7732 replies to this topic

[ChapeL]

Justin Kase, on 05 December 2016 - 06:33 PM, said:

You guys are slacking! No template for the Roughneck yet?

Anyway, since most of what I have been doing is 3028 era, I decided to speculate on what the Industrial 'Mech predecessor might look like.

I present, the Loader King (kudos to Noodle Art for use of his crane mech arm) :


Edit : Bishop Steiner pointed out I left on the arm mounted MGs and the spotlight was crooked, hope this is better

They need to come up with 5 more like that and make them merge together intoa bigger robot.... if you know what I mean.

[jjm1]

Featherwood, on 04 December 2016 - 06:55 AM, said:

Wow, I haven't been for while, and what I see - we have a new repaint-star and a fellow clansman (or at least ClanTech fan)! I am astonished by jjm1's works, I truly am. Thank you for sharing the pleasure, mr. jjm1.

May I ask if you have an Executioner and/or Gargoyle repaints in your todo list? These chassis (I especially love the look of my favourite build with 7E right hand) were unfairly neglected by local talents :*(


Edit: fixed the build link.

Well I do love to wreck mechs with Gargoyles. So yeah, I'll probably get around to it one day. EXEs are cool too, might also do that one day. Already got plans for other clan mechs though.

thanks.

[Juodas Varnas]

Justin Kase, on 05 December 2016 - 06:33 PM, said:

You guys are slacking! No template for the Roughneck yet?

Anyway, since most of what I have been doing is 3028 era, I decided to speculate on what the Industrial 'Mech predecessor might look like.

I present, the Loader King (kudos to Noodle Art for use of his crane mech arm) :

Edit : Bishop Steiner pointed out I left on the arm mounted MGs and the spotlight was crooked, hope this is better

Might want to get rid of the head-mounted laser as well.
Looks really cool though.

[Justin Kase]

Juodas Varnas, on 06 December 2016 - 01:19 AM, said:

Might want to get rid of the head-mounted laser as well.
Looks really cool though.

I had shortened the laser and left it on there as an industrial cutting laser. But I guess something like that should go on an arm for more control.

Probably doesn't need quite as long an aerial as well.

[Juodas Varnas]

Justin Kase, on 06 December 2016 - 07:08 AM, said:

I had shortened the laser and left it on there as an industrial cutting laser. But I guess something like that should go on an arm for more control.

Probably doesn't need quite as long an aerial as well.

I'm not sure having the laser even fits the purpose of the mech.
I mean it was a Loader mech so having the "Lift Hoist" (i think they're called that way) makes sense, but laser seems kind of out of place.
It does make me realize just the crazy amount of rules Battletech can have. They weren't kidding at mechcon when they were talking about how crazy complex the game can be.

Lift Hoists
'Mechs (Industrial or BattleMech) may mount up to two Lift Hoists in either arms or their Torsos.

Each Lift Hoist allows a unit to lift cargo equal to half its tonnage (or 200 whichever is lower) and suffer no movement penalty for carrying cargo up to half their tonnage.

Edited by Juodas Varnas, 06 December 2016 - 07:27 AM.

[Koniving]

Juodas Varnas, on 06 December 2016 - 07:23 AM, said:

I'm not sure having the laser even fits the purpose of the mech.
I mean it was a Loader mech so having the "Lift Hoist" (i think they're called that way) makes sense, but laser seems kind of out of place.
It does make me realize just the crazy amount of rules Battletech can have. They weren't kidding at mechcon when they were talking about how crazy complex the game can be.

Lift Hoists
'Mechs (Industrial or BattleMech) may mount up to two Lift Hoists in either arms or their Torsos.

Each Lift Hoist allows a unit to lift cargo equal to half its tonnage (or 200 whichever is lower) and suffer no movement penalty for carrying cargo up to half their tonnage.

A small number of agro/industrial mechs have basic defense capabilities. For example the Harvester Ant standard uses some combines for harvesting, however two early first succession war variants carry a couple of machine guns and an SRM-2, and the other carries an LRM-5 in each side torso.
That's as early as 2801.

