206 replies to this topic

[a 5 year old with an Uzi]

You know how many of these Railsharks I'm seeing? Would be genuinely surprised if it wasn't one of the most popular legend packs to date. Not difficult to imagine why.

[Moadebe]

a 5 year old with an Uzi, on 24 August 2025 - 10:11 PM, said:

You know how many of these Railsharks I'm seeing? Would be genuinely surprised if it wasn't one of the most popular legend packs to date. Not difficult to imagine why.

I think its the defense of this thing while only focusing on the DPS/Damage aspect of it that astonishes me the most. There are mechanics at play here that are NOT good for the overall health of MWO. But hey....What do we all know right? We can see a problem ALL we want...it wont matter. Only about 150 players have a say on this stuff. Devil be damned the rest.

[Elric-]

ARMHOLD MUSCLEHOGGER, on 19 August 2025 - 08:02 PM, said:

Yeah we needed another mech designed to camp and one shot torsos off and drag games out to standoffs until you get so bored you just charge them and die, tier 1 guys will love this one dropping four or five at a time in a sync drop.

cant agree more. drops are such blow outs any more

[LordNothing]

i havent bubbled up my psr like this since the dreadnought.

[1453 R]

I do not own the pack. I am not defending "my toy".

I am trying to find out why the Railcannon is literally the worst thing to have happened to MWO since the Golden 'Mech Fiasco, while dual heavy gauss rifle 'Mechs are perfectly fine with no problems whatsoever.

The level of damage this weapon does has existed in this game for a long time. It has never existed in a single gun before, no, but MWO doesn't really have "separate weapons" the way one does in, say, the tabletop game or HBS' game. If you have six large lasers on a Stalker and you push the Rek Him and Me Both button, you don't spray six large lasers across the other guy. You fire six large lasers at the exact same pixel, and effectively you have a single Large-to-the-Sixth laser, not six individual large lasers.

That's why I'm so baffled by everyone screaming their heads off that the Rail Gone 9000 is super mega ultra busted because it has big numbers. I would hope it has big numbers, given what it weighs and how many smaller guns you could pack into the same slots and tonnage.

But seriously. Seriously.
PGI releases a big gnarsty 'Mech that's really good: "OMG THIS IS OP P2W P2W PEE TWO DUBBLEYOO!!! THEY'RE THE WORST FRICKING PEOPLE EVER I WON'T EVER BUY ANYTHING THEY MAKE EVER AGAIN!!!!!!"

PGI releases a "fun"/niche/bad 'Mech for the lulz and memes: "OMG THIS IS TRASH WHY THE HELL WOULD ANYONE EVER PAY FOR THIS WASTE OF MONEY PG?!?! THEY'RE THE WORST FRICKING PEOPLE EVER I WON'T EVER BUY ANYTHING THEY MAKE EVER AGAIN!!!!!!"

They quite literally cannot win. If they sell ANYTHING, they're evil monsters who deserve to be run into bankruptcy.

Like...do y'all want to keep the servers running? If so, ya gotta buy 'Mechs sometimes. Ya don't gotta buy all the 'Mechs, or even most of the 'Mechs, but enough people gotta buy enough 'Mechs that they keep the damn thing going. Is it a great monetization scheme, no. Not at all. But it's the one they're stuck with, as much as we are.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

TBH, I don't find them that problematic, not near as cancerous as Scattershot/Scaleshot on release especially since you can't have an entire lance of these Bullsharks. I do have to play a bit more careful as a light/medium when I see one because they are OP, but I don't really see bad players doing well in them like I did when people were using Scaleshots to just NSR into a lance off spawn, mostly just good players putting up crazy numbers but I'm sure we will have more concrete numbers later.

I do think it needs changed but I think the bigger problem is that people are using this to justify their existing biases and pointing to it like it's a systemic issue when it just hasn't been. The bigger issue is that assaults just sell well because the remaining community playing this game wants the assault power fantasy without any of the skill/effort required.

Edited by Quicksilver Aberration, 25 August 2025 - 01:25 PM.

[Terran123rd]

Because it's not just the damage numbers. It's never been just the damage numbers.

