152 replies to this topic

[Meep Meep]

Ok after another long session these things need a bit better heat dissipation due to the clan double sink nerf and the absolute inability to mount even a single additional sink on any fit. I know it came pre-nerfed with a 7.5% value but its not nearly enough. Maybe give it an additional 5% ~but~ tied to the so8 so you can't mix and match a lasvom fit and still get the better heat dissipation.

[Sinistrum]

The learning curve on these is steep and they are not forgiving.

[w0qj]

Gives new meaning to "Bullet Time", a term first popularized by a famous movie

GETREKT4K, on 21 February 2025 - 03:21 PM, said:

There definitely is something going on between 170-200 kph that is making damage spread way more than it should. I have had match after match where they just shrug off 25-30 damage alphas from ppc or ap-gauss fire like it was a small laser. People spectating me also commented on how ridiculous it looks to get 4-5 direct hits and their armor barely turns orange.

Then there was the time I shot at one that was literally standing still. Direct hit. 0 damage. Also someone else saw it on voice chat and was like wtf?

[kalashnikity]

I think the heat dissipation is fine, and I have not noticed any failures to take damage (yet), but remember this was an ongoing thing for all mechs.

I could argue they might need about 5 more armor on those thick legs, or maybe 5 more structure, since I'm tending to lose legs first about 90% of the time. Arms are rarely the first things to come of, they have plenty of armor for their thickness, I even stripped the arms to their base armor value on my AL buildand I still rarely lose them first, the arms are just so thin that it's hard to hit them.

Firemoth spreads damage superbly on the torsos.

Biggest problem I'm having is hitting hills and getting in a "stuck" condition, where the mech just sits there on a hill until cryengine can figure out what to do with the physics, so you have to be real careful how you hit a hill. Nothing we can do to fix that, it's just exacerbated by the FMT ability to go up much steeper hills better than any other mech, due to it's speed.

[DoucheNugg3t]

Fire Moth looks like a mini-me Blood Asp

[Sinistrum]

kalashnikity, on 22 February 2025 - 07:34 AM, said:

I think the heat dissipation is fine, and I have not noticed any failures to take damage (yet), but remember this was an ongoing thing for all mechs.

I could argue they might need about 5 more armor on those thick legs, or maybe 5 more structure, since I'm tending to lose legs first about 90% of the time. Arms are rarely the first things to come of, they have plenty of armor for their thickness, I even stripped the arms to their base armor value on my AL buildand I still rarely lose them first, the arms are just so thin that it's hard to hit them.

Firemoth spreads damage superbly on the torsos.

Biggest problem I'm having is hitting hills and getting in a "stuck" condition, where the mech just sits there on a hill until cryengine can figure out what to do with the physics, so you have to be real careful how you hit a hill. Nothing we can do to fix that, it's just exacerbated by the FMT ability to go up much steeper hills better than any other mech, due to it's speed.

I agree about the legs, I haven't been legged so much before.

DoucheNugg3t, on 22 February 2025 - 10:05 AM, said:

Fire Moth looks like a mini-me Blood Asp

It's the Mist Lynx Cornholio edition.

[Drenzul]

For the most part the firemoth is fine.

What gets annoying is when the hitreg is wonky.

We already had issues with teleporting/blinking lights. Happens worse with firemoths.
Hit a firemoth with 4xLBX-20 at under 200m, far as I could tell it was a clean hit. When the targeting kicked in
a few seconds later, he was at best orange in his torso armour.

[GreyNovember]

Drenzul, on 23 February 2025 - 01:16 PM, said:

For the most part the firemoth is fine.

What gets annoying is when the hitreg is wonky.

We already had issues with teleporting/blinking lights. Happens worse with firemoths.
Hit a firemoth with 4xLBX-20 at under 200m, far as I could tell it was a clean hit. When the targeting kicked in
a few seconds later, he was at best orange in his torso armour.

This is accounting for latency, right?

Like, I have to make sure that we all understand that ultimately we're playing a game that has SOME degree of lag based on what the last state the server says is correct, compared to what your client has, until it updates?

Because whenever I read "I hit it on my screen", I'm not sure that's understood.

[crazytimes]

I watched a pack of them and a commando try and brawl to finish a match. No one could actually register hits on each other.

I'll wait until they lose their +14 back armour next patch to make a decision, but at the moment they magnify the impact of liviing in regional Australia with government crippled internet a bit more than optimal for fun.

[Drenzul]

GreyNovember, on 23 February 2025 - 05:18 PM, said:

This is accounting for latency, right?

Like, I have to make sure that we all understand that ultimately we're playing a game that has SOME degree of lag based on what the last state the server says is correct, compared to what your client has, until it updates?

