70 replies to this topic

[nanashi0110]

I think the opinions of the convention crowd are less than 10% of the total and should be ignored.
(I don't know what percentage of the player population is conventioneers, but in general there are more non-competitioneers, right?)
I believe SSRM is used in many cases to blame fast moving mechs.
So I don't think we should listen too much to the side that is being hit (=light mechs)?


So from a general perspective...
There are too many things needed to make it function (= too weak against ECM) is what I felt after using SSRM all over again.
Lock-on weapons such as LRM/ATM/TB have the same problem, but are covered by their ability to be non-locking fire and their longer range.
Need TAG to lock ECM, need BAP/CAP to prevent ECM interference. If you have an enhanced ECM and Radar Deprivation, isn't it impossible to counterattack?
There is no place for SSRM in the current game, especially if the light mechs you want to deal with are equipped with these elements, as they cannot even play a role and are neutralized...


What SSRM needs is a radical spec change to fix these problems, or add magic items, or crazy Quirk...
Not too realistic X(
I wish SSRM at least had a conical TAG function.

[Davegt27]

stealth shuts down streaks

and 2 ECM mechs together also shut down streaks

I would not make any changes (just suck it up)

[GreyNovember]

This also really boils down to WHY you want streaks, specifically, to be a thing.

What are you trying to accomplish?

Is it only because it's a weapon that doesn't have a dedicated superquirk pay only mech available, and you want one only because it ticks a checkbox for completion?

Are you honestly looking for a mech that is P2W in a 1v1? A mech that is more likely than not to win in a straight fight?

[Ttly]

You know, there is this one streak playstyle that hardly anyone has mentioned, because it's not even really that good.
And it's the "high mobility variants for people that can't aim while moving" type.
Basically something like the LCT-1M(aka LRM Locust) or the IFR-C.

[LordNothing]

pbiggz, on 01 May 2025 - 04:55 PM, said:

that is not why streaks suffer lol

things were better when we could decrease lock time with tag. you cant do that any more so i usually rip out the tag and bap for a light ppc (though il keep the bap if i have the tonnage).

most mw games have had a soft lock for streaks. hard lock is needed for idf but soft lock is faster and can be used at short ranges los. but pgi tries to cover all weapons with a single lock mechanic. however i think you may be able to implement soft lock in mwo. since lock time is based on range, los and ecm presence (see the lerm overhall patch notes). all you need to do is tweak the lock time vs range curve so that lower lock times are available at shorter ranges. though you now have the problem that this buffs all the mid-long range weapons at the shorter ranges. fortunately they have min range mechanics that either prevent or reduce that effect.

minimum ranges:
lrm 180 (hard minimum)
tbolt 150 (half damage inside)
clrm 180 (exponential inside)
atms 60 (hard minimum)

im not quite sure what the minimum lock time and range presently are (if somone knows where to find the curve, let me know). i read the lerm overhaul patch notes and it was kind of vague about actual numbers. but it seems like locks take about a second minimum from the video. you can walk that slope down to whatever time coincides with 150m so it doesnt buff lerms in any meaningul way, even the exponential fall off on clan lerms would make them kind of useless at 150 and tbolts do half damage inside 150. you still have atms to worry about. but we can do a linear ramp down from 150 to zero (or whatever you want the min lock time to be) lock time at 50m. the los buff and ecm penalty apply to that in the usual ways.

alternatively we could do a different lock curve for each techbase. is can floor out at 150 and clans at 120. inner sphere is a lot simpler in that nothing but streaks and half damage tbolts get the lock time buff. clanners get a lower threshold so that their lerms dont do much of anything with fast locks. the clans still get a defacto atm buff but less pronounced. frankly if you are using atms at that range you have already made a mistake and the enemy could get you in a clinch with an ac20 that you wont recover from.

another alternative is half locks, where streaks can fire so long as lock is above 50% complete. though that is probibly a lot more involved than tweaking a float curve.

Edited by LordNothing, 10 May 2025 - 08:33 PM.

[nanashi0110]

GreyNovember, on 10 May 2025 - 09:49 AM, said:

This also really boils down to WHY you want streaks, specifically, to be a thing.

What are you trying to accomplish?

Is it only because it's a weapon that doesn't have a dedicated superquirk pay only mech available, and you want one only because it ticks a checkbox for completion?

Are you honestly looking for a mech that is P2W in a 1v1? A mech that is more likely than not to win in a straight fight?

Yes, I've strayed too far. I want to go back to the beginning.
So my requirements are as per the OP.
I want a LEGEND MECH with a more manageable SSRM.
By a more manageable SSRM, I mean that the SSRM alone can compete with ECM and stealth and is capable of non-locking fire or has value in lieu of it.

[Ttly]

GreyNovember, on 10 May 2025 - 09:49 AM, said:

This also really boils down to WHY you want streaks, specifically, to be a thing.

What are you trying to accomplish?

Is it only because it's a weapon that doesn't have a dedicated superquirk pay only mech available, and you want one only because it ticks a checkbox for completion?

Are you honestly looking for a mech that is P2W in a 1v1? A mech that is more likely than not to win in a straight fight?

You know what, streaks aren't even the best anti-light builds anymore you ask me that it warrants being labeled as oppressive towards them.
It's stuff like super short -burn duration builds the likes of the BLC Trebuchet, Kintaro, Sigma played by people that can actually aim. Really, just accurate pinpoint weapons in general which while streaks somewhat falls into, is also limited by other factors.

