1961 replies to this topic

[Rabbit Blacksun]

more then likely some deal had to have been reached since they end up with "enclaves" on several important IS worlds, so near as i can tell .. they probably already have units and personal in the IS. It was one thing that was never really touched upon though would make an interesting plot twist.

Though it would seem after the invasion they become very much the merchant types and more of a mercenary group rather then holding completely to clan idealism.

Still ... I would think like any group there is going to be the die hard clan is the only way, so yeah... can definitly see how the faction is going to split and change through their time spent, and of course like any MMO pretty sure players are going to set the stage for the MW:O world anyway.

That being said, wonder which i fall into XD ... though thinking about it I think that bleeding the clans i dont like dry through monetary means just has some poetic justice to it LOL

[Nerts]

It's always going to be Diamond Shark to me, symbolises that not matter what happens, we're always going to be on top of the food chain.

It also sounds considerably more badass.

[Coralld]

It really doesnt matter to me if they name them selves Sea Fox or Diamond Shark as they are one and the same. I almost always call them Sea Fox do to the fact that, that it was their origenel Clan name and one they changed back to after the Sea Fox population returned.

[Rabbit Blacksun]

yep ... sides ... the shark just looks silly imo ... but hey the end result is still the same.

After all ... we got a few warriors, you would think with building some of the best known mechs in the universe we would have a much better military strength then we ever get credit for ...

Lets unite and show em all that we arent exactly pansies ...

Ok well im doing that anyway XD

[Coralld]

Its true, the Sea Fox's do have a strong militery but they really only ever use it for self deffence or to protect anything of economic interest to them. They really are one of the stronger Clans but because they fly under the radar to avoid being bothered by the others this has made them over looked in the BT community.

[Rabbit Blacksun]

eh well ... being over looked can be a good thing, i mean lets face it ... because they are over looked they can play both sides, ideally they are the ultimate and perfect merc company on a massive scale, while they have the merchant side, they also have the fighter side, the design side, hell even have enclaves on multiple planets both clan and IS

[Gremlich Johns]

For a majority of hardcore BT/CBT players, there is only Clan Diamond Shark - not Clan Sea Fox. 3100 is in the future and players, not Wizkids or whomever, decide it. CDS was at Tukkayid, not the Sea Foxes. However, if people persist in using Clan Sea Fox (which I do not coutenance), I suggest using the following naming convention - CDS/CSF to mitigate confusion. (The Sea Fox did not exist in the BT novels as anything but a historical note - they have always been CDS to the "real" playerbase)

It's not even August 3049 and people are waaay too far into the future of a fiction that "WE" the players will create. So drop the CSF for now.

(I also do not subscribe to MW:DA)

[Gremlich Johns]

I would like to point out that CSF did not reappear until 3100 in the DA timeline.

[Coralld]

We are well aware of this Grim, and even though you your self do not subscribe to the DA for what ever your reasons are which is perfectly fine, it is still part of the BT lore and the universe as a whole. So if you are uncomfortable in using Clan Sea Fox or CSF, then just call them Clan Diamond Shark or CDS. It really isant that big of a deal and not that hard to figure out as every one knows who CSF/CDS are.

[Nerts]

Also, sharks are badass.

Edited by Nerts, 21 January 2012 - 11:14 AM.

[Gremlich Johns]

Coralld, on 21 January 2012 - 11:14 AM, said:

it is still part of the BT lore and the universe as a whole.

Not until 3100 - a difference of 51 years from the reboot date of 3049.

But, if you insist in your histerical point of view, it should be CDS/CSF until which time the name change occurs. Plus, the player dynamic of whatever leagues pop up around this game will determine whether CSF ever sees the light of day again - I am sure whichever one you join will do so. If NBT ever starts another planetary league, CSF will probably never be seen. Of course, Clan dynamics as imagined by participants in any league may change this if new fiction is created. But, just because Catalyst came up with more stories to sell things does not mean you have to observe their "canon". We write the new fiction past 3067. Or not if you are happy with the new stuff.

[KJ Crow]

Gremlich Johns, on 21 January 2012 - 07:55 AM, said:

It's not even August 3049 and people are waaay too far into the future of a fiction that "WE" the players will create....

I can't believe I am saying this...
What is to stop Rabbit from forming his 'Sea Foxes' as a Mercenary Corps with clan origins supported by Clan Diamond Shark, with a mission of scoping out new markets and sales opportunities? This would be in much the same way that Wolf's Dragoons were originally sent to reconoitre the Inner Sphere, so should it really insult the Clan purists that much... it is hardly as if there is a mass of History about CDS during this time period and they don't officially join the invasion force of Operation Revival until 3051.

As of the point of launch, it will not just be the Devs providing the story from the pre ordained future of 'canon'... we should view the canon as our history and not necessarily as our future.

[Rabbit Blacksun]

and you sir... are an ***** ...