It was generally important for even farmers to be able to engage infantry and light armor to defend their lands, but part of this is because in the first two Succession Wars no target was ever spared. Farms, churches, children, schools, etc.

This said, the fluff states it was given a Fusion Engine, meaning it did not possess previously and thus could not support a laser weapon in the industrial mech "Loader King" design.

This means that laser cannot function and is an illegal element. It is more likely that the 'Mech had a machine gun. It also was not uncommon for Industrial 'Mechs to have SRM launchers loaded with smoke or tear gas. However such mechs would have environmental sealing.

I will attempt to invent a Loader King in BT and tell you what kind of space is left over when I'm done.
------

This said the naming convention of agricultural and industrial mechs matches my complaint about PGI's ignorance to the variant naming conventions...

As such...
I renamed the Roughneck variants that I made in Megamek to RGK 1A, 1B, 1C, and 1A2 and 1A3.
Beyond the heromech, there is no cause or lore-suitable reason for there to be a 'second generation' version of this 'Mech in the same year.

Edited by Koniving, 06 December 2016 - 08:14 AM.

[Koniving]

Researching a bit...
Company info
According to this, they have their hands in building a lot of licensed battlemechs, and as such.... don't really have a need to 'get into the battlemech market'. Then again it appears this didn't really kick off until Jihad eras as Corean industries basically ran them into the ground in the Battlemech market.

Moving on... They did something similar to this canonically in 3073 with the production of the Legionnaire Battlemech which was converted from an Industrial 'Mech. So it looks like PGI went into some research.
Again, an obvious sign of naming conventions is present here which PGI didn't notice.. Legionnaire.


Interesting news: Their idea of 'Mechs is squat, short, and kinda bulky. This guy's only 50 tons.

Also: Indeed as the Roughneck page says, it is unusual for a heavy class mech to come out of Achernar that isn't licensed, heaviest thing they're responsible for appears to be 50 tons in terms of industrial mechs and most are lighter than that. Their main industrial 'Mech weapon of choice are MGs and SRMs... Being Davion I'm surprised there's no AC/2 or Mech Rifle references.

They also produce: Mining Drills, Fluid Guns, and Rock Cutters.
-------------
Mkay, done my research and even got a list of engines they make.
Gonna try a stab at a Loader King sans weaponry and we'll get an idea of how much tonnage 'could' go to that.

[Juodas Varnas]

Koniving, on 06 December 2016 - 08:46 AM, said:

Researching a bit...
Company info
According to this, they have their hands in building a lot of licensed battlemechs, and as such.... don't really have a need to 'get into the battlemech market'. Then again it appears this didn't really kick off until Jihad eras as Corean industries basically ran them into the ground in the Battlemech market.

Moving on... They did something similar to this canonically in 3073 with the production of the Legionnaire Battlemech which was converted from an Industrial 'Mech. So it looks like PGI went into some research.
Again, an obvious sign of naming conventions is present here which PGI didn't notice.. Legionnaire.


Interesting news: Their idea of 'Mechs is squat, short, and kinda bulky. This guy's only 50 tons.

Also: Indeed as the Roughneck page says, it is unusual for a heavy class mech to come out of Achernar that isn't licensed, heaviest thing they're responsible for appears to be 50 tons in terms of industrial mechs and most are lighter than that. Their main industrial 'Mech weapon of choice are MGs and SRMs... Being Davion I'm surprised there's no AC/2 or Mech Rifle references.

They also produce: Mining Drills, Fluid Guns, and Rock Cutters.
-------------
Mkay, done my research and even got a list of engines they make.
Gonna try a stab at a Loader King sans weaponry and we'll get an idea of how much tonnage 'could' go to that.

Well, you might try to contact Russ, via twitter, and just tell him that the naming scheme for Roughneck is off.

I wouldn't be surprised if they changed it to fit in better (they'd probably want their OG mech to fit in as best as possible)

[Koniving]

Juodas Varnas, on 06 December 2016 - 08:52 AM, said:

Well, you might try to contact Russ, via twitter, and just tell him that the naming scheme for Roughneck is off.

