84 replies to this topic

[Fiachdubh]

If people are playing Clans without trials they are there for the wrong reason (the tech). Love the whole trial and bloodname systems. My God was I crapping myself before my ToP and Bloodname trials.

Stormwolf, on 15 January 2012 - 06:29 AM, said:

trials should be ingame.

That I would be fantastic. Cut out a lot of the lazy people who just want the better tech is they know they would have to work for it first.

Edited by Fiachdubh, 24 January 2012 - 06:08 PM.

[Trireaper]

I say, make it an optional event that happens one weekend a month. That way, you can still play and do the trials and get the glory from them, or simply not do it and continue destroying mechs in your own fashion.

[Aaron DeChavilier]

if everyone wants ToP so darn much then why not have ToP give quicker access to the best models?

perhaps non-ToP clan players would get second line and IS refit mechs (the IIC stuff)? (which to me have always been cooler )
then one could go further and say 'totem' mechs would require even more trials?

so to get a Timber Wolf, you'd need a ToP...or play non-ToP and settle with a second-line/reft mech.
This way, the munchkins get their toys, but the 'true' clan players get the omnis.

[Casca]

Xavier Truscott, on 15 January 2012 - 11:07 AM, said:

What both these trial threads come down to, is that you want an RPG version of Mechwarrior. I can understand and relate to that, always loved a good RPG. What you don't seem to understand, is that this is not an RPG, and roleplaying should be a choice for you to play out in forums, maybe in battle with your particular unit and group of friends, and in the creation of fan fiction. In order to be successful, all options should be available to all players, the restrictions on clan units being imposed by developer created in game balance, not by picking and choosing who can actually participate in the lore/RPG vision you all seem to have for the clans.

What you don't seem to understand that a Trial of Position doesn't have to be a role play element. Players will be granted ranks based on gameplay. This will effect access to certain rewards, privileges and bonuses. Furthermore they will permit players to join exclusive units within particular factions.

The Trial of Position would simply be a gameplay mechanic based on the other mechanics already implemented in the game. To achieve rank in a clan faction one would have to engage in a short battle to represent that portion of clan society. Even though the lore is not as important to an FPS as it is to an RPG. An FPS based on an older game, with grognards and nerds as its fan base, using a slew of factions, rewards based on faction loyalty, and a history of intrinsic imbalance between faction equipment, some manner of representation would be well served.

A Trial doesn't have to be a terribly complex Role Play event. It could just be a short engagement with victory conditions. Upon completion, the player would advance in rank and receive all the bonuses conferred up on the player based on their loyalty to the faction. Without some differentiation between Clan and Inner Sphere gameplay, there is little point in adding Clan factions. Again. It would be based completely in the mechanics of the game. No role play, no lore, no walls of text. Pure gameplay.

Of course it would be conducive to roleplayers but in a game, with some semblance of a persistent world, custom loadouts, loyalty-based character development, lack of flavour could diminish the effect it has.

[ilkhan]

I think Trials of Entry to clans would be bad, however Bloodname trials would be awesome. Each clan has it's own list of bloodnames and they are allowed 25 of each so that's a lot of players. They would have to either restrict usernames to exclude bloodnames or have it appended on someones name in such a way it was clearly not just part of their username (yes I have seen mine, I will be creating a new account when the game goes live once I have thought of a more sensible name).

I would expect them to have a minimum faction loyalty rating to be allowed to challenge for a bloodname(s) and maybe rotate which bloodname is being challenged each week.

Anyone got any other ideas?

[Conjure]

I feel if you keep the inner sphere mechs just as competitive when the clans come into play there will not be an issue. This can be acheived through fair matchups or mech specs. I have a tough time seeing an unbalanced amounts of players hopping over to the clan side on dime. Sure there are a ton of clan fans. However there are many innersphere fans and players that will have worked with there factions a long time. I think many of those players that have put in good work somewhere and built some ties will stay with innersphere factions.

If trails were to be part of the clan system I think there could be a lot of fun mechanics to it. Clans could become the more competitive arena for hardcore players.

Have trials to decide what tech you as a player can use.

Trials for leadership of factions and blood names.

Trials to decide future matches.

Lower number of drops on a map agaisnt innersphere 5v8 or something of the like. Make match perks for the innersphere players for more balance.