If you want to compare to dual HGR, let's compare.

A single heavy gauss rifle weighs 18 tons and takes up 11 slots (making dHGR 36 tons and 22 slots), restricting it to side torsos, the only exception being a single Jaegermech variant that gives up its upper arm actuators to make it work. With the exception of that one Jaegermech, any build that uses even one HGR gives up the ability to use light or XL engines, forcing it to use standard engines only and either give up even more weight to have a decent speed or give up speed to save weight. The huge slot investment also forces the build to forgo at least one weight-saving tech.

The massive weight and size of dHGR also typically forces the build to forgo backup weapons, often entirely.

Finally, the heavy gauss rifle has a very short optimal range, just 250 meters, meaning that a pilot who wants to deliver the full 50 points of damage is forced into brawling range, often against mechs that are even more heavily armed than it.

All in all, it's heavy, bulky, and forces a specific, easily-counterable playstyle in exchange for high pinpoint damage. That's fairly well balanced.

The railgun is 30 tons and takes up 12 slots, 5 in each side torso and both in the center torso. It is six tons lighter than dHGR and is 10 slots smaller, not to mention that those slots are spread between all three torsoes. All of this combines to allow both the IS and Clan versions of the mech to use light/XL/cXL engines AND weight-saving tech.

All of this means that War Ghoul has 20 tons, 15 slots free for backup weapons (15 tons, 17 slots with LFE) while Void Killer gets 23 tons, 16 slots. That's not insignificant, especially with Void Killer's clan tech making those backup weapons smaller and lighter. The stock loadouts for both mechs come with a heavy mech's worth of lasers.

The railgun itself has a an optimal range of 810 meters and a ridiculous 2,050 meter max range meaning that either mech, if the player so desires, can sit back, snipe, and still deal the weapon's full 40 pinpoint + 12 + 12 splash damage.

If it was just a 40 pinpoint weapon, that might actually be fine, given that it's a fixed weapon; you're stuck with it, so it might as well hit hard. It's the splash damage that pushes it into the ridiculous. Splash damage, damage automatically applied to adjacent components, that is, is already stupid because it completely bypasses skilled play(1), but the railgun's 12 + 12 splash is ridiculous. It's 3 times higher than ANY other splash weapon. Two full SRM6s' worth of damage (1 SRM6 per component) applied to components that weren't even hit.

Even the HAG-40, which has the same alpha and had the highest splash until the railgun came along, only does 4 + 4 splash.

The railgun is smaller, lighter, longer-ranged, allows for multiple play styles, and indulges in a problematic mechanic.

That's why it's problematic.

(1) - Splash damage bypasses skilled play because it allows the user to damage components that the target was using positioning, torso twisting, or cover to protect; i.e. hitting a leg or arm with a snub or cERPPC to pop a side torso that said weapon otherwise couldn't hit, even when the arm/leg in question is not destroyed.

This is different from spread damage weapons, like lasers or LBXACs, that do damage over time or over a physical area. A skilled player can force lasers, even 6 large lasers(2), to spread their damage over multiple components and reduce the damage done to any single component.

(2) - Even as hard as 6 large lasers (or any laser vomit build) hit, it's not pointpoint damage. Lasers are hitscan, yes, and they converge to a single point, yes, but they do damage over time, allowing a skilled player to mitigate this damage by torso twisting or seeking cover. That's why they're not pinpoint weapons.

Edited by Terran123rd, 25 August 2025 - 03:02 PM.

[a 5 year old with an Uzi]

LordNothing, on 25 August 2025 - 08:28 AM, said:

i havent bubbled up my psr like this since the dreadnought.

Dreadnought pads damage like crazy with 4 boosted arty and AC10 spam. It's a CBill farming Kodiak 3 but better. Some Legends are goofy, others are kind of gross.

Edited by a 5 year old with an Uzi, 25 August 2025 - 03:06 PM.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Terran123rd, on 25 August 2025 - 11:50 AM, said:

This is different from spread damage weapons, like lasers or LBXACs, that do damage over time or over a physical area. A skilled player can force lasers, even 6 large lasers(2), to spread their damage over multiple components and reduce the damage done to any single component.

