950 replies to this topic

[ORIGINAL SteelWolf]

Feindfeuer, on 31 July 2012 - 01:43 AM, said:

Not true, the noble Tetatae are a sentinent species that is part of the BT canon


edit: though the existance of the Tetatae could be considered a ridiculous Battletech fact.

Chicken tasting yes, but NOT canon.

[Bloodweaver]

Theodor Kling, on 03 August 2012 - 11:49 PM, said:

But vaccuum is fine. Heat sinks work just like real ones, sure there is a cooling liquid ciculating inside. But if it´s air or hard vacuum outside.. both work. Sure, vacuum is an even worse heat conductor then air. But the temperature difference between the heat sinks surface and the vacuum is so much higher, that it should make up for it.
And covection is only needed in ari sicne air is already a bad conductor and just heatign up a different batch of air is better then waiting for the heat from your original batch to dissipate.

It is incorrect -well, misinformed- to say that a vacuum conducts heat worse than air does. Fact is, it doesn't conduct at all. Vacuum = nothing. Heat can't be conducted if there's nothing there to conduct it. There would also not really be a temperature "difference" between the heat sinks' surface and the vacuum, because the vacuum doesn't have a temperature - no molecules means no heat. This is why thermos bottles work; a vacuum makes for an excellent insulator.

The only way to transfer heat through a vacuum is via radiation, which takes a very, very, very, VERY long time. Heat sinks would not function in a vacuum to any discernible degree -period- unless they were the laser type developed by Jade Falcon, since they release their "heat" via light.

[Dimael]

To make this clear. Temperature is nothing more than the energy of moving molecules and atoms. No Atoms, no temperature. That simple.

[Elessar]

Bloodweaver, on 04 August 2012 - 12:50 AM, said:

...

The only way to transfer heat through a vacuum is via radiation, which takes a very, very, very, VERY long time. Heat sinks would not function in a vacuum to any discernible degree -period- unless they were the laser type developed by Jade Falcon, since they release their "heat" via light.

The Battletech sourcebooks say exactly that (i.e. that in vacuum heatsinks get rid of the heat via radiation)

[Feindfeuer]

ORIGINAL SteelWolf, on 04 August 2012 - 12:42 AM, said:

Chicken tasting yes, but NOT canon.

Why are they not canon? They are part of an official novel, though many people dont want it to be true, the Teatae are canon. Though i agree that they are on a far away planet that you can only reach via a missjump, so they are not realy interacting with anyone but those who are stranded on their homeworld, they are part of the Battletech universe and canon.

[Theodor Kling]

Jebediah Saint, on 03 August 2012 - 11:53 PM, said:

wait...what? its not the 31st mellinium, its like, the 22nd or someting. year 3049 or so. youre thinking warhammer 40,000.

31st century/ 4th millenium.

Bloodweaver, on 04 August 2012 - 12:50 AM, said:

It is incorrect -well, misinformed- to say that a vacuum conducts heat worse than air does. Fact is, it doesn't conduct at all. Vacuum = nothing. Heat can't be conducted if there's nothing there to conduct it. There would also not really be a temperature "difference" between the heat sinks' surface and the vacuum, because the vacuum doesn't have a temperature - no molecules means no heat. This is why thermos bottles work; a vacuum makes for an excellent insulator.

The only way to transfer heat through a vacuum is via radiation, which takes a very, very, very, VERY long time. Heat sinks would not function in a vacuum to any discernible degree -period- unless they were the laser type developed by Jade Falcon, since they release their "heat" via light.

Yeah radiation is less efficient . On the other hand interplanetary space is not exactly vacuum either... hard to judge what would actually happen. But since todays manned spacecraft invest quite some effort in insulation to keep the warmth in the cabin, getting rid of heat in space seems not to be the problem... if you are on the shadow side of a larger structure . On the sunny side you might get roasted without even firering a single samll laser.

[Monolith]

Brenden, on 31 July 2012 - 09:01 PM, said:

- A gauss rifle's ammunition is non-explosive, but when the weapon is hit it explodes like an internal ammo explosion

Apparently, this is because the charged capacitors used to power the railgun will explode when hit, causing damage similar to that of an internal ammunition explosion, thus destroying the weapon and usually anything near it.

[Octavian Dibar]

Lunareclipse, on 03 August 2012 - 07:46 PM, said:

I'm not sure if I remember this correctly, but on the orbital bombardment thing, I think there was some treaty signed by all the member states of the Star League banning both orbital bombardment and the use of WMDs, and the legacy of this treaty is that all wars in the Inner Sphere are fought by conventional forces. There are times that it's been broken, but it seems the exception rather than the rule.

I'm going to try and find it on sarna.

Edit: Okay, I can't find anything specific, but there are numerous traties and accords that are just stubs on that wiki, and any one of them could be this... or I might be entirely wrong.

