82 replies to this topic

[Rhaelcan]

Ttly, on 12 November 2025 - 08:08 PM, said:

Really? No more +MG RoF on the TBR-Prime of all things to remove?
Anyone putting up MGs there in the first place (which I do) pretty much consigned to them being deadweight (that could've went to another heat sink) for most of a match.
At least let it keep the +RoF for H/MGs but not LMGs (because we can't have additional 2DPS by grouping them with ERMLs apparently), the +RoF only ever adds up to them having the DPS of 3MGs anyway since there's only 2 mounts.
And frankly even with it, I seriously doubt people would actually even use the TBR-Prime So8 over the same ECMLaservomit mixpod still.
Oh also the missile spread buff is welcome I guess.

75t Stalker looks pretty bad when it hardly has much over the IS Marauder which actually does have almost as good front hitbox (and more hitpoints) though worse weapon placement, especially with that lack of quirks.
At least it has more hardpoints?

AMS buff is eeeh, well at least there's the LRM velocity buff (or rather reverting the nerf from couple years back) as well.
They (AMS) are in this awkward spot of being a waste of tonnage due to how weak LRMs are in the first place, but then also they're pretty effective at doing their thing anyway?
Also you missed the KFX-C/WLF-1B/SMN-D as far as AMS quirks go, but whatever I guess.

TNS-4P losing LRM velo is just why? I have seriously never seen one in the first place, let alone one that actually uses them. Also it only has 1 missile just like the BKL-E which has a similar gimmick sans ECM+JJ and being slow.

The LPPC Black Knight returning is pretty much admission that last month's nerf/removal was a screw up too.

The ERLL changes are eeeh, still probably less effective in actual play than HLL/BLCs anyway, don't really like the range nerf which are their whole shtick even if the range is still overkill for most maps anyway.
Also annoyed at the shift towards more alpha over DPS again.

Railgun charge nerf is okay I guess, makes putting them on the same weapon group as lasers (and shooting it mid-burn) to not be as snappy.

Still wish C-AC10 got its 2burst removed and its HSL buff from last year reverted.

No one is ever happy, apparently.

mayakashiii, on 13 November 2025 - 12:26 AM, said:

Those changes look random. Do the inventors of this mess even play the game?

Yes, cauldron play the game.

[pbiggz]

mayakashiii, on 13 November 2025 - 12:26 AM, said:

Those changes look random. Do the inventors of this mess even play the game?

BlueDevilspawn is literally in the thread explaining the cauldron justification for the changes.

Ttly, on 13 November 2025 - 01:14 AM, said:

No! Can't you see?
They're trying to "pull back some weapons that have been dominant in the meta for too long and reduce some more oppressive ranged archetypes in quickplay."
By buffing AC/LB/UAC 2 and 5 because sniping damage farming assaults with 8AC2/6AC5s like the Bane, Sovereign, or the mixpod DWF-C which aren't good enough apparently.
Yeah.
Maybe there's a point if it's comparing to something like HAG80 Maul?
To be fair, the LB buffs seems decent to differentiate them from STD AC and to make up for being spread weapons with more DPS and even less heat.

At least there's the IS AC20 range buff and the IS SRM ammo buff, also the +10% velo to LRM which was a reversal of a nerf from 2 years ago.

Still would've prefered specific variant quirk buffs rather than heavy handed approach of changing the equipment themselves though.

This is why we dont get to ever have nice things. Y'all hate this game the way it is, and when it gets changed, you hate the change. You can't have your cake and eat it too.

[BlueDevilspawn]

Bud Crue, on 13 November 2025 - 04:38 AM, said:

I get taking away the Jester's AMS bonus in light of the broader AMS changes, but c'mon, is it really a concern that a the Jester's 10% AMS range bonus is going to be OP, game breaking, give an unfair advantage, or whatever the criteria is for justifying such a change? It's such a mid-mech these days, and that little buff is about the only reason to bother taking AMS on it.

I can't imagine anyone, even a dedicated LRM player thinking: "Oh no, there's Jester(s) on the other team and they appear to actually have AMS equipped! Drats! I guess I won't be able to get any damage due to its unfair 10% AMS range bonus giving their team an umbrella of AMS coverage far beyond that of what other AMS mechs could provide! This is such BS, why won't the Cauldron fix this?! Oh wait, that's right, they took that OP 10% range bonus away!! No more umbrella effect cover for you, dastardly Jester teammates! HA! Hold locks and thank the Cauldron for the coming RAIN!!!!"

I mean seriously. It's a 10% AMS range bonus. Sigh.