So you run afoul at this point. DoT > Splash > Spread. While you are correct that lasers/LBX spread their damage, the difference between spreading over space and time is very important in factoring how skill overcomes those problems. If you have steady aim you can over come some of the issues with DoT (opportunity is still a problem as even a 1s duration can be problematic for certain scenarios). Spread at least in this game isn't something you can really overcome in this game. SRMs waaaaaay back had ranges where they converged which allowed you to utilize some skill by maintaining certain ranges but for the most part spread is just a soft range limit. Splash you still have to aim for a section next the thing you are trying to destroy which still requires aim, it just might be able to defeat torso twisting (which is fine IMO because deadsides somehow making you tankier is absolutely stupid and creates some awkward scenarios like trying to protect your remaining leg and such, even if it requires more skill). This is why HAGs got splash, to diffuse some of the upfront damage at mid range better than spread did, while allowing them to be actually useful at longer ranges (which they weren't with spread).

Splash isn't the problem, the problem is it is just powerful for all the "negatives" it has, at least on the Clan side. The IS side is honestly less impressive.

[Void Angel]

Edit: Forgot to include the burst duration in dps calculations. AAAAAUGH. Fixed now.

Terran123rd, on 25 August 2025 - 11:50 AM, said:

Because it's not just the damage numbers. It's never been just the damage numbers.

The railgun is 30 tons and takes up 12 slots, 5 in each side torso and both in the center torso. It is six tons lighter than dHGR and is 10 slots smaller, not to mention that those slots are spread between all three torsoes. All of this combines to allow both the IS and Clan versions of the mech to use light/XL/cXL engines AND weight-saving tech.

All of this means that War Ghoul has 20 tons, 15 slots free for backup weapons (15 tons, 17 slots with LFE) while Void Killer gets 23 tons, 16 slots. That's not insignificant, especially with Void Killer's clan tech making those backup weapons smaller and lighter. The stock loadouts for both mechs come with a heavy mech's worth of lasers.

The railgun itself has a an optimal range of 810 meters and a ridiculous 2,050 meter max range meaning that either mech, if the player so desires, can sit back, snipe, and still deal the weapon's full 40 pinpoint + 12 + 12 splash damage.

If it was just a 40 pinpoint weapon, that might actually be fine, given that it's a fixed weapon; you're stuck with it, so it might as well hit hard. It's the splash damage that pushes it into the ridiculous. Splash damage, damage automatically applied to adjacent components, that is, is already stupid because it completely bypasses skilled play(1), but the railgun's 12 + 12 splash is ridiculous. It's 3 times higher than ANY other splash weapon. Two full SRM6s' worth of damage (1 SRM6 per component) applied to components that weren't even hit.

Even the HAG-40, which has the same alpha and had the highest splash until the railgun came along, only does 4 + 4 splash.

The railgun is smaller, lighter, longer-ranged, allows for multiple play styles, and indulges in a problematic mechanic.

That's why it's problematic.

All right, it's "Um, actually" time.

You started off well - because you're right on a number of points: Dual HGauss is not a near-substitute for the Railgun, and it is never just the damage numbers. The Railgun's overall damage profile also may well be a problem when you consider the splash damage - you can't just count the pinpoint - and splash damage weapons are not the same as scatter or hitscan weapons (though lasers are still pinpoint; they're just not frontloaded pinpoint, which is what you're getting at, anyway.) But then you left out a bunch of relevant stuff that's not damage numbers.

Missing from your calculations is the cooldown of those weapon systems, and the need to compare similar tonnage costs, if feasible. Base cooldown for the Clan Gauss Rifle^*, HAG/40, HGauss, and Railgun are often wildly different. The total recharge time for these weapons is 5 sec, 7.77sec, 5sec, and 8sec, respectively. HGauss isn't really the same role, so I'm ignoring it until brawling Railsharks become a common build. So let's consider Dual Gauss, dual HAG/40, and Railgun as tonnage-equivalent options which all share the same brackets for range. The HAG is included primarily for comparison

For reference, those guns' distinct base base stats are:

• Dual Clan Gauss: 30 (+0) damage; 6.0dps; with 2 heat (0.40hps,) costing 24 tons and 12 slots
  
• Dual HAG/40s 64 (+16) damage; 8.24 (10.30 total) dps; with 21 heat (3.0hps,) costing 32 tons and 20 slots - and delivering its damage in a minimum of 1.27 seconds total burst duration, with staggered fire required to avoid heat scale penalties.
  
