213 replies to this topic

[Meep Meep]

Quicksilver Aberration, on 18 July 2025 - 09:14 PM, said:

Says who? You think this hasn't ever happened? Really?


Ultimately it's up to the creators what they represent and want to represent including the limitations of those creators (kinda hard to present a minority viewpoint if you are not of that minority after all). While the hope is that for big IPs they want to have characters that people from a variety of walks of life can identify with, there's obvious limitations that can definitely feed into an echo chamber if your not careful of who you have creating content for that universe, however it's also pretty important to understand not every person ideology's are equal (we are pretty much in philosophical debate territory here but regardless).

Not all art/content is meant to be consumed for others who don't come from the same background and that's totally okay (I'm not saying this is the case for this to be clear), and there's definitely been drama surrounding Battletech itself over this very topic and I believe Pardoe, but I'd argue Battletech's current ownership seems to be supportive of this sort of pride content so I don't know what to tell you.

However the point is, saying an IP or any art (which IPs are apart of) should be devoid of potentially including reference to cultures/politics/etc is still a hilariously bad take given none of it has ever been free of it for basically the entirety of humanity's history.

Ok. But. WHY should it be included and WHAT is its entry vector. You are not answering the basic question. Was there a dimensional shift and suddenly a portion of the bt universe population go gay and trans? An undiscovered fringe world(s) were it was common practice outside of the general IS/Clan cultures etc? If you were required to make a story outline to insert pride ideology what would be the pitch? It can't be 'just because'.

Edited by Meep Meep, 18 July 2025 - 09:24 PM.

[feeWAIVER]

It would be cool to have chemical lasers release and do a whole chemical castration theme around it.

Ya know, so people will feel like they belong, and they are seen, etc.

[Ilfi]

Can I get uhh... a Corsair with HSL quirks for 5 RAC/2s all in the torso? A little BRRT never hurt nobody.

I am willing to pay 15 buckaroos for this idea once implemented.

[a 5 year old with an Uzi]

feeWAIVER, on 18 July 2025 - 11:00 PM, said:

It would be cool to have chemical lasers release and do a whole chemical castration theme around it.

Ya know, so people will feel like they belong, and they are seen, etc.

I suppose you feel left out after you got put on that list huh

[1453 R]

Meep Meep, on 18 July 2025 - 09:23 PM, said:

...
If you were required to make a story outline to insert pride ideology what would be the pitch? It can't be 'just because'.

Ignoring the deeply transmisiac undertones of the rest of that...why not?

Why can't it be "just because"?

Why do LGBTQ+ people need an extra special reason to exist within the fiction? Why can't they just, y'know...exist. Because they do.

We're not some mutant, radioactive aberration that needs a long-winded backstory to explain. We exist.

Nor is any of this relevant to Pride. As Quicksilver has said, trying to sever all ties with reality so as to avoid offending a single soul is a pointless fool's errand. BattleTech is fundamentally dirty, messy and offendable - you've got insane honor-before-everything weeaboo pseudosamurai, craven cowardly Yeller People whose entire identity is being sneaky backstabbing jerks, a whole Successor State of Hans, Frans, Jans, und Schmidtt too dumb to know everyone else is making fun of them, whatever the bleedin' 'ells is going on with the Free Worlds League, and a nation that spent twenty IRL years and most of a century in-'verse being the written embodiment of 'MURICA F*** YEAH. Not to mention the warmongering cult weirdoes from Beyond The Stars and their various forms of jihadi nonsense. Either you're all in on the schlock and able to laugh at the stereotypes or this ain't the IP for you.

[KursedVixen]

Meep Meep, on 18 July 2025 - 09:23 PM, said:

Ok. But. WHY should it be included and WHAT is its entry vector. You are not answering the basic question. Was there a dimensional shift and suddenly a portion of the bt universe population go gay and trans? An undiscovered fringe world(s) were it was common practice outside of the general IS/Clan cultures etc? If you were required to make a story outline to insert pride ideology what would be the pitch? It can't be 'just because'.

And of all things why is it free while you have to spend money to get your country flag as a cockpit
item??? We can't even put in lore faction logos on mechs without paying real money or spending the currency that cost real money....

Edited by KursedVixen, 19 July 2025 - 08:39 AM.

[Will9761]

I could think of somethings PGI could do but won't.

Rivalry Month Event
Rule - Kill a Player who is a rival of your faction. Example, A Kurita Player must hunt down Davion players for rewards.
Rewards: 5 Kills - A Faction Decals, 10 Kills - A Free Faction Pattern of For Your Mech of Choice, 15 - Enemy "Salvage" Reward: A Mech of your choice based on your rival's faction.

