213 replies to this topic

[Meep Meep]

1453 R, on 18 July 2025 - 03:58 PM, said:

You treat having religion like some sort of carte blanche excuse to be absolutely horrible to other people who don't follow your religion, all while breaking ToS and dredging up contentious real-world politics and humanitarian crises.

Stop invoking religion as some sort of invincible excuse to be an absolute monster to other folks. In fact, how 'bout you stop invoking religion entirely, ne? Stop using other people's spiritual beliefs as a cudgel to try and bludgeon LGBTQ+ people into silence with.

Umm who is trying to silence you here? Pointing out that legitimate cultural groups don't agree or accept your personal views and have every right to do so isn't silencing you? No one here has even hinted that the pride stuff be removed. So. Would you be opposed to say a Christian mech pack with biblical camo or say a DudeBro pack with lots of straight jock memes be acceptable? How about a Black culture mech pack? If Pride gets their own stuff why not other groups? Legitimate question.

Edited by Meep Meep, 18 July 2025 - 04:08 PM.

[TheMadTypist]

It might be a small thing, but on Steam, in the activity/newsfeed, the last post on MWO is from May of 2024. perhaps giving some news about the ongoing patches or events or the sale of the Shadowhawk IIC might help folks there understand the game is still being supported.

And while we might be past the time for new features in this game, perhaps the discussion of identity and its importance to the Mechwarrior communities may indicate that the next Mechwarrior game would benefit from pilot customization. Like selecting a body, face, color, hairsyle, beard etc. In a singleplayer game, you can say, "That's my goober in the cutscene", and in a multiplayer title, you can sell people outfits or victory poses for the final scoreboard. Given how steep the learning curve can be, it could be a way to get people invested with a sense of ownership of the character from the outset, get them willing to learn.

[Meep Meep]

For sure the steam forums have more general reach than here. I still think that Russ secretly wants the game to die.

[1453 R]

Meep Meep, on 18 July 2025 - 04:07 PM, said:

Umm who is trying to silence you here?

Meep Meep, on 17 July 2025 - 06:40 PM, said:

...
I don't think such real life social stances should be in a game everyone from around the world plays some of whom wildly disagree with pride stuff on religious and social grounds.
...

Practically the first thing you said was "this stuff doesn't belong in MWO." Don't go gaslighting now.

As for this?

Meep Meep, on 18 July 2025 - 04:07 PM, said:

Would you be opposed to say a Christian mech pack with biblical camo

The "Crusader" default camo pattern available in the game hits a Biblical-esque line, and the very first set of Loyalty 'Mechs have stark white hulls with cathedral angel paint schemes. Argent is also vaguely biblical-esque, though it is admittedly more a ComStar 'Mech than a Christian 'Mech. Nevertheless, the symbology is there, and while I personally hold very dim opinions of the Christian religion? I have no issue with a pack celebrating the things people love about it, no. A pack denigrating the things Christians hate is a no-go, but that is the case for every possible 'Mech pack. Hold up, don't stomp down.

Meep Meep, on 18 July 2025 - 04:07 PM, said:

or say a DudeBro pack with lots of straight jock memes be acceptable?

Have you seen the Sigma pack? Literally the Chad Face guy, if legally distinct, not to mention the whole "Sigma Male" business. It's silly, and the 'Mech is otherwise more an homage to the MW4 Mad Doge than a Dudebro machine, but it's still there.

Meep Meep, on 18 July 2025 - 04:07 PM, said:

How about a Black culture mech pack?

Don't know enough about black culture to know if we already have it, the way we have Biblical 'Mechs and Jock 'Mechs, but I wouldn't be surprised.

Meep Meep, on 18 July 2025 - 04:07 PM, said:

If Pride gets their own stuff why not other groups? Legitimate question.

Ignoring the dismissive rebuke inherent in your words, there...I don't see a reason why packs and decals and other things that celebrate laudable things cannot be considered. One of my favorite memories of this game is the Sarah's Jenner fundraiser. More such things would be splendid, even if I know what you're actually asking for.

But no. Celebrating positive differences is never a bad thing. Would that more people could understand that.

[LordNothing]

Meep Meep, on 18 July 2025 - 04:13 PM, said:

For sure the steam forums have more general reach than here. I still think that Russ secretly wants the game to die.

why? its pretty much a passive source of income at this point. paying the server costs and barely funding the skeleton crew that remains to keep selling mech packs with balance handled for free by the cauldron. it doesnt cost him anything to keep the game up, until it does, and that's when mwo dies.

[KursedVixen]

1453 R, on 18 July 2025 - 06:13 PM, said:

The "Crusader" default camo pattern available in the game hits a Biblical-esque line, and the very first set of Loyalty 'Mechs have stark white hulls with cathedral angel paint schemes. Argent is also vaguely biblical-esque, though it is admittedly more a ComStar 'Mech than a Christian 'Mech. Nevertheless, the symbology is there, and while I personally hold very dim opinions of the Christian religion? I have no issue with a pack celebrating the things people love about it, no. A pack denigrating the things Christians hate is a no-go, but that is the case for every possible 'Mech pack. Hold up, don't stomp down.