It was called Clan Sea Fox before it was ever called Clan Diamond Shark, infact in any number of source books you can find that information, you can also find most of the basic information including several spots where members of the clan refused to call it Clan Diamond Shark. Besides its player based and non of the other clans are even known at the current date ... yet they are out there ... so near as i can tell this is a rather obvious ploy for attention, or perhaps trolling ... unfortunatly for you ... we actually know our stuff and are just chillin out here discussing a clan that most dont even know about or even care about.

Btw ...

The word you where trying to spell was HISTORICAL unless you where attempting to use HISTERICAL as a pun in which case you still fail since its not in connetation.

Now as you pointed out at the end your right this is a rewrite, so who says that Sea fox ever changed its name to begin with, or more importantly who is to say that they didnt send people towards the inner sphere after the dragoons, you sir are contridicting yourself, so in closing ...

why you so mad brah ?

[Gremlich Johns]

KJ Crow, on 21 January 2012 - 11:44 AM, said:

I can't believe I am saying this...
What is to stop Rabbit from forming his 'Sea Foxes' as a Mercenary Corps with clan origins supported by Clan Diamond Shark, with a mission of scoping out new markets and sales opportunities? This would be in much the same way that Wolf's Dragoons were originally sent to reconoitre the Inner Sphere, so should it really insult the Clan purists that much... it is hardly as if there is a mass of History about CDS during this time period and they don't officially join the invasion force of Operation Revival until 3051.

As of the point of launch, it will not just be the Devs providing the story from the pre ordained future of 'canon'... we should view the canon as our history and not necessarily as our future.

At what point in time do you place this last point, if, as you point out "we should view the canon as our history and not necessarily as our future."? And CDS mercantilism forays into the IS prior to 3051 let alone 3067? Baloney!

As I pointed out, to bring in elements from later than 3067 is to fundamentally change the canon upon which Catalyst canon is based. So your suggestion "What is to stop Rabbit from forming his 'Sea Foxes' as a Mercenary Corps with clan origins supported by Clan Diamond Shark," cannot happen in the BT universe because such a thing is not found in canon even in rumour. Granted, Clan information is sporadic, but that does not give anyone carte blanche until 3067 to "play" with the gross fiction that has already been established. I submit that the Sea Fox as a overt merc corp supported by CDS would fit in that definition of "gross fiction". However, an intel component, (like the Clan Watch)- small and well outfitted and supported by CDS would be okay, but not to the point of being a significant presence within the IS or periphery.

I agree that we, the players, create the new fiction, but at which point in time can we run roughshod over the established, and accepted by all, canon up to 3067 without taking the milieu out of continuity. It is after this year that players diverge in what they prefer as true canon.

[Rabbit Blacksun]

and note still nothing in responce to the fact that the wolf's dragoons are indeed clan backed ...

I can take it you just dont like Sea Fox ?

and FYI ...

IF you have ever played TT (table top) which from what i have gathered this game is supposed to be more adhered too, it is quite liable to change the story to suit a player or group of players wants/whims/desires.

now to poking holes in your statement...

So the first error in your statement ... Clan Sea Fox is the one to provide most of the ships to the Clans, (and yes that would include, the ships Wolf's Dragoons entered into the IS with.)

second ... i believe the date for the game launch is 3048, which means that according to the game the clans are not even known about at this point, Dragoons have not come out with their back ground.

Third I could point out that any one is free to role with anything they see fit for a merc group, so yes I could create a merc group with clan backing wether for mercantile reasons or militaristic reasons.

fourth and final reason, all any one has been doing on this board has been to discuss a clan that they enjoy or have not heard of before. Since clans are not viable for playing, nor do we know how they are going to work the clan teams yet, or if they even will, your arguments are some what invalid and serve absolutely no purpose ...

[KJ Crow]

Once we know the release date of the game, you will know the point at which we should view the canon as history... from that point on, player battles will have an effect on the poilitical map, in however small a way that is.

Extreme case in point... You as a player are involved in a battle against the invading Clans when they arrive in the Periphery... do you fight to win it or do you just say 'well the canon says that they win, so I will just eject and have a cup of tea on that hill over there whilst those shiney mechs trash mine'?.... do you allow only the units that took part in the canon defense against the clans to take part or are we all allowed to join in?

If you answered 'Fight to win' and 'Allow all units to join' then congratulations, you are on the way to accepting the principals of a 'reboot' and should re evaluate the effect you think one player run merc unit may have on the overall scheme of of things, irrespective of their background history.

Anyway, that is all I am saying. I was only trying to suggest a way that a player could form his Merc group which would allow him to enjoy the game and still incorporate some of the canon history that he obviously enjoys.

