72 replies to this topic

[pbiggz]

Im low end tier 3. You are having a temper tantrum.

[w0qj]

Since when did this game became Cry Baby Online?

The Tier assignment is accurate and scientifically math-based.
Whether or not this fits in with our ego is an entirely different matter.

Go and play lots of games, look only at Damage Done and Kill Assists. Versus your own team. Versus all 24 players.
You will find a very strong correlation with your green/red arrow up/down, based on Damage Done and Kill Assists.
(There are other factors that fine-tune this, but these are rather minor consideration).

Your Team winning a match is obviously much more conductive for a "green/up" arrow for you.
Typically, only the lowest performing 2 players in your winning Team gets a "red/down" arrow. Empirical data.

Should your Team lose a match, only the best performing 2 players in your losing Team gets a "green/up" arrow. Empirical data.

I myself have observed my own hundreds of games (if not more), and above is my conclusion.

In short, there is a very strong correlation between the magnitude of your green/red arrow and your Damage Done and Kill Assists in that particular match.

(A few years back, I've read somewhere on this forum that there are "1000 points" between each tier, and the maximum that your up/down arrow can move in any one particular game is "20 points". But I have no way of testing this.)

Edited by w0qj, 16 November 2025 - 09:03 AM.

[Mayhem Lewis]

martian, on 30 October 2025 - 09:54 PM, said:

Conclusion: The only liar in this thread is you. You have created a strawman (The Tier Lie:"Supposedly, tier5 and tier4 players would never have to face tier 1 players.") and now you are fighting it.

I made the mistake of reading this post, after rolling my eyes so hard they almost locked up I saw who wrote it, and I was not surprised. This post, like damn near every trolling/self-promoting/edgelording post you've made in the last year illustrate that one universal constant: You. Are. The. Worst.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

ARMHOLD MUSCLEHOGGER, on 15 November 2025 - 09:53 PM, said:

Its funny how butt hurt you PGI apologists get when the truth about the game hitting critical mass is brought up for conversation.

Oh I'm not a PGI apologist, they did a lot of damage to this game but the matchmaker isn't really one of them. The game is at a critical mass, what exactly do you expect? It's not like you are constantly seeing tier 1s, last I knew they were but a small portion of the population so barring extremely low population times during the day, you shouldn't see them consistently.

[Rosarius]

w0qj, on 16 November 2025 - 09:02 AM, said:

Since when did this game became Cry Baby Online?

The Tier assignment is accurate and scientifically math-based.
Whether or not this fits in with our ego is an entirely different matter.

Go and play lots of games, look only at Damage Done and Kill Assists. Versus your own team. Versus all 24 players.
You will find a very strong correlation with your green/red arrow up/down, based on Damage Done and Kill Assists.
(There are other factors that fine-tune this, but these are rather minor consideration).

Your Team winning a match is obviously much more conductive for a "green/up" arrow for you.
Typically, only the lowest performing 2 players in your winning Team gets a "red/down" arrow. Empirical data.

Should your Team lose a match, only the best performing 2 players in your losing Team gets a "green/up" arrow. Empirical data.

I myself have observed my own hundreds of games (if not more), and above is my conclusion.

In short, there is a very strong correlation between the magnitude of your green/red arrow and your Damage Done and Kill Assists in that particular match.

(A few years back, I've read somewhere on this forum that there are "1000 points" between each tier, and the maximum that your up/down arrow can move in any one particular game is "20 points". But I have no way of testing this.)

Here is the PSR calculator sheet https://docs.google....#gid=1739121335

There is mathematically no upper limit to PSR gain, in reality you are limited by the performance other 23 players in your game.

It seems PSR loss caps at -25, which you would need to earn zero match score in a game to earn. (for context, even AFK players get SOME match score)

[TheCaptainJZ]

Quicksilver Aberration, on 16 November 2025 - 03:43 PM, said:

Oh I'm not a PGI apologist, they did a lot of damage to this game but the matchmaker isn't really one of them. The game is at a critical mass, what exactly do you expect? It's not like you are constantly seeing tier 1s, last I knew they were but a small portion of the population so barring extremely low population times during the day, you shouldn't see them consistently.

Though T1 players likely are dropping into more matches. Even if the number of players is small, it's the frequency of queuing up that matters. What none of us have data on is the typical composition in the matchmaker throughout a typical day, since that's not displayed. I'm not even sure PGI's tools internally are that granular to produce good reports like that.