I wouldn't be surprised if they changed it to fit in better (they'd probably want their OG mech to fit in as best as possible)

Surprised Catalyst didn't say anything, considering that Catalyst made it into a canon mech.

I don't have a twitter... I know being a youtuber that's kinda surprising in this day and age. I might ask someone that has it.
I think they just thought of the Clan config scheme for the letter variants, and increases in numbers I can figure they probably just looked at how similar builds do have that scheme (i.e. AS7-D, AS8-D, etc.), however the sequential numbers is because they are different generations or had significant overhauls (including those that don't actually exist, like fixing a 'flaw' or trying to get away from the failure of a previous version).

(Letters in IS variants denote who ordered the design, aka SHK-5M is a design ordered by Marik, SHK-5D is a design ordered by Davion. In Star League era mechs, letter designations relate to the intended role. I don't remember the specifics. Little things like lower case "b" always represents Royal Guard. Then there is a letter (I think it is Q) which always is used for long range artillery loadouts. P is usually energy specific. Then there are oddballs like Highlander where the first digit denotes generation and those after denote model number.)

Anyways had fatherly duties to attend to but am working the build now.

Edited by Koniving, 06 December 2016 - 04:41 PM.

[Koniving]

Under the assumption that the original 'Mech better fit Achernar's own production models (despite its slender build and height) and that the transformation into Battlemech increased its potential tonnage when they converted to military grade materials...

I have made my attempt at designing the Loader King with 50 tons as the base.

This is my result, with 1.5 tons free.

Keep in mind the following stipulations:
1) It is assumed that as an industrial mech, more balanced armor placement is important as the armor is intended to protect the product from internal damage on non-combat incidents such as stumbles, falls, poor weight distribution, and poor piloting.
2) The Loader King design should closely match the artwork provided by Justin Kase.
3) The mech's appearance and design as well as purpose does not appear to need, require, or otherwise leave a desire for... cargo holds or things such as mining equipment.
4) Its speed should match the battlemech variant.
5) "Free" heatsinks were given to it, but actually after making this image I just realized that as a ICE engine, it doesn't require any heatsinks what-so-ever...


Edit: So after making this image I have removed 6 of the 8 'free' heatsinks, which has freed 6 tons.
So there is 7.5 tons to work with for additional equipment.
It seems there is room for things such as cargo space and potentially first aid equipment (which might have later been converted into ammo bins for the Battlemech overhaul.) or additional industrial grade armor.

Attempt 2...
Armor upgraded from 5 tons industrial armor to 8.5 tons industrial armor. Heatsinks reduced to 2 for handling basic movement heat.
No other changes made. 4 tons left. (Can shave half a ton to fit an MG if necessary).


Fun note: Powerman, another cargo loading mech... is 20 tons and often loaded with AC/5 or LRM-5. o.O; An AC/5 on a 20 ton industrial mech. O_O Granted it's Jihad era.

Edited by Koniving, 06 December 2016 - 11:45 AM.

[Justin Kase]

Really liking the stats.

But I would think it should be 65 tons - or is the thought that the militarized version weighs more?

Last night I was making a rough list of equipment it should have - and had come up with:

Industrial Armor
Industrial Cockpit
Industrial Internal Combustion Engine (ICE)
Environmental Sealing (so it can work in airless, or hostile environments - such as loading a dropship on an airless asteroid)
Standard Gyro
Standard Heat Sinks
Industrial Mech Structure
Small Laser + Power Amplifier (this allows a capacitor to charge and fire the laser)
Searchlight
Transport / Cargo Bays (seems like the Powerman has these - as you noted)
EXTENDED INDUSTRIALMECH FUEL TANKS (so it can be used in the field and not just on a facility)
Lift Hoist (x3) {each arm is technically a lift hoist as noted in the Roughneck description, plus the crane}

Quirk:
Extended torso twist

I am not sure, but I think the 'cargo bay' nay be more like a mounting point for cargo, as opposed to an internal bay.