It (and the velo and artemis velo buff) are meant to bring more consistency to LRMs. Multiple AMS hardpoint mechs are difficult to balance that ecosystem around, hence their range nerf. FWIW the AMS changes still make them more powerful overall. AMS gets a 15% lethality buff and LAMS gets a 57% buff. The area denial impact of AMS (like ECM once upon a time) is reduced. As for why not the SMN-D it's because I run that mech for the 3 ERPPC (using the torsos and CT quirk) build using other pods, not so8 so that's less concerning.

Regardless even with the velo changes and AMS buff I will likely take exactly 0 AMS because I continue to use the most guaranteed damage debuff.... positioning and hard cover.

Edited by BlueDevilspawn, 13 November 2025 - 11:05 AM.

[Samziel]

Ttly, on 12 November 2025 - 09:50 PM, said:

+100% velo on LRM (pushing them to 300-400ish) has been proven to be a non-issue for tracking, it only showed up to be an issue with the initial BKL-E buff that put it up at +400% that placed them at 1000ish velo that shows that.
Ideally I'd say there should be a test server to see at what velocity threshold does it actually break rather than this whole thing.
Anyway, saying that +100% on the TNS-4P breaks it (and it losing it ENTIRELY to be a buff) is just such a weird thing to say knowing that.

Proven, where?

Levitas made a nice video showcasing the bug with Thanatos:

You can also edit the mech in store and go try it yourself in testing grounds, though as its client side its not as reliable as a lobby. Unskilled it will miss lights that are standing still when direct fired. I have a feeling it will miss bigger mechs that are running towards you too.

I guess they didnt leave LRMs any velocity because its a bad weapon choice for the mech regardless.

Ttly, on 13 November 2025 - 01:14 AM, said:

No! Can't you see?
They're trying to "pull back some weapons that have been dominant in the meta for too long and reduce some more oppressive ranged archetypes in quickplay."
By buffing AC/LB/UAC 2 and 5 because sniping damage farming assaults with 8AC2/6AC5s like the Bane, Sovereign, or the mixpod DWF-C which aren't good enough apparently.
Yeah.
Maybe there's a point if it's comparing to something like HAG80 Maul?
To be fair, the LB buffs seems decent to differentiate them from STD AC and to make up for being spread weapons with more DPS and even less heat.

At least there's the IS AC20 range buff and the IS SRM ammo buff, also the +10% velo to LRM which was a reversal of a nerf from 2 years ago.

Still would've prefered specific variant quirk buffs rather than heavy handed approach of changing the equipment themselves though.

Gotta agree with the Sovereign at least. DWF is still a big box that dies when looked at and Bane is probably the glassiest cannon out there.

But it is easier to avoid damage from DPS sniper than burst one. If you get plinked from afar by ac2s, getting to cover doesnt cost you as much health.

Edited by Samziel, 13 November 2025 - 11:33 AM.

[Mkv122]

What about new loyality Timber? Interesting omnipods?

[Ttly]

Samziel, on 13 November 2025 - 11:20 AM, said:

Proven, where?

Levitas made a nice video showcasing the bug with Thanatos:

Alright, but then why lose the +velo ENTIRELY then? Just lower it to +50% or something like giving it as much -spread (LRM specific if you don't want it to work with MRMs) quirk as the BKL-E.
Also it wasn't an issue on the current BKL-E (which is where it was proven if you read what I said by the way) which also has +100% (and 57% -spread) in my experience.


The video also has the distance from target to be pretty close at 300m and 200m.

Edited by Ttly, 13 November 2025 - 12:59 PM.

[a 5 year old with an Uzi]

Mkv122, on 13 November 2025 - 11:28 AM, said:

What about new loyality Timber? Interesting omnipods?

Ballistic STs and cool paint

[Ttly]

pbiggz, on 13 November 2025 - 10:51 AM, said:

BlueDevilspawn is literally in the thread explaining the cauldron justification for the changes.

This is why we dont get to ever have nice things. Y'all hate this game the way it is, and when it gets changed, you hate the change. You can't have your cake and eat it too.

Explaining them poorly sure.
And calling bad changes to be as such isn't hating the game.

BlueDevilspawn, on 13 November 2025 - 10:59 AM, said:

It (and the velo and artemis velo buff) are meant to bring more consistency to LRMs. Multiple AMS hardpoint mechs are difficult to balance that ecosystem around, hence their range nerf. FWIW the AMS changes still make them more powerful overall. AMS gets a 15% lethality buff and LAMS gets a 57% buff. The area denial impact of AMS (like ECM once upon a time) is reduced. As for why not the SMN-D it's because I run that mech for the 3 ERPPC (using the torsos and CT quirk) build using other pods, not so8 so that's less concerning.

Regardless even with the velo changes and AMS buff I will likely take exactly 0 AMS because I continue to use the most guaranteed damage debuff.... positioning and hard cover.