Crusader in this instance has nothing biblical about it it's about the faction within the clans who in lore wish to conquer the Inner sphere for themselves to 'save them' from themselves which is oppose to the Warden faction who seek to protect the sphere from external threats...

[Davegt27]

ok looks like we went off the rails

any more ideas to keep and now to kill MWO ?

[SolCrusher]

It's simple, the devs need to feed this code into an AI model and have it go through and optimize the code. Feed everything in there. I'm sure the AI could render the maps better and give us better hitboxes on the maps and the mech models.

AI is the future, jam this code into it and see if AI can do some "Junior Programmer" stuff. I'm sure it can with ease.

We've been using AI to refine code or figure out what the heck some of the old code is doing that I deal with all the time.

[LordNothing]

Meep Meep, on 18 July 2025 - 04:07 PM, said:

Umm who is trying to silence you here? Pointing out that legitimate cultural groups don't agree or accept your personal views and have every right to do so isn't silencing you? No one here has even hinted that the pride stuff be removed. So. Would you be opposed to say a Christian mech pack with biblical camo or say a DudeBro pack with lots of straight jock memes be acceptable? How about a Black culture mech pack? If Pride gets their own stuff why not other groups? Legitimate question.

aksum, crusader, the crusader camo, various decals and badges. i figure the game gives as much christian representation as trans representation. seems pretty fair to me. so long as it doesn't disturb the war machine aesthetic its fine.

[feeWAIVER]

Wtb MWO2

[LordNothing]

SolCrusher, on 18 July 2025 - 06:42 PM, said:

It's simple, the devs need to feed this code into an AI model and have it go through and optimize the code. Feed everything in there. I'm sure the AI could render the maps better and give us better hitboxes on the maps and the mech models.

AI is the future, jam this code into it and see if AI can do some "Junior Programmer" stuff. I'm sure it can with ease.

We've been using AI to refine code or figure out what the heck some of the old code is doing that I deal with all the time.

i dont think its as simple as you think. the compute requirements alone could put the game in the red. the results could be buggy and potentially break things.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

SolCrusher, on 18 July 2025 - 06:42 PM, said:

It's simple, the devs need to feed this code into an AI model and have it go through and optimize the code. Feed everything in there. I'm sure the AI could render the maps better and give us better hitboxes on the maps and the mech models.

AI is the future, jam this code into it and see if AI can do some "Junior Programmer" stuff. I'm sure it can with ease.

We've been using AI to refine code or figure out what the heck some of the old code is doing that I deal with all the time.

I'm really hoping this isn't actually serious.....AI's really good at boilerplate stuff, autocomplete, or things with a lot of existing framework usage that people hate working with (web dev pretty much, because we keep just adding layers on top of the awful that HTML/CSS is) and that's about it. You definitely don't blindly trust it either.

Edited by Quicksilver Aberration, 18 July 2025 - 07:59 PM.

[Meep Meep]

1453 R, on 18 July 2025 - 06:13 PM, said:

Practically the first thing you said was "this stuff doesn't belong in MWO." Don't go gaslighting now.

As for this?

It doesn't. This is a game marketed to 13 and up. Sexual orientation discussions or highlights shouldn't be in this game as its not proper content for minors. I feel the same about any out of battletech lore content. There shouldn't have been a ukraine event no matter how you feel about the war one way or another as it took sides over a very divided issue. National holidays of any type IF highlighted via game content should be in their respective forums unless its a globally accepted one. There should be no real life social, cultural, political, ideological content because its going to piss ~someone~ off. Zero. Nada. Zilch. This has nothing to do with silencing anything it has to do with respecting ~everyones~ beliefs. There is plenty of drama and controversy within the bt universe so how about we stick to the comstar hoarding lostech conspiracies and how capellans are smelly and look funny.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Meep Meep, on 18 July 2025 - 08:08 PM, said:

There should be no real life social, cultural, political, ideological content because its going to piss ~someone~ off. Zero. Nada. Zilch.

So no universe? Dracs are clearly meant to be a caricature of the Japanese, Capellans the Chinese, Lyrans as your Nordics and maybe Germanic (keeping in mind this was made in the 80s so these originally were.....pretty sus caricatures no less)? I mean sorry, but this is such a stupid comment to make because there are clear tie-ins to real life in pretty much every IP universe built.

Edited by Quicksilver Aberration, 18 July 2025 - 08:26 PM.

[Meep Meep]

Quicksilver Aberration, on 18 July 2025 - 08:25 PM, said:

So no universe? Dracs are clearly meant to be a caricature of the Japanese, Capellans the Chinese, Lyrans as your Nordics and maybe Germanic (keeping in mind this was made in the 80s so these originally were.....pretty sus caricatures no less)? I mean sorry, but this is such a stupid comment to make because there are clear tie-ins to real life in pretty much every IP universe built.