Quietly Crazy, on 03 August 2012 - 09:22 PM, said:

Lunar, I believe you're talking about the Ares conventions...if I recall correctly (and I probably don't), the basic point of it was to reduce losses to basic industry and civilian life. Which is why most of the battles took place in the middle of forests or plains or deserts or canyons.

You're correct. Nuclear arms and orbital bombardment were banned by the Ares Conventions (Articles I and II, respectively). Urban warfare was restricted by Article V. It was signed before the fall of the Star League, and was largely ignored (it was technically rescinded by the Star League just before it's collapse) during the First Succession War, and somewhat into the second war. Even into the third and fourth wars, parts of it were considered more of a "guildeline" than the law. The restrictions on urban warfare were largely ignored throughout the Succession Wars, as there was a fairly broad exclusion in the restriction.

"Article V -- Urban Warfare Restrictions
No battle shall be waged in an urban area except under extreme circumstances. If the military objective of an assault lies in a city center, attacking troops must ensure that any hostile action taken causes the least possible amount of collateral damage. No attack may be made against any civilian target, for any reason. Civilian targets shall be deemed to include such life-supporting equipment such as water and air purifiers, agricultural assets, or any other item that enables a planet's population to continue their existence."

Underline is mine. You can probably define each Sucession War an "extreme circumstance". ; )

"Law stands mute in the midst of arms."
-Cicero

[2ane]

Quietly Crazy, on 31 July 2012 - 12:36 AM, said:

-Though the entire galaxy has been searched, only the human race managed to become sentient. No other star system produced what can be considered even semi-intelligent life.

this is actually a realistic part of Battletech as the sphere of human influence spans only a small part of the galaxy and if there were sentient life on those planets we would know by now.

[Helbourne]

Yeah Battletech technology has always made me wonder and chuckle a bit. I mean the main cannon on the M1A2 Abrams tank has an effective range of what 4000m. That is 2.5 miles. In game table top game terms you need at least 8 maps, 9 if you want the tank to be on a map. I would think that 4000m would be medium range for it, cause what ammo they use would determine max range (like laser guided rounds). Plus why are the targeting computers so stupid in battletech? I mean why does a computer take so much weight and space? clan TC = 1 ton and 1 crit slot for every 5 tons of equipment (rounded up), Inner Sphere is 1 ton and 1 crit for every 4 tons of equipment (rounded up). I mean come on now, how big are these computers and what do they use to make them?

[Adridos]

Well, it's still better than a game that tries to really predict how will warfare look in the 31st century and thus make it all about firing something that completely annihilates the enemy star systems away.

[Dark Puppy]

Lunareclipse, on 03 August 2012 - 07:46 PM, said:

I'm not sure if I remember this correctly, but on the orbital bombardment thing, I think there was some treaty signed by all the member states of the Star League banning both orbital bombardment and the use of WMDs, and the legacy of this treaty is that all wars in the Inner Sphere are fought by conventional forces. There are times that it's been broken, but it seems the exception rather than the rule.

I'm going to try and find it on sarna.

Edit: Okay, I can't find anything specific, but there are numerous traties and accords that are just stubs on that wiki, and any one of them could be this... or I might be entirely wrong.

Ares Conventions sorta like the Geneva Conventions only not as retarded.

[Elessar]

Helbourne, on 04 August 2012 - 06:24 AM, said:

Yeah Battletech technology has always made me wonder and chuckle a bit. I mean the main cannon on the M1A2 Abrams tank has an effective range of what 4000m. That is 2.5 miles. In game table top game terms you need at least 8 maps, 9 if you want the tank to be on a map. I would think that 4000m would be medium range for it, cause what ammo they use would determine max range (like laser guided rounds). Plus why are the targeting computers so stupid in battletech? I mean why does a computer take so much weight and space? clan TC = 1 ton and 1 crit slot for every 5 tons of equipment (rounded up), Inner Sphere is 1 ton and 1 crit for every 4 tons of equipment (rounded up). I mean come on now, how big are these computers and what do they use to make them?

Here you see a mechwarrior doing standard maintenance on his targeting computer

Edited by Elessar, 04 August 2012 - 06:45 AM.

[Dark Puppy]

Your also ignoring ComStar murdering the **** out of anyone with a science degree after the SLDF left. Cause your cult based on high technology doesn't need ******* scientists. **** those guys and their degrees and understanding of complex ****.

[Theodor Kling]

Dark Puppy, on 04 August 2012 - 06:55 AM, said:

Your also ignoring ComStar murdering the **** out of anyone with a science degree after the SLDF left. Cause your cult based on high technology doesn't need ******* scientists. **** those guys and their degrees and understanding of complex ****.