[Gaius Kerensky]

I for one support trials of entry and the other trials for clan warriors.... I feel that if you want o play a clan warrior you should stay true to the ideals and standards of the clans which means TOE's for new warriors, Trials of Position/Possession for better tech and positions.... sure its going to come off as elitist... but thats WHY the clans are the best at what they do a society built on warfare, trials and might makes right.... the better warriors survive the weaker ones DIE that is the way of the clans.... natural selection at its finest....

and I AM Star Colonel Gaius Kerensky Commander of the 9th WolfGuard (Artic Wolves) (( a Title, rank and name EARNED playing tabletop Mechwarrior/Battletech at Gencon in 2002 ))

[Gaius Kerensky]

inherently unless the IS salvages the tech from the battlefield the tech they have will ALWAYS be inferior to clan tech REGARDLESS of the mech being used.....so limiting tech is not going to be a good option for clan players.... you want better mechs a Trial of possession would be in order... want a better rank trial of position would be in order... want a bloodname Trial of Bloodright would be in order..... how hard would it be to impliment these four distinct yet slightly different trials.... Trial of entry, the trial you participate in to enter the clan as a warrior, kill one eemy you are a warrior kill 2 you are a star commander kill 3 you are a star captain, from there you can extrapolate on the rest of the trials you will have to face as you progress.... rank has benefits.... higher rank means better gear.... oh hey one of your starmates is piloting a mech you covet... hmmm Trial of possession for the mech seat..... you think you can lead better than your current commander Trial of position/possession for the rank.....anyone in the clan warrior society can be challenged in this way.....make it so.... and eventually you will be left with the true warriors of each clan and no some IS posers that just want the better tech.....

[Xavier Truscott]

You people are persistant about your desires for trials. My proposal then, would be that you have to use an IS tech mech in your Trial of Entry against clan tech opponents. If you can manage that, then i suppose it would be an accurate trial, and prove that you do deserve to be a clanner. Otherwise, what sort of piloting skills are you really showing off, besides that you can use equal tech to beat equal tech, make it a challenge will ya....

[FireNova]

[Gaius Kerensky]

Trial of entry looks something like this... and Im taking this DIRECTLY from the Pryde Trilogy of Fiction Books

the warrior in question takes his trial in a mech and faces 3 opponents, the 1st opponent is usually either in a slightly lighter mech or a lighter class cassis, the second opponent will be in an equal weight class mech or identical chassis(different weapons load) and the final opponent is in a larget chassis the example is Aidan Pryde... Piloted a Summoner (Thor) his 3 opponents were a Hellbringer (Loki) a Summoner (Thor) and if memory serves me correctly a Gargoyle (Man-O-War).... to say take the trial in an IS mech vs clan tech would be monumentally stupid as there will be no real display of skill considering that a clan mech of equal size and mass will wipe the ground with it's IS counterpart no matter who the pilot is even if it was Natashia Kerensky herself she in her IS warhammer would get smoked by a compitent pilot in a Summoner

[Karyudo ds]

Random thought; Trials of Position require you to defeat opponents to rank, grind games require you to gain xp (often by killing opponents) to rank up. So you get your trials either way yay!

Bloodname and entry though might make sense... really depends on how they handle NPC opponents if ever. Having to play as OpFor in ToPs every 5 minutes seems like an odd use of time but I suppose in these games lots of things are.

[Gaius Kerensky]

well I like the whole trial idea ect ect ect it falls in line with the Cannon of the clans but I honestly believe that implimenting such a thing is going to be a programmers nightmare

[Maurice]

Trials yes if you want to play as a clansmen +when the clans do come remenber its 1star = 2compays of House mechs so enjoy

[Jack Gallows]

Stormwolf, on 15 January 2012 - 06:29 AM, said:

I think that it will be divided by faction. The LC won't be fielding any Dragons or Hatamoto-Chi's any time soon.

Dev's confirmed that every faction has equal access to everything, including 'mechs. So, you can have any 'mech you want regardless of who you're fighting for.

As for Trials... (and I preface, that I'm discussing for the good of Clan players new, old, and those in the future, to be constructive.)

No Trial of Entry. This is nonsense, and people should have equal opportunity to play any faction they want, without someone telling them they can or cannot join the Clans should they want to be a Clan pilot. Limiting access is a good way to turn people away from MW:O, and you don't want that. A big question, for this kind of trial and for any kind of trial, is how they'd be handled.

We have no information that there's going to be anything but player versus player interaction, so no NPC 'mech involvement. They'd have to make a system for the Trial, and players would have to fight the person intending to join the Clans...what is the criteria of who fights the new warrior? While you guys may love your Clan lore, some of it has to be left behind for the sake of the game, and this Trial is a perfect example.