When looking at the powerman, it looks like the one crate is latched to the back, while the other is across the torsos.



There is also the Dig King - which has an odd naming convention RCL-1 (http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Dig_King )

Edited by Justin Kase, 06 December 2016 - 01:01 PM.

[FLG 01]

Justin Kase, on 05 December 2016 - 06:33 PM, said:

I present, the Loader King (kudos to Noodle Art for use of his crane mech arm) :

Good stuff!

[jjm1]

Clan Diamond Shark Lambda Spina Galaxy special.

lore and build specs

[Koniving]

Militarized version weighs more is the thought. They reused the chassis with a better quality skeleton of military grade materials. Plus they are specifically written in both roughneck and corporate lore that something in the heavy category is unusual for them. In other words they have almost never produced a mech of 60 tons or more in the past of their own. They licensed heavy mech builds but not til 3070+. The conclusion of 50 tons came from the majority of their own creations being 50 tons or less.

As a machinist that deals with molds for 12 hours a day, I can tell you that if you have a fine material, you can use 55 lbs to fill a certain volume and get a good result. Take a different material like something coarse and thick and fill that mold with 55 lvs... you will have hell getting it out. But put in 5 lbs less and it will be able to consume just the same amount of thickness and volume as the finer material but using less of it. Thing is if you give it equal weight it will be much stronger as a far better material.

The same principle applies here. Industrial grade structure is heavier than military grade. It stands to reason for the same thickness of the lighter military grade since the skeleton does not change and we know it would use the same thickness, that the skeleton would thusly be stronger allowing the mech to sustain a proportionally larger tonnage due to the stronger material in the same size.
The thing you me turned, like chemical lasers, don't exist in the 3028 timeline. It's also an advancement usually reserved for military grade vehickes Like tanks.

I may be mistaken but I believe you get 1,500 hexes with just the engine's on board fuel. That's 45,000 meters. That is (if I did my math right/ 1,875 minutes of fuel provided you always went at cruising speed (53 kph BT or 48.6 kph mwo.). Think that is plenty of fuel since it is supposed to load cargo not go on adventures. Just a personal opinion. Edit: Scratch that I did 24 meters per minute. 187.5 minutes so a bit over two hours,l at cruising speed for 4 hexes per ten seconds or 24 per minute.

You are correct nothing says the cargo bay must be internal, I just tend to imagine them to be.

You have me thinking of going much deeper than typical BT agro Mechs and reading yours I'm left to think of my old security Mechs like the Nin Kei and the unnamed one based on the Patlabor Ingram

I'll come up with a serious build by afternoon tomorrow and narrow down a possible weight for the Loader King mathematically. It may come out to 55 tons.

Either way if I can make a 25 to. mech manage to rock a high amount of armor, several guns, ammo and a side torso turret as well as catapillar tracks I think I can fit more into this thing even at 50 tons.

Far as the Dig King... this has wizkidz and dark ages all over it.
Rck-1 and rcl-1m for mod...
Then it gets apocryphial or non-canon with some entries made up and out in for rcl4 mods.

2500s to 3099s is bound to make a lot of room for new variants and mods. The gap seems intentionally left with the description saying it became the basis for hundreds of variations. On other words it was left open for players to make their own. So I wouldn't trust the naming convention even tjough the Canon entries do follow it. Civilian generic so no military houses to make it after. Mod designation is M. Seems straight laces to me.

Edited by Koniving, 06 December 2016 - 10:55 PM.

[Brenden]

So to repaint the concept art, just go to the guy's deviantart page, save it, then open it up in Adobe Elements 8?

[Brenden]

Brenden, on 19 August 2013 - 10:42 PM, said:

Ghost Bear Locust "Snowdrift"

No! Please, this was the best one I ever made! Please...

[Brenden]

I found it!
The link to Photobucket is gone, but I found this from another website I posted.

[Koniving]

Justin Kase, it isn't possible to have three lift hoists as a Bipedal mech (also 9 tons is debilitating). Roughneck lore points out it could take abuse so I raised armor. Also found environmental sealing nearly impossible to put in but realized this was due to weight from it and engine. Achernar produces Fuel Cells, in fact very close to the 200 range so changed to fuel cell.

