213 replies to this topic

[MechMaster059]

Quicksilver Aberration, on 20 July 2025 - 07:00 PM, said:

Half of your "simple" solutions can't be done without engineering time (ASP, TAG), one of which was already investigated (rockets).

OK? What's you're point? Are you saying they have no available engineering time? They're constructing a whole new model for the Shadow Hawk IIC which I would guess takes a HELL OF A LOT more "engineering time" than anything I'm suggesting. Several of the things I'm suggesting would take a trivial amount of time to implement. (LRM velocity buff, Beam Laser weapon group)

You're making a lame argument here. Moving on...

Quicksilver Aberration, on 20 July 2025 - 07:00 PM, said:

I'm not dodging, I just don't care enough to get in a giant quote war (which is really what you seem to want) because you don't know what you're talking about half the time.

You constantly dodge. Any time I ask you a technical question in any tangent of dicussion we're on you ignore the question. Then you say I "don't know what I'm talking about" despite me obviously knowing exactly what I'm talking about.

When asked to back up various proclamations you've made such as "the monetization model being a foundational issue" with the game, you offer no explanation. All you do is spray useless verbiage into any thread you particpate in and try to shoot down other peoples suggestions.

Quicksilver Aberration, on 20 July 2025 - 07:00 PM, said:

There's constraints that limit what is possible/plausible, just like how this game isn't getting any advertising. They barely advertise MW5 Clans, their flagship product, and you think you are gonna get it for MWO?

They already do events, in the aptly named event queue and the periodic event for loot bags which typically draws in people. Anything special outside of that likely coding effort that isn't going to happen.

I didn't advocate for events or advertising, those were valid suggestions made by other posters. Trying to put words in my mouth again...

So lame going around in circles with you all the time with your constant strawmanning, vague proclamations, and your utter refusal to ever make any fact-based arguments.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

MechMaster059, on 20 July 2025 - 07:33 PM, said:

OK? What's you're point? Are you saying they have no available engineering time? They're constructing a whole new model for the Shadow Hawk IIC which I would guess takes a HELL OF A LOT more "engineering time" than anything I'm suggesting. Several of the things I'm suggesting would take a trivial amount of time to implement. (LRM velocity buff, Beam Laser weapon group)

See, now I know two things:

• You are talking out of your ***
  
• Are arguing for the sake of arguing at this point

The Shadow Hawk IIC, just like the Rhino and Fire Moth before it are new models getting created for the purpose of MW5C, there's an existing set of tools/docs/process for backporting models/textures/animations/etc for mechs from MW5 to MWO. This is fundamentally different than requiring an engineer to make code changes. But you don't care about that, you just want to conflate the two for the sake of arguing which is why I don't care to argue with you and take your arguments at face value.

Keep spamming this thread trying to bait me into continuing this argument but I'm ignoring you from here on out. I'm sure you'll claim victory but you won't win or affect any change, pretty sure Tiyos is specifically avoiding the dumpster fire of a thread at this point.

[MechMaster059]

Quicksilver Aberration, on 20 July 2025 - 07:51 PM, said:

See, now I know two things:

You are talking out of your ***
Are arguing for the sake of arguing at this point

The Shadow Hawk IIC, just like the Rhino and Fire Moth before it are new models getting created for the purpose of MW5C, there's an existing set of tools/docs/process for backporting models/textures/animations/etc for mechs from MW5 to MWO. This is fundamentally different than requiring an engineer to make code changes. But you don't care about that, you just want to conflate the two for the sake of arguing which is why I don't care to argue with you and take your arguments at face value.

Did you forget I work as a developer? Increasing LRM velocity isn't a "code change". There's no logic. It's a flat JSON config file change that could literally be done in less than 10 minutes.
From 160/190a --> 175/210a which even results in a nice even 20% velocity increase for Artemis instead of the current weird 18.75% increase.

They have a steady patching cycle designed to push out continual changes. They've done a hell of a lot more in some patches than what I'm suggesting. It's not the onerous task you're making it out to be.

Quicksilver Aberration, on 20 July 2025 - 07:51 PM, said:

Keep spamming this thread trying to bait me into continuing this argument but I'm ignoring you from here on out. I'm sure you'll claim victory but you won't win or affect any change, pretty sure Tiyos is specifically avoiding the dumpster fire of a thread at this point.

LOL, another signature QA move: When you finally get tired of spewing nothing useful you claim PGI / TiyOs / The Cauldron aren't paying attention and don't care. If that's the case, why do you keep replying so much in the thread?