Faction Starter Packs
Have certain faction based Mechs with hardlocked faction skins with faction letters and cockpit items.
Example: Kurita Starter Pack
Mechs: Jenner (K), Panther (K),Dragon (K), Hatamoto Chi (K)
Cockpit Items: Kurita Medallion, Kurita Warhorn, Hatamoto Walking Item

FP Events Based on lore or other historic planets:
I remember how at one point back in CW there was a Battle of Tukkayid event. It would be nice if we could reach out to the devs to do week long events like the Battle of Hesperus II or the Battle of Conventry. Or fun events like the retaking of Kentares IV for House Kurita. Sure, we are not going to go back to the ways of CW of taking multiple planets, but it would be nice to have some meaningful events that actually make factions mean something instead of a glorified forum icons.

IS Brigade and Clan Galaxy Decals
I wish we could still get more IS and Clan based decals. Despite being a low priority, there are still people who would pay good money for those decals. I mean look at the Grand Summoner, they have the Vau Galaxy decal for the mech and we know that PGI will only add decals if they are making a mechpack. Also the Galaxy Mech Pack was a missed opportunity for Clan Galaxy Decals, I hope if another round of Clan Galaxy Packs make it, the devs will add Galaxy decals to go with them. Also I wouldn't mind seeing the IS get that love with IS Brigade Packs.

But, so far the only thing they can do so far is mechpacks, so what I'm proposing is just wishful thinking.

[Duke Falcon]

< Da troll arrivez >

FP event?

FP event?!

FP event!

< Da troll leftz >

[East Indy]

Will9761, on 19 July 2025 - 09:35 AM, said:

I could think of somethings PGI could do but won't.

These are all great ideas that fit perfectly with BattleTech's WWF-like politics.

Seems like on one hand, PGI has just always been a step behind, but too—overestimated how much players actually demand faction identity and self-expression.

Quickplay would've been much cooler with frequent locked factions and uniform paint schemes for reenactment fun and world immersion, instead of everybody to this day flying a random flag and camo'd in their own Skittles color.

[a 5 year old with an Uzi]

East Indy, on 19 July 2025 - 10:08 AM, said:

These are all great ideas that fit perfectly with BattleTech's WWF-like politics.

Seems like on one hand, PGI has just always been a step behind, but too—overestimated how much players actually demand faction identity and self-expression.

Quickplay would've been much cooler with frequent locked factions and uniform paint schemes for reenactment fun and world immersion, instead of everybody to this day flying a random flag and camo'd in their own Skittles color.

Faction camos and paints are pretty spendy and tbh some faction camos look pretty uninspired on some mechs

As it is the base faction camos are largely generic and as near as I can tell line up extremely loosely at best with established in-universe units

If we're going to go as far as to indulge in vanity with paints and decals (or appeal to the miniature-painters, expressive artists who just like doing cool paint jobs etc if you want to be proper charitable about motives instead of whinging that people insist on having fun decorating robots) telling people to lock to unit paints works better when they're actually unit paints and having a good assortment for participation purposes wouldn't fail cost benefit analysis

the recent Clan Galaxies pack was actually a pretty cool idea tbh

Edited by a 5 year old with an Uzi, 19 July 2025 - 10:28 AM.

[Ttly]

Here's an idea, nerf cXL so that you blow up when you lose an ST, but get this, all clan mechs actually gets durability, quirks, and agility that are actually closer to their IS equivalent. Maybe give them access to Light Engine if people whine hard enough about not being able to overheat with their half alphas while waddling around as slow as they're legged.

Also remove C-AC burst (and nerf their HSL to be the same as IS) because firepower is limited by hardpoint count and them being lighter isn't really that much of a big deal while the burst is. C-UACs can stay the same though, save for maybe C-UAC5/10/20 getting slight jam% buff since their longer burst is already enough downside.

Edited by Ttly, 19 July 2025 - 11:05 AM.

[East Indy]

a 5 year old with an Uzi, on 19 July 2025 - 10:26 AM, said:

Faction camos and paints are pretty spendy

Let me try to make it simple:

• A few times a week, Quickplay or the equivalent in a future MW game is themed
  
• Pick a timeframe, pick interesting campaigns on nifty planets
  
• Players can choose from a large list of chassis or get bonuses from faction favs
  
• Teams are automatically skinned in faction unit colors
  
• Sources come from the bazillion units available, and players learn cool lore ("Awesome, 2nd Galedon Regulars")
  
• Too many people will be having fun lowkey RPing a faction to care about a fictional patch of color
  
• To clarify, if players are still loading a generic lobby deathmatch 13 years later, they won't turn down theme night

Mindbending irony that the risk of pedantic complaints about lore would prevent PGI from introducing lore into a lore-driven franchise. Hilarious, if sad.

