213 replies to this topic

[martian]

Saved By The Bell, on 16 July 2025 - 06:39 AM, said:

Unable to find match=> turn off tier system

I am ok with it. When I was a dead noob, I got huge experience, watching better players, which were still alive in match.

You have been willing to learn. That is why you have climbed to Tier 1.

However, there are many MWO players in lower Tiers who are not only incapable of learning, but actually refusing to learn.

Edited by martian, 17 July 2025 - 12:55 PM.

[LordNothing]

1453 R, on 17 July 2025 - 11:35 AM, said:

You are the reason I find a place to display the Trans and Progressive pride flags on every 'Mech I run, when I play MWO. You are the reason companies like Piranha giving us the ability to do things like display Pride flags on our 'Mechs is important. This sort of transmisiac nonsense is why we still have a month out of the year.

Trans rights. Whether certain controversial top compie players want them or not. Whether this is "the place" for them or not. if we don't have rights everywhere, we don't have them anywhere. Don't want us showing our colors in your robot violence game? Stop being the reason we wear them.

trans people actual do not disturb me nearly as much as the pride movement does. im even a little trans attracted myself and im bisexual. but i view people who wave pride flags in sort of the same way i see people who wave confederate flags, or gadston flags (even though im a little libertarian too). this kind of micronationalism walls people off from each other and traps them in echo chambers. i can live with people who wave the american flag though, since the constitution wants to give everyone the same rights, not rights based on check boxes.

Edited by LordNothing, 17 July 2025 - 01:32 PM.

[1453 R]

LordNothing, on 17 July 2025 - 01:32 PM, said:

trans people actual do not disturb me nearly as much as the pride movement does. im even a little trans attracted myself and im bisexual. but i view people who wave pride flags in sort of the same way i see people who wave confederate flags, or gadston flags (even though im a little libertarian too). this kind of micronationalism walls people off from each other and traps them in echo chambers. i can live with people who wave the american flag though, since the constitution wants to give everyone the same rights, not rights based on check boxes.

I getcha.

I do, honest.

It can feel like LGBTQ+ folk are being pushy, obnoxious, and terribly rude. Like we're picking fights everywhere we go, fights that don't need to happen, just to try and "force our ideology" on people. People like D A T A, and several other people I've seen in this forum, like to argue "why do we have to deal with it here?! Why can't this just be a place where we can talk about 'Mechs, and MWO, and BattleTech?!" Because this isn't a political forum, it's a game fandom forum, and they want it to be a place where it's okay to talk about MWO, 'Mechs, and BattleTech.

Or, in other words...they want this to be a place where it's not okay to be trans. Where it's shameful to be trans. Where you have to hide it away, tuck it aside, and conform to the norm because that's the polite thing to do in a space that Isn't About LGBTQ+ Stuff. It's the comfortable thing to do. It's the safe, easy, peacemaking thing to do that avoids unnecessary conflict and lets everybody get along without the need for a big flaming fistfight over Ideals(C).

Okay. So say we do that here. And then, over in the Path of Exile forums, we get the same thing. "This isn't the place, this isn't the time! This is where fans of PoE can talk about PoE, why do you HAVE to make this your ideological battleground?!" So we do the polite thing over there, too. We hide who we are, we let their desire to shame us into secrecy win.

And then we do it again. And again. And again. Until NOWHERE is the place to be LGBTQ+, and we end up all erased from the whole of society because of one "inconsequential" little battle we let slide after another. Because we kept doing the polite thing and shutting up to not cause a scene. We let the bigots win, inch by inch, through an earnest desire to be kinder than they are.

Pride is about rejecting that idea. Rejecting the notion that it's somehow rude to stand up for ourselves. Notice I didn't say a damn thing to prompt D A T A to take shots at us - he took shots at LGBTQ+ folks and Pride of his own volition, I simply called him on it. He doesn't get to hold that W uncontested. He doesn't get to tell us to shut up and be polite. He doesn't get to make this a battleground and then be upset when the other side steps up to fight back.