Thank you for reminding me. I just stated thinking why the hell los tech was lost so long. because rediscovering soemthing youonce had, in some cases with a few still working examples to study should be faster then discovering them from scatch... and with an estimtaat that early 31st century tech there was about the level of 24th to 25th century, they could ahve used the 200 years sicne lostech became lost to rediscover it. Especially with all their wars. History shows, that war, despite all it´s horrible results, usually leads to technological advancement faster then peacetimes. Especially cold wars like most of the time between 2nd and 4th succesion wars.

[Bloodweaver]

Elessar, on 04 August 2012 - 02:04 AM, said:

The Battletech sourcebooks say exactly that (i.e. that in vacuum heatsinks get rid of the heat via radiation)

The problem -and the reason that this gets included in "ridiculous Battletech facts"- is just how inefficient heat loss is via radiation alone. As in, an object loses so little heat in a vacuum that it's negligible. Real-life spaceships have tons of systems dedicated to keeping themselves from roasting in their own crews' body heat. A heat sink simply wouldn't be efficient in a vacuum, whether or not it loses heat by radiation, because heat loss by radiation is itself inefficient. Since conduction and convection are both much more efficient, your Battlemech is going to be more effective at retaining its own heat than it will be at losing it. It's made of metal, after all... And even if a heat sink somehow did magically lose heat by radiation rapidly, it wouldn't then become more effective in arctic environments, because that is a result of conduction and convection. So there's a conflict, even assuming magic exists in BT.

Theodor Kling, on 04 August 2012 - 03:01 AM, said:

Yeah radiation is less efficient . On the other hand interplanetary space is not exactly vacuum either... hard to judge what would actually happen. But since todays manned spacecraft invest quite some effort in insulation to keep the warmth in the cabin, getting rid of heat in space seems not to be the problem... if you are on the shadow side of a larger structure . On the sunny side you might get roasted without even firering a single samll laser.

It's not hard to judge at all. We've been to interplanetary space in real life, so we have our own experiences to go on. Although there are bits of dust here and there, the density thereof is so low that the only way we can say it's not "exactly" a vacuum, is if we're being extremely **** with our word definitions. For all intents and purposes, it's a vacuum. Even the dense and dangerous asteroid belts popularly portrayed in movies and videogames are, in real life, pretty much vast expanses of nothing with bits of rock here and there.

And going on our own experiences tells us that you won't be cooling off in space very easily. Today's manned spacecraft invest effort in keeping themselves cool, not in keeping themselves warm. This is a common misconception, but a Google search should correct it within a few seconds They lose heat very, very slowly - so slowly that we may as well simply say that they don't lose heat at all. Being in direct sunlight is even worse, obviously, but by no means necessary for overheating to occur.

Anyway, some more BT ridiculousness, using numbers:
A machine gun that can only fire 90 meters -just under 300 feet- weighs 1,000 pounds.

A one-shot missile launcher weighs half a ton more than a standard launcher of the same size.

An 80-ton (any tonnage applies) Omnimech cannot exceed that weight with installed equipment - but can, despite being loaded to full tonnage, then carry multiple Elementals on its chassis, pick up dismembered limbs weighing several tons, or use jump jets causing it to impact with a force several times its own weight when it lands.

Theodor Kling, on 04 August 2012 - 07:20 AM, said:

Thank you for reminding me. I just stated thinking why the hell los tech was lost so long. because rediscovering soemthing youonce had, in some cases with a few still working examples to study should be faster then discovering them from scatch... and with an estimtaat that early 31st century tech there was about the level of 24th to 25th century, they could ahve used the 200 years sicne lostech became lost to rediscover it. Especially with all their wars. History shows, that war, despite all it´s horrible results, usually leads to technological advancement faster then peacetimes. Especially cold wars like most of the time between 2nd and 4th succesion wars.

This is actually the end-all winner of ridiculousness in the BT universe, for me - the idea that war leads to technological loss. Whereas our own history has shown time and time again that what actually occurs is the exact opposite. The thing is, though, at least this one piece of ridiculousness has a given explanation - ComStar. Not saying it's a particularly convincing explanation, but at least it's there...

[Bloodweaver]

Also: Free societies breed intelligence, whereas militaristic ones lower educational standards. Another element in BT for which we don't see much evidence in real life.

Edited by Bloodweaver, 04 August 2012 - 08:14 AM.

[Brenden]

- No one has made a 'mech heavier than 100 tons (Ares doesn't count)
- They still give you the option to eject in a vaccum
- They have computers, ships that can travel space and walking coffins, but no cup holders for said coffins?
- Where is my cosmic horror?

[Bloodweaver]

This one is more of a general sci-fi thing than BT-specific, but it's just as bad there as anywhere else:
Most planets have a single climate. You get arctic planets, desert planets, grasslands planets, etc... Guess Earth is pretty damn special...

[Elessar]

Brenden, on 04 August 2012 - 08:08 AM, said:

...
- Where is my cosmic horror?

Azathoth?
Doesn´t he lurk outside of the known universe?

Edited by Elessar, 04 August 2012 - 08:18 AM.