[a 5 year old with an Uzi]

East Indy, on 19 July 2025 - 10:59 AM, said:

Let me try to make it simple:

• A few times a week, Quickplay or the equivalent in a future MW game is themed
  
• Pick a timeframe, pick interesting campaigns on nifty planets
  
• Players can choose from a large list of chassis or get bonuses from faction favs
  
• Teams are automatically skinned in faction unit colors
  
• Sources come from the bazillion units available, and players learn cool lore (&quot;Awesome, 2nd Galedon Regulars&quot;)
  
• Too many people will be having fun lowkey RPing a faction to care about a fictional patch of color
  
• To clarify, if players are still loading a generic lobby deathmatch 13 years later, they won't turn down theme night

Mindbending irony that the risk of pedantic complaints about lore would prevent PGI from introducing lore into a lore-driven franchise. Hilarious, if sad.

I mean you were the one who complained about people painting mechs "in their own Skittles color" and made no effort to actually elaborate upon how the uniform faction camoing would work

Edited by a 5 year old with an Uzi, 19 July 2025 - 11:42 AM.

[MechMaster059]

Though the "pride" discussion going on in here is doing a good job of keeping this thread going, it's totally irrelevant to the discussion of how to keep the game alive.

I can sum up the future trajectory of MWO in 2 words: X-Pulse Lasers

X-Pulse Lasers are an ominous indicator of the attitude the developers have towards the game. They're a dead weapon. I can count on both hands the number of times I've EVER seen players equip Small X-Pulse Lasers. Medium X-Pulse lasers are very rare to see. Only Large X-Pulse lasers can be seen every once in a while and they're usually mounted by bad players that don't know how to build a mech.

How about the Advanced Sensor Package? It used to be an utterly worthless 3 ton piece of junk. Now it's merely a mostly useless 1.5 ton piece of junk. I've never equipped an ASP on a mech.

This is what kills games over time, a build-up of junk and bad mechanics that cause players to grow bored and move on to newer and better things that arrive to market as the years pass by. Staving off the decay of time requires a vigorous dev team willing to address problems in a timely manner. When problems aren't fixed, it indicates neglect and decay begins to set in.

Adding new weapons (HAG, X-Pulse, Thunderbolt Missiles, etc...) was a great shot in the arm the game needed but the effect is beginning to wear off. It's not just that bad mechanics piss players off, it's that those things don't create memorable moments or inspire players to continue playing. They become a lack of a positive, a hole in the game.

=====

An example of a game destroyed by bad mechanics is Heroes of Newerth.

The devs maintaining Heroes of Newerth introduced a change to add a 2nd Kongor to the map, one for each side. I was initially open minded to this change to see how it played and soon discovered it was a bad change that encouraged snow-balling, something that is already a serious problem in MOBAs. Many people on the Newerth forums complained about the change, but rather than undoing it, the forum mods began banning people. The game is now dead.

=====

Things off the top of my head that need to be fixed:

- X-Pulse Lasers need a total rework.
Admit and accept that their current implementation is bad. Tweaks to their numbers won't be enough. But they can't admit X-Pulse Lasers are bad can they... this stubborn attitude kills games. I wonder who they think they're fooling by pretending X-Pulse Lasers are good weapons?

- TAGs need to lower lock-on time.
Not a big deal for balance, TAGs are still useable, but from a game design perspective, TAGs offering NO BENEFIT AT ALL vs mechs w/o ECM/Stealth is VERY BAD. Such a change would be especially helpful for Streaks which became barely useable weapons after the latest buff. (Inner Sphere Streaks still suck and are bad but Clan Streaks are decent now.)

- LRM velocity needs to be increased.
Up to 175m/s minimum or preferably back up to 190m/s. Inner Sphere LRMs are a badly sub-par weapon made nearly obsolete by Thunderbolts which are much better missile weapons.

- Advanced Sensor Package needs something more.
I don't have an answer here. I think it would be cool if it functioned like a TAG as well marking the selected target as being TAGed but such a buff would require a weight increase to balance it.

- Beam Lasers need their own weapon group.
The main purpose of ghost heat is to reduce alpha damage. Continuous fire weapons have no alpha. That's why RACs have their own weapon group. Beam Lasers are a weapon that you're now seeing less and less of in game due to the novelty wearing off. They're too cumbersome to combine with other large laser weapons forcing players to either fully commit to them in a build or abandon them altogether despite being a very well balanced weapon.