Is this forum the "right" place for it? Yes. You're god damned right it is, because this is a place I am, and I am trans. If the conversation isn't about trans-ness? Cool - we can talk about robots. But if someone's going to make the conversation about us and our Pride, then I for one will not back down.

Because if I back down for D A T A, who else am I going to back down for? Who else gets to put their boot on my throat, or gets to freely get away with associating LGBTQ+ people with the sorry state of MWO the way he did?

[Tiy0s]

I'm always happy to see a vibrant exchange of ideas between players and this thread hasn't been a disappointment. Means people are passionate about the game. But there's one comment I'm going to throw in here before I leave you all to your devices.

I added pride content in 2023. One patch had a trans themed mech and a few decals. These decals did not impact balance, the Desperada was not OP, nor did I forcefully inject them into your account. If you did not like them, you were not forced to equip them or to play the the Desperada. In the grand scheme of the game, they changed nothing. But they did help some people feel like they belong and were seen by the company and developers of MWO. If you have a problem with one harmless mech and those three decals being added to the point that you are harping on it two years later, I would respectfully remind you where the door is. Data's comments about pride content in MWO was unbecoming of a (former) cauldron member in 2022 and they're equally disappointing now.

We all have our beliefs on balance, the state of the game, its ups and downs, and you can always feel free to post them here on the forums. But keep that extra tidbit to yourself, please.

(I'm probably going to get a mild scolding for this post but you gotta say what you gotta say)

[1453 R]

Thank you, Tiy0s. Frankly I was expecting a scolding myself. But I absolutely agree. Sometimes, you gotta say what you gotta say. And now I need to go investigate Desperada because I was unaware of its origins and am deeply unobservant oft times, heh.

[a 5 year old with an Uzi]

it's kind of funny that whenever I run into someone like trans catgirl they're pretty pleasant and when I run into someone who is of the persuasion that does not like trans catgirls they have a higher tendency to be unpleasant

Was considering Desperada on alt but it's not an Unseen or an Urbie. Warhorn and bolt ons are cute.

[LordNothing]

data certainly has personality flaws with his power games and entitlement. he does not represent the bulk of the community, fortunately.

a 5 year old with an Uzi, on 17 July 2025 - 05:20 PM, said:

it's kind of funny that whenever I run into someone like trans catgirl they're pretty pleasant and when I run into someone who is of the persuasion that does not like trans catgirls they have a higher tendency to be unpleasant

Was considering Desperada on alt but it's not an Unseen or an Urbie. Warhorn and bolt ons are cute.

i kind of liked the desperada. possibly the cutest warhorn and badges in the game. catgirls are good too.

Edited by LordNothing, 17 July 2025 - 05:52 PM.

[Meep Meep]

Tiy0s, on 17 July 2025 - 04:58 PM, said:

I'm always happy to see a vibrant exchange of ideas between players and this thread hasn't been a disappointment. Means people are passionate about the game. But there's one comment I'm going to throw in here before I leave you all to your devices.

I added pride content in 2023. One patch had a trans themed mech and a few decals. These decals did not impact balance, the Desperada was not OP, nor did I forcefully inject them into your account. If you did not like them, you were not forced to equip them or to play the the Desperada. In the grand scheme of the game, they changed nothing. But they did help some people feel like they belong and were seen by the company and developers of MWO. If you have a problem with one harmless mech and those three decals being added to the point that you are harping on it two years later, I would respectfully remind you where the door is. Data's comments about pride content in MWO was unbecoming of a (former) cauldron member in 2022 and they're equally disappointing now.

We all have our beliefs on balance, the state of the game, its ups and downs, and you can always feel free to post them here on the forums. But keep that extra tidbit to yourself, please.