Because whenever I read "I hit it on my screen", I'm not sure that's understood.

Since I'm a software engineer, I'm going to go with yes
Also we have features which compensate for lag, hence why you can sometimes get hit when you are behind a building.

Fairly sure its the same issue with certain other fast lights. Not sure if people are deliberately varying their ping to confuse the anti-lag tools and making themselves harder to hit or if the system is just having issues trying to compensate when a laggy person is moving that fast.

[GreyNovember]

Drenzul, on 24 February 2025 - 12:09 AM, said:

Not sure if people are deliberately varying their ping to confuse the anti-lag tools and making themselves harder to hit or if the system is just having issues trying to compensate when a laggy person is moving that fast.

As someone who used to regularly play with 200+ Ping on every server that would occasionally spike to 600-1000, somehow I don't see that happening.

Because when it happened, the experience was grossly unpleasant. Client would rubberband back and disorient you, with you exploding if it carried you just a little too far past safe cover.

[WTFlo]

GreyNovember, on 21 February 2025 - 12:19 PM, said:

This one's a bit of a contentious point, because what an "Assault mech alpha" is varies.

2x LBX20 and 4X CSRM6? 40+24 damage, spread across probably the whole mech. Let's say you only hit the torsos, and every single part of that alpha hits. Looking at maybe 20-ish damage on each component, if you did this whlie they were standing still and within optimal range. Less, naturally, if the spread is greater or you miss pellets.

6 CERML + 2 CLPL? 36 + 26 damage. Realistically let's say maybe 75% of that total burn is on target on a single torso. 45+ Damage, which should be enough to pop it, if it isn't twisting or moving at all to counter the burn. If it is, 20 damage sounds more reasonable, assuming none of that burn misses.

Twin heavy Gauss in optimal range? 50 damage straight up in one location, if you hit. Ends us instantly if you get the CT. Rips off a leg otherwise.

Yes, I know and I really started to doubt my abilities to point in a direction and click in a video game. I also admit that I was in quite the bad mood due to all of this, starting to rush in Kamikaze style, wandering off on my own and what not, which of course, only made it worse. so I took a step back, calmed down and then closely monitored what was really happening.

And when I spectated other players, I noticed often enough, that they have the same problems. There were several occasions when people were shooting POINT BLANK at slow moving or even standing Fire Moths, clearly landing full alphas (crosshair turning red) and their armor wouldn't even change colors on the damage display.

Maybe my first post implied that Fire Moths have extreme armor values are something, but this is clearly not the case. It's more like shots are not being registered in some cases. Highlight was a Blood Asp player with 2 LB20's and a bunch of SRM6's trying to finish a legged Fire Moth, hitting 3 full volleys in a row and the Moth's armor display wouldn't change AT ALL. Yes, those are spread weapons, but the FMT was less then 100m away from the BAS and from my POV, it looked like at least 80% of all pellets and missiles where hitting center mass. Then another mech came to the rescue and just killed the FMT like there wasn't any problem whatsoever. The BAS player then voiced his frustration in VC and I told him I witnessed all of it. I wish I had recording software running, but I usually don't record my gameplay.

Also, I fully believe it when players are saying that this is a very hard mech to play. For me, any light light is hard to play, that's why I'm not touching them with a stick. But I stand by my point: Something is definately wrong here, be it the servers, player connectivity, models, hitboxes or whatever, I really don't know. I can only report what I saw. And I would never post here if I wasn't fully convinced that there's something wrong, trust me.

Edited by WTFlo, 25 February 2025 - 09:23 AM.

[GreyNovember]

To contrast the anecdote, I found an AFK Firemoth at spawn, while running in a Firemoth.Burned through the CT with no issue. So standing as still as it possibly can be, there is no weirdness.

Once we're moving though? Yeah, nah, I'm going to assume that any shots I take against them will only really do 3-5 damage at best in a dogfight, and my goal is to play defensively with MASC, stutter stepping to throw off the opponent's aim lead in addition to how that will reflect on the server once it gets my input, processes it, and reflects that on other people's screens.

I still make it a point to immediately twist as I retreat when corner poking, and do still get CT stripped from time to time. The nonsense goes both ways, which I'll chalk up as fair considering the shenanigans I do.

Definitely using "Speed as armor". Just not in the way that's most intuitive.

FWIW, there's been ONE guy I've run into in an osiris twice, kitted out in MPL. Dude hits legs SCARILY consistently each time.

Edited by GreyNovember, 25 February 2025 - 12:27 PM.