I mean what is this?
"I don't run it that way (SMN-D 2AMS) so it's not my concern" followed by "AMS sucks (after opening with the AMS changes being a buff) anyway because cover/positioning" (and R.dep/ECM I might add)

If that really is the case, why is it their concern that the TBR-Prime loses its +MG RoF? Or the Jester with its AMS quirk? What, because they actually run them with MG and AMS?
Or maybe it's to implicitly chide those people that actually dare to run them suboptimally like that at all because how dare they apparently.

Oh also I find it rather comical to be okay with the 3PPC SMN-D (I'm personally partial to the So8 3HLL/ERLL instead) but we can't have buffs to the Vapor Eagle apparently, not even one that pushes it away from being anything other than PPC poptart.

Edited by Ttly, 13 November 2025 - 12:58 PM.

[Pz_DC]

IMHO this is one of the worst content patches ever - 1st - too many changes, 2nd - most of them is useless. IS AC20 was fine, It has same range profile with ML/SRM/SNPPC now it dosn't. WHY?! All IS AC was fine, why change them?! Feel it weak - add more ammo per ton, it will fix a lot of their problems! BL-7KNT....it's a joke, right? You removed LPPC quirk last patch and now return it?... Does it mean you didnt even test patch changes before reliase? Looks like so, becouse: ER LL HSL+1 now 6 while there is one single IS mech with "direct" ER LL HSL quirk and it's MAD-9M with 4 energy slots... Other mechs? But do we rly need ER LL buff this way?.. I dont think so, coz even then it's too weak compared to BLC. Sniping with LL? Bad idea coz all with see where you hide by laser beam... I dont know what you was aimed to get with all those changes, rly... If I'm wrong then sorry, but now my *** is burnings somewhere around saturn or even far... So many changes, and most of them are bad, just bad, like it was made by AI... Sorry guys, I love your work, but this time, IMHO, you need to say "We was wrong, sorry. But we will do our best to dont fail so hard next time"...

Edited by Pz_DC, 13 November 2025 - 01:24 PM.

[pbiggz]

Ttly, on 13 November 2025 - 12:15 PM, said:

Explaining them poorly sure.

he's not, you just dont like what you're hearing.

Quote

And calling bad changes to be as such isn't hating the game.

When every change is a bad change to you, maybe the problem isnt the changes, maybe the problem is you

Ttly, on 13 November 2025 - 12:15 PM, said:

Explaining them poorly sure.
And calling bad changes to be as such isn't hating the game.


I mean what is this?
"I don't run it that way (SMN-D 2AMS) so it's not my concern" followed by "AMS sucks (after opening with the AMS changes being a buff) anyway because cover/positioning" (and R.dep/ECM I might add)

If that really is the case, why is it their concern that the TBR-Prime loses its +MG RoF? Or the Jester with its AMS quirk? What, because they actually run them with MG and AMS?
Or maybe it's to implicitly chide those people that actually dare to run them suboptimally like that at all because how dare they apparently.

Oh also I find it rather comical to be okay with the 3PPC SMN-D (I'm personally partial to the So8 3HLL/ERLL instead) but we can't have buffs to the Vapor Eagle apparently, not even one that pushes it away from being anything other than PPC poptart.

Is the Veagle not already one of the best mechs in the game?

[Ttly]

pbiggz, on 13 November 2025 - 01:44 PM, said:

he's not, you just dont like what you're hearing.




When every change is a bad change to you, maybe the problem isnt the changes, maybe the problem is you



Is the Veagle not already one of the best mechs in the game?

Those are very good points! Everything you don't agree with is a problem with the person you're talking to!
And I think you're a speedreader who can't read more than maybe a sentence in paragraph or two, or follow that I actually did praised some of the changes.

Also the VGL while it's "statistically performing well" literally has:
-No weapon or durability quirks
-Only JJ quirks, though backed with decent JJ count.
-Decent hardpoint count (not like anyone uses the missile ones though)
-The WORST agility for a medium in the game (worse than the Summoner, a heavy, by the way)

Maybe try playing it outside of the same PPC poptart build (which is also powercreeped by SMN-D now) and see how terrible it is.
There's an exception with the Rival (MASC, JJs, AND quirks, also better base agility), but even then only thing people runs on it are PPC+APG poptarts.

Edited by Ttly, 13 November 2025 - 02:34 PM.

[LordNothing]

Ttly, on 13 November 2025 - 01:14 AM, said:

No! Can't you see?
They're trying to "pull back some weapons that have been dominant in the meta for too long and reduce some more oppressive ranged archetypes in quickplay."
By buffing AC/LB/UAC 2 and 5 because sniping damage farming assaults with 8AC2/6AC5s like the Bane, Sovereign, or the mixpod DWF-C which aren't good enough apparently.
Yeah.
Maybe there's a point if it's comparing to something like HAG80 Maul?
To be fair, the LB buffs seems decent to differentiate them from STD AC and to make up for being spread weapons with more DPS and even less heat.