(I'm probably going to get a mild scolding for this post but you gotta say what you gotta say)

You shouldn't be scolded for your views if they are presented in a reasonable and honest way(they were) and I personally don't care how an adult conducts their personal business. However. The bit of backlash on the pride content I think was not directed at the mech or decals themselves but the fact that its a statement of a particular sexual orientation and the logic is what does sexual orientation have to do with pew pew mechs? If you have pride in your sexual orientation choice more power to you and I wish you well but not everyone agrees with it and they have every right to. I don't think such real life social stances should be in a game everyone from around the world plays some of whom wildly disagree with pride stuff on religious and social grounds. We don't have mechs or cosmetics that represent anything else from real life other than some shared holiday stuff. Again I have no issues with either the pride groups or the mwo pride content but just tossing out there not everyone agrees or has to agree.

Now on topic. What will keep mwo alive? New players. Find a way to draw in new players and bang we got years left. At this point new players are almost going to come completely from the streaming community exposing it to gamers in general. A low/no cost option would be to make some 'press' accounts for streamers to use that have some reach and are willing to feature it. You might have to reach out to many before you get some hits but thats something an intern can do between fetching coffee and the mail.

A good example would be ROBBO. He is an established wargamer streamer with a decent audience who picked up mwo for a few months and many of his followers joined the game because he was playing it.

Oh and UPDATE the freaking game settings. Very high is made for decade and a half old hardware and the game is able to look so much better with the very high settings adjusted for more draw range etc. This has already been well tested via configs and the one I use to push the game into ultra is quite stable and barely any more demanding than very high. So many people I see think the game plays fine but they don't like the terrain and texture pop in etc even on highest.

Edited by Meep Meep, 17 July 2025 - 06:48 PM.

[Stonefalcon]

I've been saying it for ages, ultimate cash cow for PGI, allow players to pay to drop tiers.

[Davegt27]

I sort of panicked when I came back from a family reunion and I saw early AM steam charts with less then 200 players
and made this thread
I don't think but know that DATA is spot on, you might as well say the game is for some specific favored group

but back to the subject
what can we do
I noticed they have an event, my favorite event was the chassis challenge (it is where I learned who the best pilots where in each mech type)

PGI seems to like the tier system how about a tier challenge
the T1 pilots can battle for the top of the top and so on down the line

[LordNothing]

Stonefalcon, on 17 July 2025 - 08:57 PM, said:

I've been saying it for ages, ultimate cash cow for PGI, allow players to pay to drop tiers.

just run f tier mechs.

[1453 R]

Meep Meep, on 17 July 2025 - 06:40 PM, said:

You shouldn't be scolded for your views if they are presented in a reasonable and honest way(they were) and I personally don't care how an adult conducts their personal business. However. The bit of backlash on the pride content I think was not directed at the mech or decals themselves but the fact that its a statement of a particular sexual orientation and the logic is what does sexual orientation have to do with pew pew mechs? If you have pride in your sexual orientation choice more power to you and I wish you well but not everyone agrees with it and they have every right to. I don't think such real life social stances should be in a game everyone from around the world plays some of whom wildly disagree with pride stuff on religious and social grounds. We don't have mechs or cosmetics that represent anything else from real life other than some shared holiday stuff. Again I have no issues with either the pride groups or the mwo pride content but just tossing out there not everyone agrees or has to agree.

"Conscientious religious objections" sounds so much nicer than bigotry, doesn't it? Even though it's exactly the same damn thing.

This is exactly the sort of thing I spoke about just a few posts above. This idea that it's somehow rude, or obnoxious, or pushy, to simply be LGBTQ+ in a "public" space. The crime of Existing While Trans. That if we were polite reasonable people who didn't want to cause a scene, we'd simply take off our LGBTQ+-ness and leave it at the door, like a pair of dirty shoes, because it's simply not necessary in a place like this. And because it's not necessary, people who push it anyways are simply being preventably rude to others who have Conscientious Religious Objections to our "choices."

Conscientious Religious Objections get us thrown out of stores for daring to walk into them in a blouse.
Conscientious Religious Objections get us denied essential goods and services because their suppliers don't like us and don't feel it's "fair" for us to have access to all the same things cishet people do.
Conscientious Religious Objections get us denied jobs, medical coverage, civil services, and other things we need to live our freaking lives.