The bt universe is a future abstract of human global society and has no connection to ~current~ real life social, cultural, political, ideological issues.

In the 80's there was no pride movement. That manifested in the early 2000's. Also why is it so important to the pride community that everyone talk and accept their sexual orientations like its supposed to be common conversation? Being gay means one thing and one thing only. You prefer to have sex with the same sex. Being trans means one thing and one thing only. You believe you are the opposite sex to what you were born as. What in the blazes does any of this have to do with ~public~ discourse or mwo? If you are gay go find a partner and do the nasty in private like everyone else that does the nasty. If you are trans then dress and act like you are the sex you want to be and no one will bat an eye. It's when the pride community is ~pushy~ about it is where the friction starts. Do pride group members want to be lectured on the joys of being hetero? No? Then why do they think hetero's want to be lectured by the pride group? It all just seems to me to be a huge grab for attention. I've known plenty of gay people in my life and all of them were perfectly normal and you would never guess they had sex with the same sex because it wasn't polite public convo just like bragging about the hot chick you scored on at the bar last night isn't polite public convo. Same with trans. No one is going to have a clue unless they make a fuss over it. Be gay be trans be an attack helicopter if that is your wish as an independent free thinking adult but that is ~your~ choice and no one elses.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Meep Meep, on 18 July 2025 - 08:40 PM, said:

The bt universe is a future abstract of human global society and has no connection to ~current~ real life social, cultural, political, ideological issues.

Yeaaaaaah, sure it has zero connection with the times or totally isn't an obvious product of its time or hasn't adapted to the times at all, ever

Edited by Quicksilver Aberration, 18 July 2025 - 08:44 PM.

[Meep Meep]

Quicksilver Aberration, on 18 July 2025 - 08:43 PM, said:

Yeaaaaaah, sure it has zero connection with the times or totally isn't an obvious product of its time or hasn't adapted to the times at all, ever

So what does sexual orientation have to do with the bt universe then? Was there a lore faction of IS or Clan that were gay or trans? If not then why would it be inserted now and for what reason? Adding in new social or cultural content to an existing ip has to make sense right? What is the entry vector into mwo for the pride movement?

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Meep Meep, on 18 July 2025 - 08:47 PM, said:

If not then why would it be inserted now and for what reason?

Yes, because every IP is static and has never changed over decades ever to adapt to the culture of the times. Mickey is still running around doing black face and Superman is beating the daylights out of not aliens but scum land lords, CEOs, etc. It doesn't take even that much research to learn about how IPs have drastically changed over time, especially long lived ones like comic book superheroes whom many were created during the early 1900s and have to adapt pretty substantially over the years, especially during the McCarthy era.

Edited by Quicksilver Aberration, 18 July 2025 - 08:53 PM.

[Meep Meep]

Quicksilver Aberration, on 18 July 2025 - 08:51 PM, said:

Yes, because every IP is static and has never changed over decades ever to adapt to the culture of the times. Mickey is still running around doing black face and Superman is beating the daylights out of not aliens but scum land lords, CEOs, etc. It doesn't take even that much research to learn about how IPs have drastically changed over time, especially long lived ones like comic book superheroes whom many were created during the early 1900s and have to adapt pretty substantially over the years, especially during the McCarthy era.

So explain exactly why the pride groups get inserted into mwo and what is the entry vector. What is the lore explanation for it? Just because ip morph over the years doesn't mean it happens willy nilly on a whim? What does adding pride elements to mwo do to improve mwo and the bt experience? If pride gets representation then shouldn't everyone's personal ideology and culture be represented? This would be fair yes? Again I have no issues with the pride groups existence in real life. More power to them and I wish them well.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Meep Meep, on 18 July 2025 - 08:59 PM, said:

Just because ip morph over the years doesn't mean it happens willy nilly on a whim?

Says who? You think this hasn't ever happened? Really?

Meep Meep, on 18 July 2025 - 08:59 PM, said:

If pride gets representation then shouldn't everyone's personal ideology and culture be represented?

Ultimately it's up to the creators what they represent and want to represent including the limitations of those creators (kinda hard to present a minority viewpoint if you are not of that minority after all). While the hope is that for big IPs they want to have characters that people from a variety of walks of life can identify with, there's obvious limitations that can definitely feed into an echo chamber if your not careful of who you have creating content for that universe, however it's also pretty important to understand not every person ideology's are equal (we are pretty much in philosophical debate territory here but regardless).

Not all art/content is meant to be consumed for others who don't come from the same background and that's totally okay (I'm not saying this is the case for this to be clear), and there's definitely been drama surrounding Battletech itself over this very topic and I believe Pardoe, but I'd argue Battletech's current ownership seems to be supportive of this sort of pride content so I don't know what to tell you.

However the point is, saying an IP or any art (which IPs are apart of) should be devoid of potentially including reference to cultures/politics/etc is still a hilariously bad take given none of it has ever been free of it for basically the entirety of humanity's history.

Edited by Quicksilver Aberration, 18 July 2025 - 09:15 PM.