balance that they desire. If they see legging is an inordinately large problem, they can adjust some things to make legging a less appealing tactic. I also suspect that if the publishers see that the complaints come almost entirely from people who are doing the min/max thing, they will likely conclude that they have things balanced just about right.

[That Guy]

both MW3 and MW4 did legging wrong. MW3 killed you, and MW4 you only limp once the leg is gone ignoring all the internal damage.

as long as legging is not a kill its fine. sure it will probably lead to a kill, but not be instantly lethal.


and legging is legit

[pcunite]

My take: legging is fine, with proper physics, maps, weapons, and hit miss reality it will all work out. Also, a missing leg is not the end of the mech's usefulness. There is no way I'm going to fight with honor ... we are talking about blowing up here ...

[Felicitatem Parco]

The OP is right, only YOU can prevent legging.


So... don't get shot in the leg.

[Havoc2]

Anyone who wines about a "dishonourable" tactic has handicapped themselves and either refuses to adapt or doesn't even know it.


Like in MW4 with people who stripped all armour from their legs and rear and then complained that they kept getting legged. If I can take out a heavy/assault 'Mech in 10 seconds by shooting the legs, why would I waste time and ammo shooting for the torso?

Similar things happened in MW2 with people whining about headshots after taking a chassis that was well known to have that vulnerability (Gladiator/Executioner).
If you intentionally take something that has a disadvantage, you can't whine when a good player knows and exploits that vulnerability. It's not "dishonourable", it's tactics.

Knowing an enemy's weakness and not taking advantage of it sounds like Clanner talk to me.

[Felbombling]

Something to point out, also, is that many Mechs have fairly weak leg armour protection on them as far as the technical readouts go, so even if you don't go into the MechLab and tinker with those values, you may suffer for it all the same, min/maxing or no.

[Stormvetprime]

I like the idea of smaller and multiple hit boxes on legs rather than just universal damage to the entire leg. Is that real-to-life if these things actually existed? No, if you blew out a knee in real life the thing would go down.

But, because its a game, make the fun last and require the leg-attacker to have to do a complete job, from hip to foot in order to take the leg out entirely.

Another countermeasure would be to allow 100% spinnable torso's (like with a tank turret or a power shovel you might see at a construction site). You wanna circle me and pound my legs? No problem, I'll just track you with my torso and beat the crap out of you too!

[Mchawkeye]

Stormvetprime, on 04 January 2012 - 12:48 PM, said:

I like the idea of smaller and multiple hit boxes on legs rather than just universal damage to the entire leg. Is that real-to-life if these things actually existed? No, if you blew out a knee in real life the thing would go down.

But, because its a game, make the fun last and require the leg-attacker to have to do a complete job, from hip to foot in order to take the leg out entirely.

Another countermeasure would be to allow 100% spinnable torso's (like with a tank turret or a power shovel you might see at a construction site). You wanna circle me and pound my legs? No problem, I'll just track you with my torso and beat the crap out of you too!

only a few mechs have a 360 torso. others, the design designates a certain lack of practicality in this department.

[plodder]

Prosperity Park, on 02 January 2012 - 08:41 PM, said:

Legging is fun!!!

I want to see a 30-ton war machine running down a city boulevard at 80 miles per hour and take a heavy gauss slug to the leg... my brain would fill with Benny Hill music!

I agree if it is a legit hit with a gauss, though it "should" be an incredible shot from someone sniping in a hidden fixed position, no board game rules on this, if nothing else please!!!!!!!