• And last, we have the Railgun: 40 (+24) damage; 5.0 (8.0 total) dps; with 20 heat (2.5hps,) costing 30 tons and 12 slots.
  
• For a bonus comparison, dual HAG/30s deal 48 (+12) damage; 7.27 (9.09 total) dps; with 18 heat (2.73 hps,) and cost 26 tons with 16 slots - with a far saner .6 second burst duration and no Heat Scale penalties. A saner option, but also farther down the scale between weapon systems. More on that in a bit.

Now: none of these numbers, or the information derived from them, absolutely proves the Railgun to be balanced - or overpowered. What it does is to give us a basis for analysis, and to challenge some premature conclusions. Because the total stats on paper tell us, at the very least, what the Powers That Be were likely thinking when they set the stats on this weapon. Dual Gauss is somewhat lighter and faster, syncing better with supplementary lasers, both in cooldown and the Gauss Rifle's exceptional heat efficiency. The HAG/40s, on the other hand, demonstrate a positively huge increase in total burst damage, at the cost of a very long burst duration and no front-loaded pinpoint. Similarly, the Railgun's pinpoint damage output - while greater per hit - produces inferior dps compared to the two Gauss Rifles at the other end of the scale, but at 20 times the heat cost. Of course, the Gauss Rifles aren't adding six damage to adjacent 'mech components, either (more on this in a bit, as well.)

Viewed in this light, the Railgun falls somewhere between the two weapons on a sort of scale between strong pinpoint and heat efficiency on the one end (Gauss Rifle,) and massive overall damage at the cost of pinpoint at the other. If you're not seeing what I mean yet, consider this: the HAG/40 has about 21% more total dps per ton than the Railgun; the HAG/30, 31% higher. Conversely, the Railgun's high heat allows Dual Gauss builds to sustain a significantly higher rate of fire by comparison, particularly when supplemental energy weapons are included - and more of the Gauss Rifle build's total damage is likely to land on the intended enemy component.

Because it bears repeating: I'm not arguing that the Railgun is balanced. I rather suspect it's not, particularly on the Clan side - hence my choice of tech bases - yet by looking at these two comparisons, I think we can see the balance point the Railgun was aiming for. But here's the rub: where balance actually lies is dependent on a bunch of things that we simply cannot calculate from weapon stats. Burst duration is a significant limitation in any ballistic, but how much does that buy back the superior damage; pinpoint damage is important, but so is heat efficiency - and how much does pulling so much of the Railgun's damage into splash damage actually hinder the weapon as a sniper - and how does that stack up against the benefits of the overall damage? How much does raw alpha matter in relation to superior dps in the first place? The answers to all of those questions are: "It depends." It depends on what 'mech you're shooting at, and from what angle; it depends on how well they're able to maintain their desired range and what map you're playing; it depends on how many other long-range 'mechs are on your and the enemy's teams. More often than we'd like, it really does... depend. We can get to a general ballpark; it's not like crunching numbers is useless, or I wouldn't have spent... frankly too much time, doing it here. But the theoretical performance of a weapon never matches its use by actual players, so at the end of the day, some stuff just depends.

The answers to all of those questions exist, in the game telemetry data that the Cauldron will use to analyze how the weapon and its varous core builds work. I'm fairly certain that's the reason they dropped two identical Legends with identical Railguns into two very much not identical tech bases: it gives them a baseline for evaluating how tech base affects synergies with the weapon. In any case, looking at the data analytically helps us see how the mech was likely designed, and why it might not be the horribly broken Thing That Will Kill the GAME! (dun, dun, DUNNN) that some people are screaming that it definitely is - based on their personal feels on the subject.

_*:I'm using the Clan Gauss Rifle because frankly the Clans' Gauss options overall are closer to the Railgun than the Inner Sphere. The IS GR has slightly higher DPS to offset the significantly lighter Clan equivalent and account for the Clans' superior supplementary lasers.