Will have a full list here shortly.

[Justin Kase]

Koniving, on 07 December 2016 - 09:42 PM, said:

Justin Kase, it isn't possible to have three lift hoists as a Bipedal mech (also 9 tons is debilitating). Roughneck lore points out it could take abuse so I raised armor. Also found environmental sealing nearly impossible to put in but realized this was due to weight from it and engine. Achernar produces Fuel Cells, in fact very close to the 200 range so changed to fuel cell.

Will have a full list here shortly.

Sorry, not as familiar with all the Ind Mech construction rules

What about using a Salvage arm for one of the hands instead of a 3rd hoist? Just tossing out ideas - looking forward to whatever you post

[Koniving]

About the Power man... it evidently has 5 cargo mounts, the rear torso being the weakest at 0.5 tons while the four others (2 per st) are 1 ton each for a grand total of 4.5 tons of cargo carrying ability. All each one actually is though is a pillar to mount the weight to in addition to the rear torso being a mounting point/plate within the artwork and they can hold separate loads or combine to hold one or two loads (such as back and front). In the artwork in addition to both arms being lift hoists (think forklifts rather than cranes) which hold the weight in front, the rear torso and two of the four pillars are being used to support that crate. The two pillars in front could probably squeeze another two tons in cargo carrying ability without penalty...

By that I mean each lift hoist or arm in this case can carry half the Mech's weight or (35/2=17.5) tons without movement penalties (being forced to go slower). Two allow it to carry the Mech's full weight in cargo within both arms. The two front pillars aka "cargo containers" allow that amount to go up to 37.5 tons in front as well as the 2.5 behind it. God damn.

This is why 3 lift hoists is not allowed. Even my 50 ton design, just 3 lift hoists would allow it to carry 75 tons without slowing down. That's pretty unreasonable and quite unrealistic.

So why did I just focus on the Powerman? Simple. Roughneck's Sarna page emphasizes that the Loader King it was based on (the made up mech Roughneck is based on) was the company's competitor against the Powerman. So whatever the Loader King turns out to be must be able to compete with the Powerman to include it's ultimate price tag, versatility and durability as well as ability to do what the powerman does best... haul stuff.

(In the art below It does look better with construction yellow.)

----------

So, here is my third attempt. This time I made a big emphasis on the fact that the Loader King is explicitly described as a competitor to the Powerman Loadermech. So as Pepsi to Coca Cola, I present the Loader King.



And yes, it still manages to keep your precious small laser on the head. It has about two hours of run time. I was going to upgrade it to 55 tons and throw in either environmental sealing or a sprayer, liquid suction and a liquid storage tank (both for washing cargo / things around the facilities as well as for being able to suck up water for more fuel as that is all you need to give a rudimentary charge to the Fuel Cell engine in a pinch. Sadly the available weight for supplies actually goes down when you jump up in tonnage, because the engine size required jumps from 200 to 260 and the overall weight available for other things is cut in the process.)

It can haul up to 6 tons in its cargo mounts even though it only possesses 3 instead of 5. In addition it can also sustain 50 tons within its arms without movement penalty for an overall weight load of 56 tons versus the Powerman's total 39 tons possible. Of course this is at 50 tons of 'Mech as opposed to 35 tons. It can take just shy as twice the abuse from an armor standpoint and quite a bit more from a structural standpoint. In terms of speed they are identical.

The best part is in terms of cost to the consumer... Achernar Battlemechs' Loader King as designed by me is 1,841,531 cbills.
The competition, Sitwell Corporation's Powerman Loadermech is 1,709,460 cbills.

This Loader King -- with superior hauling capability, better endurance to handle civilian and military force abuse for just under 200,000 cbills more.

The Powerman Loadermech SC XI (SC being the company name "Sitwell Corporation" and XI being the model number; if this naming convention was of any interest for those so curious)...

Edited by Koniving, 09 December 2016 - 10:28 AM.