[CFC Conky]

I've been running FMTs exclusively since they came out. At first, I felt very safe in them but I believe the player base is getting the hang of how to kill them so I now have to be as careful as in any other 20-ton ride.

Good hunting,
CFC Conky

[Void Angel]

Krucilatoz, on 19 February 2025 - 06:19 AM, said:

i was spectate someone using firemoth and he run 200+ kph,... like, what the ??? how do I, with 250+ms ping, going to hit that ..

Well, host-state rewind, that's how. Your ping doesn't matter (with caveats) because the game keeps track of where the enemy was when you shot at them. Essentially, if you see it hit on your screen, it hit on the server. High pings like yours can cause an increase in hit registration issues, as can fast-moving 'mechs (that's why the Firemoth's MASC is nerfed.)

SafeScanner, on 20 February 2025 - 10:48 AM, said:

I gotta say these high arms are making me paranoid feel like people can still see me even when i am behind a hill

We can.

[Saved By The Bell]

Some moths are very danger, scouting and eating assaults backs on early stages. But most of them rtds, running around teammates (stay together).

Hit regs strange now. Somebody shoot me. I turned back, it was moth 50m distance, shutting down from heat. My clan marauder shoot him in center with 2 large pulses + 6 er mid lasers. 62 damage (moth standing still). Well after that moth woke up and run away. Something is very broken.

Edited by Saved By The Bell, 25 February 2025 - 11:39 PM.

[Meep Meep]

Saved By The Bell, on 25 February 2025 - 11:31 PM, said:

Some moths are very danger, scouting and eating assaults backs on early stages. But most of them rtds, running around teammates (stay together).

Hit regs strange now. Somebody shoot me. I turned back, it was moth 50m distance, shutting down from heat. My clan marauder shoot him in center with 2 large pulses + 6 er mid lasers. 62 damage (moth standing still). Well after that moth woke up and run away. Something is very broken.

Mech is very skill based. A terror in a gud players hands and a minor annoyance in the rest.

As to the hit reg this is across all mechs and weapons but laser especially seem to be effected. I've dumped multiple full burns into a red ct and while it flashes there isn't any actual damage being applied.

[GreyNovember]

Void Angel, on 25 February 2025 - 08:38 PM, said:

Well, host-state rewind, that's how. Your ping doesn't matter (with caveats) because the game keeps track of where the enemy was when you shot at them. Essentially, if you see it hit on your screen, it hit on the server. High pings like yours can cause an increase in hit registration issues, as can fast-moving 'mechs (that's why the Firemoth's MASC is nerfed.)

Is there a technical writeup on how this is implemented in MWO?

Because this sounds barely sounds any different from every client being authoritative on it's own. If a client can say "I Saw him and shot him, he got hit", that doesn't sound ideal for only having one version of reality.

[Void Angel]

GreyNovember, on 26 February 2025 - 07:05 AM, said:

Is there a technical writeup on how this is implemented in MWO?

Because this sounds barely sounds any different from every client being authoritative on it's own. If a client can say "I Saw him and shot him, he got hit", that doesn't sound ideal for only having one version of reality.

Uh, I'd have to search it up, but yes, there was a write-up - and no, MWO is 100% server-authoritative. Waaaaay too much cheating the other way, which is why we have servers.

What happens in MWO is that the server keeps a sort of floating rewind state of the positions of all 'mechs in the match. When I pull the trigger, my client sends that data to the server, which then looks at where my target would have been at the time I fired, calculates the effects (and aim) of the weapon I used, and then notifies your client of what happened. It's server-authoritative at both ends; no matter what you tell your client to report back, you can't change the server's judgement. Before this system, called Host-State Rewind, was implemented, you'd have to lead fast-moving targets and take note of if your reticle turned red in order to see if you hit them - in fact, you'd have to lead that target with a laser. HSR stops that from happening, and like I said before, it's totally server-authoritative. If both players are under 100 ping, the whole thing, me shooting to you registering the hit, will happen faster than human visual response time. However, higher pings will be more noticeable - this is why you've had sort of truncated moments where your 'mech (or your target) goes from live to dead faster than it feels should happen.

This is a different process from hit registration, however, which - anecdotally - may be more pronounced at higher net pings. Also anecdotally, hit registration failures may happen more often at higher speeds. However, there is a HUGE caveat to this - notice that the faster a target is going, the more likely a player is to miss them and mistakenly believe they hit the target. I have never seen the people who swear up and down that hitreg failures are a terrible, terrible plague ever present good evidence that it happens all the time. Still, it DOES happen occasionally, and that might be what you were originally experiencing.

[Flash Riprock]

The Fire Moth leaderboard claims it is updated every 15 minutes. I think that is incorrect.
Change my mind.