At least there's the IS AC20 range buff and the IS SRM ammo buff, also the +10% velo to LRM which was a reversal of a nerf from 2 years ago.

Still would've prefered specific variant quirk buffs rather than heavy handed approach of changing the equipment themselves though.

the lbs have needed buffs since as long as there have been lbs. two sources of damage attenuation i never felt were properly compensated for in the other stats. the 2s have always been defacto dps weapons even when boated. so seeing their dps go up is kind of nice.

i dont really understand the ac5 sidegrade though, especially since i mostly use lac5s these days. 5-boats have always been strong (except lb5s which i mostly considered useless, until now), especially in quantities of 4+, but ac5s are generally weak otherwise, and its easier to boat lac5s. exchanging dps for heat kind of buffs the boats and weakens the small guncount builds. seems the opposite of what you want to go for.

ac20 range buffs make me want to use those more. i usually just go with uac10s instead for the range and similar damage. i feel like so long as ac20s are as good as ac10s at ac10 ranges they are somewhat useful if not efficient with ammo. so that range buff helps.

[TheMechHorrorShow]

rly? nerf the corsair 7a?..... sad....

[pbiggz]

Ttly, on 13 November 2025 - 02:22 PM, said:

Those are very good points! Everything you don't agree with is a problem with the person you're talking to!
And I think you're a speedreader who can't read more than maybe a sentence in paragraph or two, or follow that I actually did praised some of the changes.

That doesnt win you points when you're being an insufferable victim baby.

Ttly, on 13 November 2025 - 02:22 PM, said:

Also the VGL while it's "statistically performing well" literally has:
-No weapon or durability quirks

Doesn't need em.

Ttly, on 13 November 2025 - 02:22 PM, said:

-The WORST agility for a medium in the game (worse than the Summoner, a heavy, by the way)

Because its a 55 ton jumping clan gunboat and its a battlemech.

Ttly, on 13 November 2025 - 02:22 PM, said:

Maybe try playing it outside of the same PPC poptart build (which is also powercreeped by SMN-D now) and see how terrible it is.

I dont typically play poptarts. Also poptarting has been de-facto verboten since 2013.

[Ttly]

pbiggz, on 13 November 2025 - 03:54 PM, said:

That doesnt win you points when you're being an insufferable victim baby.

Sure sure whatever, you haven't played on that account in the last 8 months too.

[pbiggz]

Ttly, on 13 November 2025 - 03:57 PM, said:

Sure sure whatever, you haven't played on that account in the last 8 months too.

played last week

[Ghost of Eden]

Not at all fond of the AMS changes. It seems like it's increasingly being made into a "personal use only" placebo that doesn't really reward for the investment. I can understand why it might be difficult to balance outliers like the -7A, but I'd hoped to see AMS remain as a tool that can be used to support/cover others while rewarding the player using them for 'sacrificing' slots and tonnage. Not everyone runs ECM 24/7 and not all players across the entire game are good enough to be masters of positioning at all times across all maps.

[TELEFORCE]

Mkv122, on 13 November 2025 - 11:28 AM, said:

What about new loyality Timber? Interesting omnipods?

It's based on its original illustration from Technical Readout 3050 by Steve Venters where the "N" loadout matches the art 1 for 1 unlike the actual stats for the Prime config in the TRO.

Edited by TELEFORCE, 13 November 2025 - 07:09 PM.

[Rhaelcan]

Pz_DC, on 13 November 2025 - 12:38 PM, said:

IMHO this is one of the worst content patches ever - 1st - too many changes, 2nd - most of them is useless. IS AC20 was fine, It has same range profile with ML/SRM/SNPPC now it dosn't. WHY?! All IS AC was fine, why change them?! Feel it weak - add more ammo per ton, it will fix a lot of their problems! BL-7KNT....it's a joke, right? You removed LPPC quirk last patch and now return it?... Does it mean you didnt even test patch changes before reliase? Looks like so, becouse: ER LL HSL+1 now 6 while there is one single IS mech with "direct" ER LL HSL quirk and it's MAD-9M with 4 energy slots... Other mechs? But do we rly need ER LL buff this way?.. I dont think so, coz even then it's too weak compared to BLC. Sniping with LL? Bad idea coz all with see where you hide by laser beam... I dont know what you was aimed to get with all those changes, rly... If I'm wrong then sorry, but now my *** is burnings somewhere around saturn or even far... So many changes, and most of them are bad, just bad, like it was made by AI... Sorry guys, I love your work, but this time, IMHO, you need to say "We was wrong, sorry. But we will do our best to dont fail so hard next time"...

They legit dont have a playtest server, so no, they cant

[Saved By The Bell]

Keep cats and monkeys out of server room.