Spoiler

PS:It doesn't matter for the argument, because it's an apples to oranges comparison, but you're also wrong about HGauss builds in general. Most dual HGauss builds do, in fact, have backup weapons, sometimes devoting significant tonnage to them. Heavies often do have to go pure HGauss, but that's to be expected when you're literally devoting over half of your tonnage to guns, before ammo. Assaults nearly always use backup weapons, because their larger size and slower movement (along with excess heat capacity) give them the tonnage to spend - and require them to mount those weapons in order to survive in the close-to-midrange combat HGauss forces them to specialize in.

Edited by Void Angel, 25 August 2025 - 09:50 PM.

[Bud Crue]

Quicksilver Aberration, on 25 August 2025 - 04:09 PM, said:

So you run afoul at this point. DoT > Splash > Spread. While you are correct that lasers/LBX spread their damage, the difference between spreading over space and time is very important in factoring how skill overcomes those problems. If you have steady aim you can over come some of the issues with DoT (opportunity is still a problem as even a 1s duration can be problematic for certain scenarios). Spread at least in this game isn't something you can really overcome in this game. SRMs waaaaaay back had ranges where they converged which allowed you to utilize some skill by maintaining certain ranges but for the most part spread is just a soft range limit. Splash you still have to aim for a section next the thing you are trying to destroy which still requires aim, it just might be able to defeat torso twisting (which is fine IMO because deadsides somehow making you tankier is absolutely stupid and creates some awkward scenarios like trying to protect your remaining leg and such, even if it requires more skill). This is why HAGs got splash, to diffuse some of the upfront damage at mid range better than spread did, while allowing them to be actually useful at longer ranges (which they weren't with spread).

Splash isn't the problem, the problem is it is just powerful for all the "negatives" it has, at least on the Clan side. The IS side is honestly less impressive.

I'm tired. I won't pretend that I know more that the comp level folks, or Cauldron members who insist they know what's best for the game and all things balance, etc. All I know is that exposing in some of the weaker mechs in this game, just trying to get from point A to point B; not even actively trading, when there are one or more railgun mechs waiting to pot shot you, is an instagib more often than not (especially in many/most mediums). a "mere" 64 points if they aren't running back ups, and they are ALL running some sort of backups, be they clan or IS. That isn't fun, it doesn't feel like balance. But hey 64 points from a single weapon; something that has never been done before in this game is, I guess, "not problematic".

Apropos, how many 4ERPPC (clan or otherwise) mechs are there that have a similar heat out-put to the rail gun AND have numerous secondary weapon options (that don't put it into the realm of instant shut down/self kill mechs of old) are there? And let's stop with the "iTs oNLy 40 pOInt aLPhA" nonsense, while ignoring 24 points of splash (which at the end of a match can be responsible for plenty of kills). If there aren't many, why is that? If this 40+24+ whatever profile is oh so balanced, why aren't such builds more prolific?

[a 5 year old with an Uzi]

1453 R, on 25 August 2025 - 09:05 AM, said:

I do not own the pack. I am not defending "my toy".

I am trying to find out why the Railcannon is literally the worst thing to have happened to MWO since the Golden 'Mech Fiasco, while dual heavy gauss rifle 'Mechs are perfectly fine with no problems whatsoever.

The level of damage this weapon does has existed in this game for a long time. It has never existed in a single gun before, no, but MWO doesn't really have "separate weapons" the way one does in, say, the tabletop game or HBS' game. If you have six large lasers on a Stalker and you push the Rek Him and Me Both button, you don't spray six large lasers across the other guy. You fire six large lasers at the exact same pixel, and effectively you have a single Large-to-the-Sixth laser, not six individual large lasers.

That's why I'm so baffled by everyone screaming their heads off that the Rail Gone 9000 is super mega ultra busted because it has big numbers. I would hope it has big numbers, given what it weighs and how many smaller guns you could pack into the same slots and tonnage.