[1453 R]

MechMaster059, on 20 July 2025 - 08:17 PM, said:

...
LOL, another signature QA move: When you finally get tired of spewing nothing useful you claim PGI / TiyOs / The Cauldron aren't paying attention and don't care. If that's the case, why do you keep replying so much in the thread?

He replies for the same reason I replied to a bunch of increasingly bad-faith ugly bigotry from Meep - letting garbage-spewing bad-faith yaybos get the last word and "win" feels horrible. Everyone reasonable knows better, but it still sucks, and you never know when someone new and less informed will read the hog spew and wonder why no one addressed it.

You (incorrectly) carping on game balance for being The Single And Sole Reason Nobody Plays MWO Anymore and how the Cauldron refuses to bow down to your perfect, enlightened plans for Saving MWO is a different argument than Meep trying to eradicate all LGBTQ+ people from all fiction forever, but both are annoying, frustrating, fundamentally incorrect, and almost as exhausting to deal with as it is infuriating to leave alone.

The NPE and player onboarding in MWO being subpar has little to nothing to do with high-level balance, and frankly NPE/onboarding in this game isn't as terrible as it used to be. Nor are the ways to actually fix it (get rid of lolterribad stock configurations and make most/all 'Mechs playable out of the box, for starters) things anyone would ever condone. We are at the "make the best of a bad situation" stage of MWO's lifespan, and frankly the fact that this game has survived this long is already a miracle. So let's enjoy what we've got as best we can and move on with life, ne?

[MechMaster059]

1453 R, on 20 July 2025 - 08:32 PM, said:

...

You (incorrectly) carping on game balance for being The Single And Sole Reason Nobody Plays MWO Anymore

Nope, never said balance was the sole reason. Strawman argument. My point was them ignoring obvious issues, some of which can easily be fixed, is an ominous sign for the future of the game. The crux of my post, that went over your head, is that apathy towards continual improvement of a game on the part of devs tends to mark the inevitable downfall of a game.

1453 R, on 20 July 2025 - 08:32 PM, said:

and how the Cauldron refuses to bow down to your perfect, enlightened plans for Saving MWO

Bro, I didn't even get into half of the balance changes I would make or other significant balance issues in the game (UACs have major issues (jam duration is still too long), no HAG spread, ECM bubble shutting down TAG, mech deceleration is too slow) because overall balance WASN'T MY POINT. Fixing the hard stuff isn't the issue. The fact they aren't even fixing the easy stuff is the issue.

1453 R, on 20 July 2025 - 08:32 PM, said:

(get rid of lolterribad stock configurations and make most/all 'Mechs playable out of the box, for starters)

That's a good idea and something I've wondered about myself sometimes. I suppose they may be afraid if the stock builds aren't bad, potentially new players may never leave the free trial mech phase.

1453 R, on 20 July 2025 - 08:32 PM, said:

We are at the "make the best of a bad situation" stage of MWO's lifespan, and frankly the fact that this game has survived this long is already a miracle. So let's enjoy what we've got as best we can and move on with life, ne?

No, I'm not going to just give up like you. Especially when I know how significant an impact my suggestions would have for relatively little work.

[Lollerisms]

Meep Meep, on 20 July 2025 - 05:18 PM, said:

Bigotry? Where? I have stated multiple times I don't give a flying **** how you identify nor who you sleep with. That is entirely ~your~ personal choice as an adult and you are welcome to choose both orientation and partner as you wish as an adult. As to your examples thats backstory not an ongoing character or something that has any plotline at all. I'm assuming inclusion means direct representation via a character not just that multiple sexual orientations exist in a novel. Also mwo isn't bt. What is the vector to include it in mwo? There is only pew pew mechs with no story at all past the quick intro when you first log into the game and thats purely pew pew oriented. So since you insist pride groups be inserted on every level into a fake reality simply because they exist in real reality can southern baptists also get the same representation in game? Fair is fair right?

1. "Where did I say it?" is literally kid **** that you should have outgrown around the time you started dressing yourself. You and I both know what you were arguing, don't insult your own intelligence.

2. Oh, so we don't care about BT canon anymore? I thought you were all about the canon. Guess it was only important so long as you thought you could use it to argue against the inclusion of pride flags, or up until someone challenged your completely nonexistent knowledge of basic, longstanding lore. Again, the clans have been like this since the start, and you not knowing that is really funny.

As far as a "vector" to include it in MWO, the same justification as there being national flags in the game, which there already are.