"Conscientious Religions Objections" are not a ******* cheat code to discrimination. Discrimination is discrimination is discrimination however you want to label it, and the literal entire point of Pride is standing against this sort of "polite" discrimination. You can disagree with our "choices" all you like; that gives you no right to shun and shame us out of existence. Your "Objections" to our existence is a "You" problem. Not an "Everyone" problem. And it's sure as all hell not our problem, right up until you decide you're going to make it our problem.

My identity is not a dirty gym outfit to be stuffed in a locker whenever someone else doesn't care for the smell. We don't ask people to check their crucifixes at the door, to never ever ever mention the Qur'an, or otherwise hide/cover up/be ashamed of their religious beliefs. Why the Sam Shatner Bleedin' Manhell do religious people get to demand this of us? Why do YOU get to be the one to decide what is and isn't "appropriate" for discussion? Again, I didn't start this. D A T A did. But I'm for damn sure not going to let him, or you, finish it.

We exist. Deal with it. That is Pride.

Tiy0s, just bought the Desperada pack, heh. It is not even remotely my style of 'Mech and I have zero idea what I'm gonna do with it, but the least I can do is put my money where my mouth is. Thanks for pointing out what was in retrospect blindingly obvious to me, heh. Life with -3 to Perception can get wild sometimes.

[Will9761]

AFAIK, I believe that the Trans Pride Flag was added along with the Desperada as an apology for the 3 anti-trans problems they have done, not out of anything political. I even saw a Google Doc on Twitter at some point. As well as a post of Russ supporting the ban and him retweeting a player who was rocking two General Lee inspired Clan Mechs with the Confederate Battle Flag. A PGI dev had to apologize for those incidents.

1. 2021 - Two Comp Teams of the names Trans Rights and Trans Fights had their names removed, and the team leader of one banned. But they were reinstated
2. 2021 - A player was temporarily banned for saying "Trans Rights" in chat during every beginning of the match. The ban was revoked.
3. 2022 - Another player was warned not to say "Trans" because it "broke immersion" (that really happened).

So I don't see the release of the Trans Flag as a political ploy, but to try to make amends for what happened. Even if you look at the Desperada, the colors are of the trans flag, but saturated, even the Bonus Rewards are in the colors of the Trans Flag.

Edited by Will9761, 18 July 2025 - 02:56 PM.

[Meep Meep]

1453 R, on 18 July 2025 - 06:17 AM, said:

~snip~

Not every place is the US or another western nation that is tolerant of differing views and lifestyle choices. You are not going to convince a player from say a strictly islamic following nation to accept it and as that is their culture thats the end of that. You can call them whatever you want but its not going to change anything. Thats the hubris of those that live in western nations that somehow the rest of the world must imitate them on all levels when they have no reason or compulsion to do such things. This is what I mean by sexual orientation has nothing to do with pew pew mechs and when you insert it into a game played globally by people who often wildly disagree on real life issues it cause problems that could have been easily avoided. Shade was tossed at data over his comments but data doesn't live in the US either and afaik his culture isn't nearly as open as other western nations. Why must EVERYONE bend to YOUR views? Seems just a bit pushy yes?

Edited by Meep Meep, 18 July 2025 - 01:44 PM.

[1453 R]

And?

I believe I was 100% clear in saying that I am absolutely admitting that we're being pushy. We have every right to be pushy, when we are being pushed. I DO live in the United States, and here in this country we have a rich history and tradition of telling both the government and the general public to sit and spin when they tell us we have no right to exist. In fact, that tradition is called Pride.

You keep trying to make this point that there's no reason to bring it up, there's no cause for LGBTQ+ people to defend themselves from hateful commentary, and we should all simply swallow our pride (and our Pride), let everyone else say whatever they like, and silently eat the hate because that's easier. That's simpler, it causes less of a scene, and if us LGBTQ+ folks were simply more chill about being pushed out of existence everyone else would get along better.

Nah dawg. Bring on the scene. Your hypothetical strictly Islamic player gets to live their life by their teachings and their code, and I get to live mine by the laws and mores of my nation and my beliefs. They don't get to censure and silence me for being trans any more than I get to censure and silence them for being Muslim, and if they can't handle being in an international space where trans people from the United States exist? Again - that's their problem, not mine.