But seriously. Seriously.
PGI releases a big gnarsty 'Mech that's really good: "OMG THIS IS OP P2W P2W PEE TWO DUBBLEYOO!!! THEY'RE THE WORST FRICKING PEOPLE EVER I WON'T EVER BUY ANYTHING THEY MAKE EVER AGAIN!!!!!!"

PGI releases a "fun"/niche/bad 'Mech for the lulz and memes: "OMG THIS IS TRASH WHY THE HELL WOULD ANYONE EVER PAY FOR THIS WASTE OF MONEY PG?!?! THEY'RE THE WORST FRICKING PEOPLE EVER I WON'T EVER BUY ANYTHING THEY MAKE EVER AGAIN!!!!!!"

They quite literally cannot win. If they sell ANYTHING, they're evil monsters who deserve to be run into bankruptcy.

Like...do y'all want to keep the servers running? If so, ya gotta buy 'Mechs sometimes. Ya don't gotta buy all the 'Mechs, or even most of the 'Mechs, but enough people gotta buy enough 'Mechs that they keep the damn thing going. Is it a great monetization scheme, no. Not at all. But it's the one they're stuck with, as much as we are.

Mechs bought:

Moonwalker, Dreadnought, Sovereign (absolute f***ing farming monsters basically Cbill printers, Moonwalker and Sovereign break theme for alt account but jesus they farm), Starshot, Hashke and Abaddon on BOTH ACCOUNTS, Scattershot, Blight, 2 a la carte platinum packs (1 Clan 1 IS), a couple of those holiday packs with stupid amounts of mechbays or GSP

You can sit down now, or are you going to keep insinuating that I'm a freeloader

[LordNothing]

i dont think the gun itself is op. there are many other build that can dump that damage at long range. you can easily outdo it at its half damage range with many other high alpha range builds (5erll warhammers for example). it still hits like an ac20 at that range, but other builds can do that too. longer ranges are kind of impractical, since the time to impact can get lengthy. its the gun and the backup weapons on a chassis which already did pretty well on its own. all its elements just blend a little bit too well.

had the weapon been crammed into a lighter mech it would do less well. i got one into a drg-flame with 5t ammo and the extra 10 slots left unallocated for the mouting brackets. the gun weighs the same as the rest of the mech combined. i admit that would be a fun build though it would get hammered into the ground the second something got into brawling range.

i feel like the bullshark legends work best as a bracket build, and any meta player will tell you that is submeta. you can put erlls on the thing, but the midrange weapons seem critical for fighting off close in mechs. ive had to train myself not to grow overly dependant on the railgun alone to do well with it. the clan version gets six mpls, which makes short work of lights that get too close. i got 4 lppcs on my war ghoul, i get into trouble a lot but i wanted the skills towards velocity and save the four points for the lasers. the clan version does better with its mpls (and it doesn't explode when i forget what railgun mech im in). another thing i think it has going for it is it tends to keep heads down and lets you dominate the closer in battlespace, and has the midrange firepower to do it.

Edited by LordNothing, 25 August 2025 - 07:46 PM.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Bud Crue, on 25 August 2025 - 06:48 PM, said:

Apropos, how many 4ERPPC (clan or otherwise) mechs are there that have a similar heat out-put to the rail gun AND have numerous secondary weapon options (that don't put it into the realm of instant shut down/self kill mechs of old) are there? And let's stop with the "iTs oNLy 40 pOInt aLPhA" nonsense, while ignoring 24 points of splash (which at the end of a match can be responsible for plenty of kills). If there aren't many, why is that? If this 40+24+ whatever profile is oh so balanced, why aren't such builds more prolific?

I don't think the IS honestly has space for that much secondary weapon options, at least not near as much as on the clan side.

FWIW, here is what I put in the Cauldron feedback discord on this very topic (because some are using the railgun as a leaping off point for how HGR should be buffed):

Quote

The railgun is effectively 4 cERPPCs without any ghost heat, without convergence issues, better velocity, or really even remotely the same heat either. You just can't shoot as often but tbh with all that you save compared to 4 cERPPCs you can overcome that issue with lasers. It is definitely broken in comparison to other weapons of a similar role

Though again, given how important quirks are for IS, I still find the IS one to not be anywhere near as problematic as the Clan railgun Bullshark.