3. "since you insist pride groups be inserted on every level into a fake reality" Never said anything even remotely close to this. If you want to argue against straw, do it elsewhere.

4. "Fair is fair right? " No. Gay people don't choose to be gay. Homophobic Christians choose to be homophobic. There are plenty of examples of Christians from all denominations who understand that the Bible does not mandate homophobia and, in fact, speaks at quite some length about tolerance.

[Meep Meep]

1453 R, on 20 July 2025 - 08:32 PM, said:

He replies for the same reason I replied to a bunch of increasingly bad-faith ugly bigotry from Meep - letting garbage-spewing bad-faith yaybos get the last word and "win" feels horrible. Everyone reasonable knows better, but it still sucks, and you never know when someone new and less informed will read the hog spew and wonder why no one addressed it.

What about any of my posts on the subject cast any negativity on pride members? I would assume that if my posts really were bigoted and attacking pride members they would have been deleted and moderation action taken? All I have asked is give an outline to add it in just like any screener for any ip would do? No one who controls an ip adds in stuff 'just because'. I didn't even start the convo I just replied to it. I think I have been exceedingly reasonable so far.

[Lollerisms]

It doesn't need to be added because queer people have existed in BT for decades. Also, because I still think it's funny that you apparently forgot about this, people do in fact have s*x in BT, resulting in minor characters who will never amount to anything like Katrina Steiner.

[Meep Meep]

Lollerisms, on 20 July 2025 - 09:28 PM, said:

1. "Where did I say it?" is literally kid **** that you should have outgrown around the time you started dressing yourself. You and I both know what you were arguing, don't insult your own intelligence.

2. Oh, so we don't care about BT canon anymore? I thought you were all about the canon. Guess it was only important so long as you thought you could use it to argue against the inclusion of pride flags, or up until someone challenged your completely nonexistent knowledge of basic, longstanding lore. Again, the clans have been like this since the start, and you not knowing that is really funny.

As far as a "vector" to include it in MWO, the same justification as there being national flags in the game, which there already are.

3. "since you insist pride groups be inserted on every level into a fake reality" Never said anything even remotely close to this. If you want to argue against straw, do it elsewhere.

4. "Fair is fair right? " No. Gay people don't choose to be gay. Homophobic Christians choose to be homophobic. There are plenty of examples of Christians from all denominations who understand that the Bible does not mandate homophobia and, in fact, speaks at quite some length about tolerance.

Where did this come from?

Ok.

1) Wut?

2) I'm not against the inclusion of pride if everyone else gets a flag too. Currently only pride gets a flag of their own. So since its a biased situation my natural instinct is to say if all can't get representation then none get it. Fairly simple concept yes?

3) Yet that is what is being argued 'just because'?

4) Dude, I am a southern baptist and guess what. Not a one of us gives a flying **** who ~YOU~ personally choose to identify as or have sex with. You can even come to our church and you will be welcomed with open arms as long as you respect ~OUR~ beliefs. Christians as a group DO NOT CARE about YOUR PERSONAL life choices. Thats between you and God and if you don't believe in God then why would you care what they think? I think what has happened is that the media finds some looney tune claiming to be Christian but is actually horrifically intolerant and then conflates that unto all Christians.

So yet again sell the idea that gay and trans should be given their own cutout when no one else is?

[Lollerisms]

"Respect our beliefs"....by? I wanna hear what this means.

[Meep Meep]

Lollerisms, on 20 July 2025 - 09:46 PM, said:

"Respect our beliefs"....by? I wanna hear what this means.

As in if you come to our church don't walk in and start berating us over ~your~ beliefs. Sit down listen to the sermon quietly like everyone else then try to make some friends after the service and see if there are any shared beliefs? You might be surprised as just how much in common everyone has no matter who they sleep with? This is what I meant about being pushy earlier. Pride members seem to wade into every debate with a massive chip on their shoulder and attack relentlessly over even the most common benign discussions because they think it means they shouldn't exist in real life and should just disappear because someone asked 'why'.

[Lollerisms]

Ok, so since this obviously doesn't concern your church there's no issue of "respecting your beliefs," right? There's no big flashing "SOUTHERN BAPTISTS UNWELCOME" sign anywhere, so pride stuff is at best orthogonal because we're nowhere near a sermon.