[Rabbit Blacksun]

oh i did

http://mwomercs.com/...ves-recruiting/

[Rabbit Blacksun]

Originally named Clan Sea Fox by Nicholas Kerensky, this Clan quickly gained a reputation for free thinking liberalism and a openness with its lower castes which was remarkably different from the other Clans. Under the leadership of Khan Karen Nagasawa, Clan Sea Fox was soon known for its democratic ways and liberal attitudes toward all its caste members. Khan Nagasawa's policies paid off hugely as the Clan reaped substantial benefits from its exploration teams and the Clan-wide information network, the Chatterweb.

oh yes ... i think they can find their own way to the IS LOL

[Gremlich Johns]

Rabbit Blacksun, on 21 January 2012 - 12:00 PM, said:

and you sir... are an ***** ...

It was called Clan Sea Fox before it was ever called Clan Diamond Shark, infact in any number of source books you can find that information, you can also find most of the basic information including several spots where members of the clan refused to call it Clan Diamond Shark. Besides its player based and non of the other clans are even known at the current date ... yet they are out there ... so near as i can tell this is a rather obvious ploy for attention, or perhaps trolling ... unfortunatly for you ... we actually know our stuff and are just chillin out here discussing a clan that most dont even know about or even care about.

Btw ...

The word you where trying to spell was HISTORICAL unless you where attempting to use HISTERICAL as a pun in which case you still fail since its not in connetation.

Now as you pointed out at the end your right this is a rewrite, so who says that Sea fox ever changed its name to begin with, or more importantly who is to say that they didnt send people towards the inner sphere after the dragoons, you sir are contridicting yourself, so in closing ...

why you so mad brah ?

Not angry, just concerned about the integrity of the existing Canon.


I pointed out that CSF exists in the pre-3067 canon as nothing more than a historical footnote in the history of Clan Diamond Shark. That is fact. I do not dispute that they were called CSF, only that up to 3067, invasion period canon only identified the clan as CDS. And, as Clans are wont to do, they resist change - as some did when the clan changed its name - again, that is a historical footnote and not part of the invasion storyline.

I am just trying to get players new to the BT universe (meaning those who didn't grow up with it from its inception over 25 years ago (starting with the TT game) and love the Jihad and DA storylines - that is obviously you) to understand that you cannot play fast and loose with a storylines' canonical elements whenever you want. You should at least wait until an existing storyline has reached its finale and diverge from there. Meaning that if you want the CSF to emerge, wait until 3068 at the earliest.

I know the history of the Clans fairly well, having been a Loremaster for some time before becoming Khan for CBS in NBT-HC. I submit that you, yourself, do not, indeed, know canon as well as you claim. You must review the pre-3067 information and not reinterpret it. Were you as conversant in canon as you suggest, you would not have made this statement: "so who says that Sea fox ever changed its name to begin with". The Source books say so. And in 2985 to be exact (Page 76 of "The Clans: Warriors of Kerensky) after a Trial Of Refusal on 30 September of that year.

I also did not contradict myself at any point (you just don't read well enough to interpret nuance) and I spelled the word "Hysterical" on purpose to prove the point that some want what they want with little regard to the greater storyline. Again, that would again be you in case you missed that nuanced statement. (now THIS paragraph is trolling)

You will notice I did not assail you with veiled profanity.

Not knowing the course of the MWO storyline, who is to say CSF does not, indeed exist. If it strictly follows FASA/Catalyst canon, it does not re-emerge until 3100 and as yet, HAS NO PLACE in 3049. If it is, however, a wholly new fiction beginning in 3049 - then have at it after the game starts, there are then no canonical constraints for CSF to not be in the game as a faction and the devs are using the canon only as guidelines for their game. I know that what we need is not the same old MW game - using the canon up to 3049 would be a great way to start out a unique game with elements familiar to most of us.

You will notice that there has been no mention of the homeworlds clans showing up anythime soon. I would soooo love to have CBS show up, but, sticking to canon, that clan, one I have been a member of since about 2000, will not be part of the game starting this or the following few years. Probably not ever until at least a planetary league emerges. You do not see any CBS posturing as some pseudo merc corp group chomping at the bit to play this game - and CBS actually exists in the pre-3067 milieu. No, as a group, we are waiting to see what direction the game takes. Do we join an actual invading clan, IS House or merc group? Time will tell.

Edited by Gremlich Johns, 21 January 2012 - 12:56 PM.

[Tyzh]

Well, I was never much a fan of Clan Diamond Shark. Battletech and I were introduced over a nice tall glass of MW2 and that sort of introduction generally ends up sealing your fate to Wolf or Jade Falcon. Plus, when I first heard the name I thought it sounded silly. I mean, really? A shark? Laaaaame. However, Sea Fox is fantastic. It is such a good totem it almost makes a turn coat out of me. I will just have to have a sort of 2/3rds sense of loyalty to Sea Fox, because, really, CSF is only one letter away from CJF, right? Good plan. I like it. Furthermore, sods to Gremlich! I will stand with you CSF! You know, when I am not busy standing somewhere else. For now, though, I will be off to read this Hunters of the Deep.