- Rockets suck and are purely a goofball weapon for that one Javelin build.
LordNothing had an excellent suggestion long ago that instead of firing all at once, they fire rapidly in sequence, like a modern rocket pod mounted on an attack helicopter does. This is a great idea that would prevent them from being the fun-ruining, one-shot weapon they currently are, and allow them to be buffed in other ways. (Very high velocity, low spread, possibly even a slight damage buff up to 2.25 dmg per missile)


Some people reading these suggestions may think I'm nibbling at the edges but you're sorely mistaken if you think that. These holes accumulate and no longer infuse life into the game.

[KursedVixen]

MechMaster059, on 19 July 2025 - 12:29 PM, said:

Though the "pride" discussion going on in here is doing a good job of keeping this thread going, it's totally irrelevant to the discussion of how to keep the game alive.

I can sum up the future trajectory of MWO in 2 words: X-Pulse Lasers

X-Pulse Lasers are an ominous indicator of the attitude the developers have towards the game. They're a dead weapon. I can count on both hands the number of times I've EVER seen players equip Small X-Pulse Lasers. Medium X-Pulse lasers are very rare to see. Only Large X-Pulse lasers can be seen every once in a while and they're usually mounted by bad players that don't know how to build a mech.

How about the Advanced Sensor Package? It used to be an utterly worthless 3 ton piece of junk. Now it's merely a mostly useless 1.5 ton piece of junk. I've never equipped an ASP on a mech.

This is what kills games over time, a build-up of junk and bad mechanics that cause players to grow bored and move on to newer and better things that arrive to market as the years pass by. Staving off the decay of time requires a vigorous dev team willing to address problems in a timely manner. When problems aren't fixed, it indicates neglect and decay begins to set in.

Adding new weapons (HAG, X-Pulse, Thunderbolt Missiles, etc...) was a great shot in the arm the game needed but the effect is beginning to wear off. It's not just that bad mechanics piss players off, it's that those things don't create memorable moments or inspire players to continue playing. They become a lack of a positive, a hole in the game.

=====

An example of a game destroyed by bad mechanics is Heroes of Newerth.

The devs maintaining Heroes of Newerth introduced a change to add a 2nd Kongor to the map, one for each side. I was initially open minded to this change to see how it played and soon discovered it was a bad change that encouraged snow-balling, something that is already a serious problem in MOBAs. Many people on the Newerth forums complained about the change, but rather than undoing it, the forum mods began banning people. The game is now dead.

=====

Things off the top of my head that need to be fixed:

- X-Pulse Lasers need a total rework.
Admit and accept that their current implementation is bad. Tweaks to their numbers won't be enough. But they can't admit X-Pulse Lasers are bad can they... this stubborn attitude kills games. I wonder who they think they're fooling by pretending X-Pulse Lasers are good weapons?

- TAGs need to lower lock-on time.
Not a big deal for balance, TAGs are still useable, but from a game design perspective, TAGs offering NO BENEFIT AT ALL vs mechs w/o ECM/Stealth is VERY BAD. Such a change would be especially helpful for Streaks which became barely useable weapons after the latest buff. (Inner Sphere Streaks still suck and are bad but Clan Streaks are decent now.)

- LRM velocity needs to be increased.
Up to 175m/s minimum or preferably back up to 190m/s. Inner Sphere LRMs are a badly sub-par weapon made nearly obsolete by Thunderbolts which are much better missile weapons.

- Advanced Sensor Package needs something more.
I don't have an answer here. I think it would be cool if it functioned like a TAG as well marking the selected target as being TAGed but such a buff would require a weight increase to balance it.

- Beam Lasers need their own weapon group.
The main purpose of ghost heat is to reduce alpha damage. Continuous fire weapons have no alpha. That's why RACs have their own weapon group. Beam Lasers are a weapon that you're now seeing less and less of in game due to the novelty wearing off. They're too cumbersome to combine with other large laser weapons forcing players to either fully commit to them in a build or abandon them altogether despite being a very well balanced weapon.

- Rockets suck and are purely a goofball weapon for that one Javelin build.
LordNothing had an excellent suggestion long ago that instead of firing all at once, they fire rapidly in sequence, like a modern rocket pod mounted on an attack helicopter does. This is a great idea that would prevent them from being the fun-ruining, one-shot weapon they currently are, and allow them to be buffed in other ways. (Very high velocity, low spread, possibly even a slight damage buff up to 2.25 dmg per missile)


Some people reading these suggestions may think I'm nibbling at the edges but you're sorely mistaken if you think that. These holes accumulate and no longer infuse life into the game.

can you even mount ASP on any mechs?