[Meep Meep]

But you were the one who labeled Christians as homophobic? Hell there isn't even a biblical stance on trans. Only certain Christian sects think homosexuality is a sin but again that doesn't mean they are trying to stop ~you~ from being gay just that if you want to identify as a Christian in their particular sect you can't be gay and go to heaven without repenting before you die. I mean you can be gay your entire life and as far as Christians are concerned if you repent on your death bed you get a ticket out if you were a good person otherwise. And as far as I know the only difference between a gay person and Christian is who they sleep with.

edit; So I'll ask again. Since we have a Pride flag can we get a Southern Baptist flag?

It's really cool and would fit right in with the normal house banners.

Edited by Meep Meep, 20 July 2025 - 10:38 PM.

[LordNothing]

i hate to say it but the whole lgbq... movement and your typical bible thumpers (especially the baptists) have a whole lot more in common than you would think. eg their need to constantly proselytize, indoctrinate children, spam my doorstep with fliers, attack the creator of harry potter (i remember a baptist church left a flier in the mens room at a stadium accusing her of witchcraft, so it bemuses me greatly to see another group they are opposed to do the exact same thing), etc. woke in general is just another damn religion.

[1453 R]

Meep Meep, on 20 July 2025 - 09:31 PM, said:

What about any of my posts on the subject cast any negativity on pride members? I would assume that if my posts really were bigoted and attacking pride members they would have been deleted and moderation action taken? All I have asked is give an outline to add it in just like any screener for any ip would do? No one who controls an ip adds in stuff 'just because'. I didn't even start the convo I just replied to it. I think I have been exceedingly reasonable so far.

I will lay this out for you, because this is a very common mistake and also one of the most common forms of recognized transmisia (which I have linked the definition of before, but in short: transphobia is technically "fear of LGBTQ+ people" while transmisia is "hatred of LGBTQ+ people.")

What you are doing is something I refer to as "Over There-ing" all LGBTQ+ people. Which is to say you constantly and continually claim that we can be ourselves and celebrate our own identities...so long as we do it Over There. With "Over There" being somewhere you don't have to look at it, see it, hear about it, or acknowledge its existence - or ours - in any way. Essentially, telling us we are not permitted to be ourselves anywhere that, to coin a common phrase, Right-Thinking Decent Folk(C) can see it, because there's something inherently perverse, unclean, and impure about our identities and we shouldn't be imposing those impurities on anyone else.

With all due respect: f*** that noise forever.

You ask why 'everybody' doesn't get representation? In an ideal world, they would! But we don't live in an ideal world, do we? We live in a world where millions and millions of people in my nation are fighting their absolute hardest to erase and eradicate us, oftentimes with physical violence, and many other nations have outlawed us on pain of state-sanctioned execution. Nobody is fighting to exclude Christians or Christianity from things, or at least not at any significant scale here in the United States.

Christians do not need representation and acknowledgement - though, again, in a perfect world they would receive it anyways - because they are already accepted as being perfectly normal people whose beliefs and ideals should generally be respected. LGBTQ+ people do not enjoy such a luxury. You are fighting to deny us this representation and our efforts to become accepted while doing absolutely nothing to offer us the luxury of simply being accepted that you enjoy so freely you are completely blind to it.

That is called 'privilege', and those who benefit from it have to understand that redressing the imbalance sometimes feels unfair simply because "the way it's always been" has been unfair for so long that nobody thinks about it anymore. Doesn't mean what you perceive as "unfair" is actually unfair. Simply that you should try and broaden your worldview, if you can.

And because this is a gigantic personal pet peeve and anger point of mine on this whole topic...

LordNothing, on 21 July 2025 - 05:02 AM, said:

...
indoctrinate children
...

NONE OF US ARE TRYING TO INDOCTRINATE YOUR FREAKING KIDS!!!! DO NOT ACCUSE US OF IT!!!

LGBTQ+ people wish for the existence of LGBTQ+ people to be part of basic education because we exist, and children deserve to know LGBTQ+ people exist the same way they know of people of different races, different creeds, or different nationalities. One of the biggest ways in which fundamentalist conservative jackholes - regardless of which creed they claim - try to erase us from existence forever is by ensuring nobody has a single freaking clue we exist until they're in their twenties and all their worldview has already been largely set. They think "if we can stop our kids from learning them queers exist, then our kids won't be queer and we can teach 'em to hate queers like good right-thinking decent folk!", which is both an agonizing misunderstanding of how sexuality and identity work and also just vicious-minded to start with.

Basic education is NOT(!!!) "indoctrination", and it is all we are asking for.

Edited by 1453 R, 21 July 2025 - 05:58 AM.