If someone falls to a streak user it really often feels more like a positioning error on the victim's part, or the streak user anticipating you appropriately on account of their limited range and velocity backed with the direct flight trajectory limiting it.

Edited by Ttly, 11 May 2025 - 07:20 PM.

[pbiggz]

LordNothing, on 10 May 2025 - 08:26 PM, said:

things were better when we could decrease lock time with tag. you cant do that any more so i usually rip out the tag and bap for a light ppc (though il keep the bap if i have the tonnage).

most mw games have had a soft lock for streaks. hard lock is needed for idf but soft lock is faster and can be used at short ranges los. but pgi tries to cover all weapons with a single lock mechanic. however i think you may be able to implement soft lock in mwo. since lock time is based on range, los and ecm presence (see the lerm overhall patch notes). all you need to do is tweak the lock time vs range curve so that lower lock times are available at shorter ranges. though you now have the problem that this buffs all the mid-long range weapons at the shorter ranges. fortunately they have min range mechanics that either prevent or reduce that effect.

minimum ranges:
lrm 180 (hard minimum)
tbolt 150 (half damage inside)
clrm 180 (exponential inside)
atms 60 (hard minimum)

im not quite sure what the minimum lock time and range presently are (if somone knows where to find the curve, let me know). i read the lerm overhaul patch notes and it was kind of vague about actual numbers. but it seems like locks take about a second minimum from the video. you can walk that slope down to whatever time coincides with 150m so it doesnt buff lerms in any meaningul way, even the exponential fall off on clan lerms would make them kind of useless at 150 and tbolts do half damage inside 150. you still have atms to worry about. but we can do a linear ramp down from 150 to zero (or whatever you want the min lock time to be) lock time at 50m. the los buff and ecm penalty apply to that in the usual ways.

alternatively we could do a different lock curve for each techbase. is can floor out at 150 and clans at 120. inner sphere is a lot simpler in that nothing but streaks and half damage tbolts get the lock time buff. clanners get a lower threshold so that their lerms dont do much of anything with fast locks. the clans still get a defacto atm buff but less pronounced. frankly if you are using atms at that range you have already made a mistake and the enemy could get you in a clinch with an ac20 that you wont recover from.

another alternative is half locks, where streaks can fire so long as lock is above 50% complete. though that is probibly a lot more involved than tweaking a float curve.

All of this is reasonable. That's not why Dave is here. He's here to complain about his toy getting taken away while insinuating a whole bunch of uncharitable crap about people who haven't actually done him any wrong.

[LordNothing]

pbiggz, on 11 May 2025 - 07:51 PM, said:

All of this is reasonable. That's not why Dave is here. He's here to complain about his toy getting taken away while insinuating a whole bunch of uncharitable crap about people who haven't actually done him any wrong.

im a ppfld guy for the most part, but i do play pokemechs. part of playing pokemechs is that im im required to use diverse loadouts to run mechs with hardpoints that dont lend themselves to my preferred weapons. i just dont like weapons that exist for no useful reason. rocket launchers are a prime example. i want to use them, but they just aren't useful for anything but infinite ammo events. so i suggest mechanics that are within the cauldron's capabilities to implement. that didnt work out so well for rocket launchers, but maybe we can save streaks from being relegated to meme weapons.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Ttly, on 11 May 2025 - 07:18 PM, said:

You know what, streaks aren't even the best anti-light builds anymore you ask me that it warrants being labeled as oppressive towards them.
It's stuff like super short -burn duration builds the likes of the BLC Trebuchet, Kintaro, Sigma played by people that can actually aim. Really, just accurate pinpoint weapons in general which while streaks somewhat falls into, is also limited by other factors.

While those are good, streaks trivialize having to aim making them more reliable as an anti-light than a hot laser build that doesn't necessarily have the DPS to really keep up with say a wolf pack. Streaks are particularly good against the 20 tonners which are pretty potent these days.

This last comp tourney saw plenty of streak usage in lighter drops because of it. In cases where you'd want MGs for consistent DPS against lights, streaks work almost as well (it's just a bit terrain dependent).

[Bassault]

nanashi0110, on 28 April 2025 - 02:06 PM, said:

I've been playing for about 6 months and I've never really encountered a SSRM.
As soon as you try it, you'll see that there are just too many problems with this weapon...

1. it can't attack unless it locks on.
No other lock-on weapon does that. It's a limitation of this weapon only.

2. it doesn't work with SSRM alone.
I know some will argue “that's not true,” but without the LTAG we're not talking about it.
That means you need at least one energy HP, not just missile HP. The build is subtle and cumbersome.

3. high hurdles and low returns
Even if you clear the above problems, it's not that strong after all.
If you can keep aiming, an MG/LAS of the same number or weight is much better, or even an SRM will suffice.

So I'd like to see a legend mech with the habits and HP to solve these problems.
I thought this was the only option that would have far less impact than renovating the SSRM itself, yet still meet a niche demand.


As an additional requirement, I thought it would be nice to have a quirk to enhance counter-ECM and BAP/CAP, since using SSRM is usually a light killer (especially the ones with ECM and stealth).
Since there will also be LEGENDs with fixed armaments, it would be nice to bring some unique equipment that would be a hard counter to stealth and ECM
(I am not familiar with the MW Universe, so I don't know if there is such a thing...)

Play for another 6 months and then you'll realize why having streakers being good is a bad idea.