The tier system just can't work well for the OP with the population currently playing this game. But is there really any better option? If you block T1 from ever playing T4-5, you can get into a scenario where the MM can't even form enough players to create a game and I think most people would rather play an imbalanced game if the alternative is not to play at all. The only potential help I can think of, given there's next to no dev resources allocated to MWO, not for programming anyway unless something major breaks, is to reduce the number of players required to launch a match. Instead of 24 players, maybe 16 or even 8 during certain periods or some other number. This completely alters the balance though and impacts everything. What we have is about the best we can hope for unless we suddenly got like 5x the number of players.

[Lollerisms]

Also when PGI tried 8v8 there were a *lot* of complaints.

[TheCaptainJZ]

For example, let's say there's 1000 concurrent players over an hour. An average match is probably about 7-8 minutes. Others will be in the mechlab. How many reasonably are looking for a match at a given time, given these numbers? Let's say 20% are in the mechlab or menus. Then 800 are in a match or looking for one. If a new match kicked off every 7 minutes (rolling average) with a 1 minute wait then that gives us 8 buckets of players. At any given time within that hour, 100 players are looking for a match. 24 players are needed for a match so that's only 4 matches that can kick off at a time with whoever is queued. That doesn't give you a lot of flexibility honestly.

Admittedly, this is a very very rough and simplistic example.

Edited by TheCaptainJZ, 19 November 2025 - 09:48 AM.

[pbiggz]

Lollerisms, on 19 November 2025 - 09:45 AM, said:

Also when PGI tried 8v8 there were a *lot* of complaints.

Dont underestimate the capacity of the average player to complain when *anything* changes. 8v8 is better, but its an adjustment. Games feel different and this is a player base with a lot of vocal players who are ready to blame mercury in retrograde for losing if it means they dont have to admit they're bad. 8v8 just gave them an out. Now that the demo is over, they've bounced back to "I am being personally victimized by PSR", case in point, OP, who has checked into this thread maybe twice since writing it, and clearly hasn't learned a damned thing.

Edited by pbiggz, 19 November 2025 - 11:09 AM.

[KursedVixen]

pbiggz, on 19 November 2025 - 11:07 AM, said:

Dont underestimate the capacity of the average player to complain when *anything* changes. 8v8 is better, but its an adjustment. Games feel different and this is a player base with a lot of vocal players who are ready to blame mercury in retrograde for losing if it means they dont have to admit they're bad. 8v8 just gave them an out. Now that the demo is over, they've bounced back to "I am being personally victimized by PSR", case in point, OP, who has checked into this thread maybe twice since writing it, and clearly hasn't learned a damned thing.

When I started playing 8vs8 was the default.

[pbiggz]

KursedVixen, on 19 November 2025 - 11:27 AM, said:

When I started playing 8vs8 was the default.

me too, but its too far in the past for a lot of people to remember, and many more joined well after 12v12, so to them, its brand new.

Edited by pbiggz, 19 November 2025 - 11:36 AM.

[ccrider]

Even retired I like to pop into the forums occasionally to satisfy my need to read random stuff. Oh for the days of faction/unit **** talk. So much more amusing than tier or psr complaints. Oh well, no time for nostalgia. Enjoy your drops and my best wishes to you all that the forums go back to something fun to read.

[PurplePuke]

The complaining will never end no matter what PGI does because a certain percentage of the population are "grievance collectors" who interpret everything in their lives as a personal affront.

Don't be one. Everything about your life is much better when you're not one.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

TheCaptainJZ, on 19 November 2025 - 09:40 AM, said:

Though T1 players likely are dropping into more matches. Even if the number of players is small, it's the frequency of queuing up that matters.

I don't know that that is necessarily true, a lot of players who have the highest drop count per month are on the lower end of things so maybe the average is different but I doubt it. I know of a lot on the upper end that also just skip out on QP almost entirely and maybe play once in a blue moon so like you said, only PGI could really know.

Regardless, your assessment is right, there's not really anything that can be done about any of it given the resource constraints. We tried 8v8 not too long ago and just like previous times it was extremely divisive as far as the community went (regardless of tier no less) so PGI chose the solution that rocked the boat less, which was loosening the tier gates faster (which ironically was something a significant number preferred over 8v8 mind you, numerous on these forums).