[LordNothing]

the thing is gender dysphoria isnt the first mental disorder (its in the dsm-v) to be in vogue. they were feeding us ritalin trying to sell us on the idea that we were some how malfunctioning, when we were pretty much going through the natural teenage trials. history is merely repeating itself. public schools need to get out of the diagnosis business. they are bad at it.

im not saying all members of the pride movement (or the church) are indoctrinating children, but enough of them do to be of concern. people who wave the american flag can have drastically different ideas of of to go about running america, same is true of wavers of other flags. there are completely different trans camps for example, there are the dysphoria sufferers proper, and then you have the too cutes who transition mostly out of eroticism (ive considered this myself, though i have the physique of a pro wrestler which is none to adaptable to feminization, still doesnt stop me from playing dressup at 3am when noone is watching, moobs make passible boobs in the right outfit but im still a guy and like guy things). you cannot deny that there are those in the movement who want to take it into a questionable direction. i see them all the time.

whats further i do believe they are pushing for social change at an unsustanable rate and stand to undo the progress that has been made in the last 20 or so years. as the bible thumpers say, pride cometh before a fall. dont take the rest of us down with you.

Edited by LordNothing, 21 July 2025 - 06:35 AM.

[GuardDogg]

Oh no! going off topic to; politcal, religion.

[MechMaster059]

Could a moderator please step in and lock this thread?

It's been hijacked and derailed and the people involved clearly won't stop posting.

[1453 R]

Y'know LordNothing, you mostly had my agreement up until this post. But now I've gotta crack you, because this was pretty gross.

LordNothing, on 21 July 2025 - 06:26 AM, said:

the thing is gender dysphoria isnt the first mental disorder (its in the dsm-v) to be in vogue. they were feeding us ritalin trying to sell us on the idea that we were some how malfunctioning, when we were pretty much going through the natural teenage trials. history is merely repeating itself. public schools need to get out of the diagnosis business. they are bad at it.

Yes, schools like to push for mental illness diagnoses because that means more money diverted their way from government programs. This is bad and unhelpful. Not one single soul is asking a school to diagnose crap. We're saying STOP(!!!!) ripping LGBTQ+ books out of school libraries. STOP erasing even the merest mention of the word "identity" from school lexicons. STOP punishing and brutalizing LGBTQ+ students in an effort to silence them or drive them into home-schooled exile, like I was. STOP trying to control the narrative such that they squeeze every last trace of us out of it.

LordNothing, on 21 July 2025 - 06:26 AM, said:

im not saying all members of the pride movement (or the church) are indoctrinating children, but enough of them do to be of concern. people who wave the american flag can have drastically different ideas of of to go about running america, same is true of wavers of other flags. there are completely different trans camps for example, there are the dysphoria sufferers proper, and then you have the too cutes who transition mostly out of eroticism (ive considered this myself, though i have the physique of a pro wrestler which is none to adaptable to feminization, still doesnt stop me from playing dressup at 3am when noone is watching, moobs make passible boobs in the right outfit but im still a guy and like guy things). you cannot deny that there are those in the movement who want to take it into a questionable direction. i see them all the time.

Why someone decides to transition is their business. Trying to lessen or delegitimize someone's decision to transition by claiming it's not dysphoria or is "just [X]" is ugly, and I'm going to ask you to stop. First of all, medical dysphoria is broader than just "I hate my body", which I can speak to because I was diagnosed with gender dysphoria by a licensed professional as an adult and my experience had little to do with physical self-hatred. Who you are in the depths of your heart often has little to do with the body you were issued at birth, and everyone's experience of themselves deserves due consideration.

LordNothing, on 21 July 2025 - 06:26 AM, said:

whats further i do believe they are pushing for social change at an unsustanable rate and stand to undo the progress that has been made in the last 20 or so years. as the bible thumpers say, pride cometh before a fall. dont take the rest of us down with you.

So we're simply supposed to suffer injustice, humiliation, ostracization and physical danger for, what? Another thirty, forty, fifty years before we're allowed to stand up and say "Knock this **** off"? No. We did make a lot of progress in the oughts and the early teens that was wiped out by the Orange Man, but the fact that we've suffered such heavy setbacks doesn't mean we quit and limp back into the closet to slowly die of our wounds. It means we've hit the second phase of the Dark Souls boss fight, and it's time to knuckle down and dodge roll harder.

As for the rest of you: we exist. Deal with it. Our existence isn't "political", it's an issue of fundamental rights. Don't like it? Stop murdering us, or denying us basic goods, services and rights because of your own personal beefs.

[KursedVixen]

since we're going to have free pride content may i suggest free country flag decals?