Existing While Trans is not a punishable offense, nor is it some filthy shameful secret I'm breaching social etiquette by not hiding. Quit acting like it is, because I am perfectly willing to sit here and argue the point until the thread gets locked.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Meep Meep, on 18 July 2025 - 01:34 PM, said:

This is what I mean by sexual orientation has nothing to do with pew pew mechs and when you insert it into a game played globally by people who often wildly disagree on real life issues it cause problems that could have been easily avoided.

Just because it causes problems doesn't mean anything. Most art is political in nature, I don't really hear people telling Warhammer 40K to keep the politics out of it, even if a certain faction is meant to represent a pretty horrific group from history. A common refrain lately "especially" in the US is "keep politics out of it" but if we remove it from everything (typically when referring to entertainment), where is a place for it exactly? Hell, most big comic books wouldn't have existed if that were true given how most started (superman being the most topical as of late). No one tells punk to stop being "political"

Don't like it, well no one is forcing you to deal with it or shoving it down your throat contrary to belief. No, the real problem is the existence of it upsets them which is different than it being tantamount to propaganda and that's a bit of a tell in 99% of these cases of the root of the problem. This kind of reminds me of the pronoun "uproar" for battletech. The very fact that was an option "upset" people even though you can play like you would anyway without the dreaded pronouns people dislike.

There's also the argument that being apolitical is still being political, just capitulation to the current majority, a stance that typically afforded to only those of privilege.

Edited by Quicksilver Aberration, 18 July 2025 - 03:02 PM.

[Meep Meep]

Don't shoot the messenger. I don't care who you sleep with or how you identify. Just saying that there are large portions of the worlds populations that absolutely DO care who you sleep with and how you identify and they are not going to change because you are being pushy. US culture has nothing to do with global culture and this is a global game not a US game.

This is what I mean by the hubris of those that live in the west. This is a great example. A group of western activists traveled to Egypt to cross over into Gaza to protest in Gaza about what they personally believe.

This was the result.



Those western activists thought that EVERYONE shared their beliefs and found out that the Egyptians absolutely do not share them and in fact wildly oppose them so they were attacked by the Egyptians and expelled from the nation.

Those western activists are you.

[1453 R]

No, Meep. No they are not. Because those people went overseas, inserted themselves into someone else's private space, and started shouting stuff.

This is a public forum. An international public space. Everyone gets to live and act according to their beliefs and ideals in a place like this.

if you cannot understand the difference between "You must accept, agree with, and like me" and "you cannot discriminate against me", that is also a "You" problem. Not a 'Me' problem. I have never called for the aggressive conversion nonsense you're pushing. I am not screaming at people that they have to love and cherish LGBTQ+ folks. You can disagree with us all you like. You can think we're weird and not want to associate with us in your free time, and frankly I will be thrilled to return the favor.

But you do not get to mistreat us or discriminate against us.

We exist. Deal with it.

That. Is. Pride.

[Meep Meep]

1453 R, on 18 July 2025 - 03:38 PM, said:

This is a public forum. An international public space. Everyone gets to live and act according to their beliefs and ideals in a place like this.

So you have no issues then with people who oppose your views here then? Because I 100% guarantee that a portion of those playing this game do not agree and never will. Go to a mosque in a western nation and walk in with full pride regalia and demand they accept you and be pushy about it. I'd love to see the outcome.

[1453 R]

You treat having religion like some sort of carte blanche excuse to be absolutely horrible to other people who don't follow your religion, all while breaking ToS and dredging up contentious real-world politics and humanitarian crises.

Stop invoking religion as some sort of invincible excuse to be an absolute monster to other folks. In fact, how 'bout you stop invoking religion entirely, ne? Stop using other people's spiritual beliefs as a cudgel to try and bludgeon LGBTQ+ people into silence with.

Edited by 1453 R, 18 July 2025 - 04:05 PM.