Secondly why not give clans the ERPPC that does more damage pinpoint than a ac10? like say 13-14? instead of just 10 plus splash?

On a third note how about making Hyper gauss 20 do 20 damage out to 800 meters then beyond that it splashes? same with the other hyper gauss. is that possible/

Edited by KursedVixen, 19 July 2025 - 02:13 PM.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

East Indy, on 19 July 2025 - 10:59 AM, said:

Let me try to make it simple:

• A few times a week, Quickplay or the equivalent in a future MW game is themed
  
• Pick a timeframe, pick interesting campaigns on nifty planets
  
• Players can choose from a large list of chassis or get bonuses from faction favs
  
• Teams are automatically skinned in faction unit colors
  
• Sources come from the bazillion units available, and players learn cool lore ("Awesome, 2nd Galedon Regulars")
  
• Too many people will be having fun lowkey RPing a faction to care about a fictional patch of color
  
• To clarify, if players are still loading a generic lobby deathmatch 13 years later, they won't turn down theme night

This isn't going to reinvigorate MWO, it's a lot of effort that not everyone will enjoy (limiting mech choice in QP is likely a non-starter) and not everyone really knows or cares about RP/lore. For EQ sure, this makes a lot more sense.

MechMaster059, on 19 July 2025 - 12:29 PM, said:

I can sum up the future trajectory of MWO in 2 words: X-Pulse Lasers.

Then you've already failed because this game has been on a downward trend well before x-pulse were even a twinkle in the cauldron's eye. Mentioning anything about the cauldron means you've already failed because again, the downward trend was already present well before the cauldron because the issues of this game and its lack of growth have little to do with perceived balance and never has.

I've said this in other threads but there are two consistent scapegoats for almost any multiplayer game's lack of success: balance and matchmaker, and they are almost always red herrings.

Edited by Quicksilver Aberration, 19 July 2025 - 01:18 PM.

[MechMaster059]

Quicksilver Aberration, on 19 July 2025 - 01:16 PM, said:

...

I've said this in other threads but there are two consistent scapegoats for almost any multiplayer game's lack of success: balance and matchmaker, and they are almost always red herrings.

I had a feeling you'd be one of the first to reply. You can always count on QA to dump on any positive suggestions to the game.

Balance is a "red herring" for a game's downfall? What is the Lurmageddon people speak of on this forum then? It's been said Lurmageddon caused a sudden drop in player count and that PGI never wants that to happen again. Fear of a drop in player count was speculated by several forum/player veterans as a reason why Thunderbolts and Plasma Canons were initially introduced to the game in a weakened state so they could avoid the mistake they made with how badly HAGs were OP when initially introduced.

As usual, QA's proclamations are easily disproven.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

MechMaster059, on 19 July 2025 - 02:06 PM, said:

Balance is a "red herring" for a game's downfall? What is the Lurmageddon people speak of on this forum then?

There's a reason I qualified with "mostly". There've definitely been brief glimpses of just outright broken weapons but they've been what, maybe 5% at most of the time where balance has actually contributed to problems, and once they were fixed the population went back to normal because these are rarely long term damaging things as long as they are fixed pretty fast.

Again, by the time the cauldron took over the player base had already gone down to half of what it was at steam launch with the maintenance era being the worst of times. Maintenance era lacking any content or serious changes clearly showed what can hurt a game but the stream of content was still only slowing the bleeding, not growing.

Edited by Quicksilver Aberration, 19 July 2025 - 02:17 PM.

[LordNothing]

if were being honest, all new weapons do is get us in the game for a few days after the patch. new mechs are much the same. i think the only reason i still play is pokemechs. when im done with that there isnt much left to do. maybe mothball all but the top 10% of my mechs and make a go at t1. that might be worth another 50 games, then what?

now thats not to say you shouldnt add new weapons, anything that gets people in game is good. events, mechs, weapons, etc. im gonna play banes on patch day most likely. but if you are not constantly adding stuff to the game, people are going to find other things to do.

Edited by LordNothing, 19 July 2025 - 02:22 PM.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

LordNothing, on 19 July 2025 - 02:20 PM, said:

now thats not to say you shouldnt add new weapons, anything that gets people in game is good. events, mechs, weapons, etc. im gonna play banes on patch day most likely.

I think this is what keeps people around these days for better or worse and it's certainly better than a year or two with basically nothing in patches.

Edited by Quicksilver Aberration, 19 July 2025 - 02:24 PM.