As for the bit about crossing ground, flanking, etc. I have a few comments on that I'll just quote and copy/pasta over to here:

Quote

I mean you typically have the agency because by this point you should know the popular angles that people hold with range or at least know how to peek into them for scouting info without potentially getting blasted. That's the bigger issue is somehow people still haven't learned how to scout without over-exposing or just like to repeatedly poke into angles that every long range assault loves to hold

Quote

The issue isn't the maps, it's 12v12 because there's simply more eyes available to cover angles. And yes, you should fear getting crippled poking into a well defended angle, otherwise what's the point in defending the angle. I mean I think the VK is OP, but the argument some people use is.....really just a krill issue half the time.

Quote

I mean ultimately this comes back to the whole being made to feel helpless, players don't like dying with only double digit damage or when they feel like they weren't able to contribute. It's part of the reason I hate we can't pick mechs after the map is chosen, but also an issue of contrast when you have a game where armor/speed/size/etc can vary between magnitudes of up to 5x the difference if not more when you start talking about range (where you have both a ~250m max range and 2km max range weapon). There's only so much you can do about it without making cover irrelevant though, long range has to have punch to counter short range for those cases where the team grows a pair and actually just murderballs over a team, and long range has to have punch to make it relevant compared to just DPS builds

Edited by Quicksilver Aberration, 25 August 2025 - 08:01 PM.

[Void Angel]

a 5 year old with an Uzi, on 25 August 2025 - 07:12 PM, said:

Mechs bought:

Moonwalker, Dreadnought, Sovereign (absolute f***ing farming monsters basically Cbill printers, Moonwalker and Sovereign break theme for alt account but jesus they farm), Starshot, Hashke and Abaddon on BOTH ACCOUNTS, Scattershot, Blight, 2 a la carte platinum packs (1 Clan 1 IS), a couple of those holiday packs with stupid amounts of mechbays or GSP

You can sit down now, or are you going to keep insinuating that I'm a freeloader

She's not calling you a freeloader. She's expressing frustration because it seems to her that no matter what PGI puts out for 'mechs, people knock them for it. Which isn't wrong, though it's not always the same people.

[GuardDogg]

CTs are very weak. Players know where to hit when they see this mech. And sound for the Rail gun could be improved.(changed).

[BlueDevilspawn]

Void Angel, on 25 August 2025 - 08:18 PM, said:

She's not calling you a freeloader. She's expressing frustration because it seems to her that no matter what PGI puts out for 'mechs, people knock them for it. Which isn't wrong, though it's not always the same people.

Some time ago one of the devs said "you could make a new chassis, give it away for free, and people would still complain."

Big mech? Assaults OP reeeeeeee
Small mech? Lights OP reeeeeeee
Novel PGI mech? So much lore left untouched reeeeeeee
Lore mech? So much left on the table reeeeeeeee
New capabilities? P2W reeeeeeeeeeeee (nevermind the initial Clans launch being far more P2W than anything that's come since)

Basically it comes down to "they didn't magically read my mind reeeeeeeeee"

[Void Angel]

BlueDevilspawn, on 26 August 2025 - 12:37 PM, said:

New capabilities? P2W reeeeeeeeeeeee (nevermind the initial Clans launch being far more P2W than anything that's come since)

There are people, to this day, who insist that the Clans were balanced on release, and that every balancing adjustment since was essentially a campaign of unfair persecution.

[Ilfi]

Void Angel, on 26 August 2025 - 02:03 PM, said:

There are people, to this day, who insist that the Clans were balanced on release, and that every balancing adjustment since was essentially a campaign of unfair persecution.

My favorite excuse to date is "muh Table Top!". The disconnect between a balanced game and following their Mech Bible is insurmountable for some people.

After more exposure to the Clan Railgun setup, yeah it's definitely on the stronger side. While I can think of plenty of 400m range laser vomit setups that pack more power, I'm struggling to think of any sniper/ER LL flashlight range setups that are outputting more damage per peek than it. Pretty nutty stuff.

[fxd3]

The 40 point and 12 splash damage doesn't matter when I see so many players that can't keep the reticle on the enemy.