[MrMadguy]

This is reason, why I no longer play this game. It's PVP game. It's about competing with other players. In such games balance is very important. Balance - is about things, that are out of players' control. It's very simple. It isn't interesting to play PVP game, if balance is so broken, that player doesn't have any theoretical chance to win. In short - only what we do and how we play should affect our outcome, i.e. winning or losing. Not some "external" factors, that are out of our control, like 'Mech balance or team balance.

I personally don't care, that Tier 1/2 players have longer queues. It's their problem. I don't want to see them in my matches, cuz they ruin my game. Period. I warned devs long time ago, that if they wouldn't solve certain problems, they would lose players. Matchmaking, 'Mech class balance, map design, game modes. Warned? Warned. They didn't listen. Now it's their problem, that game's population is so low, that matchmaking wouldn't function properly, even if they would allow it to.

[a 5 year old with an Uzi]

Quicksilver Aberration, on 19 November 2025 - 05:00 PM, said:

I don't know that that is necessarily true, a lot of players who have the highest drop count per month are on the lower end of things so maybe the average is different but I doubt it. I know of a lot on the upper end that also just skip out on QP almost entirely and maybe play once in a blue moon so like you said, only PGI could really know.

Regardless, your assessment is right, there's not really anything that can be done about any of it given the resource constraints. We tried 8v8 not too long ago and just like previous times it was extremely divisive as far as the community went (regardless of tier no less) so PGI chose the solution that rocked the boat less, which was loosening the tier gates faster (which ironically was something a significant number preferred over 8v8 mind you, numerous on these forums).

They're f***ing stupid or malicious and I'll say that until the servers go dark.

Edited by a 5 year old with an Uzi, 20 November 2025 - 01:25 AM.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

MrMadguy, on 19 November 2025 - 11:10 PM, said:

Matchmaking, 'Mech class balance, map design, game modes. Warned? Warned. They didn't listen. Now it's their problem, that game's population is so low, that matchmaking wouldn't function properly, even if they would allow it to.

The irony here, the biggest drop in population happened because of none of those items. Two things saw large drops in population afterwards:

• Solaris 7
  
• Entering of maintenance mode era

The introduction of the cauldron and new content helped breath life into the population even if it is slowly disappearing (which is inevitable). Or do what I expect you to do and continue to pretend like you are some savant in regards to the games population and what they enjoy and don't enjoy.

a 5 year old with an Uzi, on 20 November 2025 - 01:19 AM, said:

They're f***ing stupid or malicious and I'll say that until the servers go dark.

I mean it's your prerogative, but it doesn't mean you're correct, it just makes you sound like some bitter nutjob which are unfortunately numerous in this community.

[a 5 year old with an Uzi]

8v8 was better.

It. Was. Better. Once you adjusted, it was hands down better. Every single f***ing way.

Edited by a 5 year old with an Uzi, 20 November 2025 - 05:38 PM.

[Ilfi]

a 5 year old with an Uzi, on 20 November 2025 - 05:37 PM, said:

8v8 was better. [...]

Probably. But 8v8 doesn't adequately protect the feelings of weaker-than-average players. Having 11, or 15, or 47 other players to hide behind, copy, and work with gives you that many more ways out of a terrible situation. Similarly, it gives better-than-average players that many more weak links to drag along to the finish line kicking and screaming. Pretty sure Solaris is dead as hell for similar reasons-- in both 1v1 and Team modes.

Shame we can't go back to the days of IS Only quirk-free 8v8 on OG Forest Canyon, Caustic Valley and Frozen City, but it is what it is.

[BlueDevilspawn]

You sound like someone who complains to complain and hasn't actually logged in or even checked the patch notes for who knows how long.

For one thing your comment on Solaris being dead as hell in Team and 1v1? It's been literally gone for years. It was replaced by Event Queue. Funnily enough, I wrote a recent Event Queue as a TRO3025 tribute with 3025 era stock mechs (quirks still on because it would be complete *** if not).

a 5 year old with an Uzi, on 20 November 2025 - 05:37 PM, said:

8v8 was better.

It. Was. Better. Once you adjusted, it was hands down better. Every single f***ing way.

Absolutely agree. And one day we'll get there again.