Trial of Position runs into a similar problem if you want it to dictate rank (which I'm most definitely not sure it should in MW:O,) based on...who are they going to fight? Why should you be able to skip ranks when the IS players cannot? I know it's Clan lore...but there is balancing issues to be considered. Some ideas here have some interesting ideas, and it's good it's being discussed, but I see a lot of issues with having a system in place for you to jump rank without loyalty points like an Inner Sphere Mechwarrior. Clan Mechwarrior should gain loyalty points to their Clan like an IS warrior does to their faction, with certain ranks unlocking based on how much loyalty you have. Trials of Positions should unlock at a specific rank, and basically add an XP bonus based on performance, assuming they can work out how to do this fairly. You may not gain ranks, but you'd get a nice little boost to the next rank depending on how good you are. Or they could be used to see if you're allowed to join X unit in a Clan Touman.

Bloodname trials would be interesting, if they can figure out how to implement any kind of trial, but without the numerical limitaiton of only having X amount of said bloodname. Sorry Kerensky wannbes (because that right now is what EVERYONE is,) no hogging the 13ish Kerensky Bloodnames and locking the rest of the thousands of other players out.

Concerning ranks, it's probably best if they lock out Khan and SaKhan (and Ilkhan, obviously,) and for bidding, well, that all depends if we've got blind drops or not.

There's a lot of speculation here because we simply don't know enough about the game, but some things can be easily shot down as being unfair overall, and while I'd like an awesomely detailed experience for Clan warriors, some things are going to have to scale back for the sake of the game overall. A LOT of this hinges on how they handle NPCs and how they'd approach keeping fights from being so lopsided that an individual has no chance...we aren't genetically bred warriors, we're people with RL obligations or don't have the time to invest in developing to be the best of the best...or just don't play on the same level...and locking people out because of that is a good way to let elitism in and destroy what could be a healthy game.

Edited by Jack Gallows, 16 February 2012 - 04:57 PM.

[Sug]

ilkhan, on 09 February 2012 - 02:15 PM, said:

Each clan has it's own list of bloodnames and they are allowed 25 of each so that's a lot of players.

The only problem I see with a set number of bloodnames is that no one will ever die. According to sarna.net:
"682 [bloodnames] exist prior to the Annihilation of Clan Smoke Jaguar"

So 682 x 25 = 17,050 total names.

Depending on how many players MWO gets and how many go clan I see 2 things happening:

1) Low clan population = Everyone will have a bloodname

2) High clan population = All the bloodnames get taken, no one ever dies, no one new ever gets a bloodname.

I see could something like the bloodname houses existing, almost like clans within the clans. Example: You are part of Clan Wolf, you fight a trial to join House Ward, which has it's own standards of who they accept. You win the Trial and get to add Ward after your name.

Maybe there has to be a min of 25 players in a house, but they are free to expand if they want? I dunno.

Guess we'll have to wait and see how the clans are implemented.

Edited by Sug, 16 February 2012 - 04:40 PM.

[Fury1]

I think its something that should be judged by the Clansmen of the particular Clan one is attempting to join. And your advancement and bloodright should be judged by your conduct on the battlefield. Then you dont have the "got lucky" during a trial

[Jaroth Corbett]

Sug, on 16 February 2012 - 04:39 PM, said:

The only problem I see with a set number of bloodnames is that no one will ever die. According to sarna.net:
"682 [bloodnames] exist prior to the Annihilation of Clan Smoke Jaguar"

So 682 x 25 = 17,050 total names.

Depending on how many players MWO gets and how many go clan I see 2 things happening:

1) Low clan population = Everyone will have a bloodname

2) High clan population = All the bloodnames get taken, no one ever dies, no one new ever gets a bloodname.

I see could something like the bloodname houses existing, almost like clans within the clans. Example: You are part of Clan Wolf, you fight a trial to join House Ward, which has it's own standards of who they accept. You win the Trial and get to add Ward after your name.

Maybe there has to be a min of 25 players in a house, but they are free to expand if they want? I dunno.

Guess we'll have to wait and see how the clans are implemented.

Nobody is going to die anyway unless you kill off your own character. My suggestion regarding Bloodnames can be found here:

http://mwomercs.com/...6241#entry96241

[Aaron DeChavilier]

@ gallows: passed sanity check

echoing my sentiments exactly. I also add, If players inside player groups want to have ToP and there's a way to set up custom matches, then I encourage them to do so, but not to enforce a gamewide-gimmick.

Jaroth Winson, on 16 February 2012 - 07:12 PM, said:

Nobody is going to die anyway unless you kill off your own character.

ok so this is already breaking you guys' oh-so-precious canon. If no one ever dies, then its not survival of the fittest because the unfit will just respawn in the next round! lulz

Edited by Aaron DeChavilier, 16 February 2012 - 08:14 PM.

[Polymorphyne]

Alot of players do stop playing, quit or re roll their characters- they can be assumed to have died.