23 replies to this topic

[Yeach]

Should running be substainable?

(Yes i am talking about the running speed and not the cruise/walk speed of a mech)

I was thinking sprinting / running should it be where you hold onto a key (say shift) and you get a quick acceleration to maximum running speed for x number of seconds/minutes.

The quick burst of speed could also let you pull off a charge attack if you are near someone.
http://mwomercs.com/...__fromsearch__1

Think of it as a button for afterburners or nitro.
Anyways just a idea to make a differentiation between cruise speed and maximum running speed.
http://mwomercs.com/...__fromsearch__1

[VYCanis]

are you implying mechs get tired? o_0 i r confus

Edited by VYCanis, 17 January 2012 - 10:13 PM.

[Godzilla Enthusiast]

Isn't that what heat build-up is for?

And for those fancy MASC mechs a burn-out chance?

[Durant Carlyle]

Running speed is sustainable forever.

MASC (BattleMech 'afterburner') should be limited -- the longer you use it, the more chance of leg actuator damage and consequent immobilization until the damage is repaired. Of course, MASC is a component that requires tonnage and critical spaces depending on 'Mech tonnage, so very few 'Mechs bother with it.

[Mchawkeye]

longer sprinting=higher heat. other wise potentially endless.

masc should be limited but not useless.

[Aegis Kleais]

Mechs are like airplanes when it comes to navigation. We use bearings, marks, vectors, headings, can both pitch and yaw (though rolling is usually out of the question), so when it comes to speeds, I usually takes notes from that.

A Mech's "full" speed is it's "Cruising velocity". So if at full throttle a Mech can move 68kph, then it's visually comparable to running at full sprint (when comparing a Mech to a human analog). The only time a Mech moves faster than that is when they are gravity assisted (dangerous if you hit a bad incline) or if they are using MASC (which has inherited risks involved).

[DEVASTATOR]

VYCanis, on 17 January 2012 - 10:13 PM, said:

are you implying mechs get tired? o_0 i r confus

LOL

Maybe we should have mechs with giant cans of Red Bull on their backs. You know.........to give them wings and such.

[Yeach]

Going in another direction...
Odd number walking movement point equal getting 0.5 more movement points when running.
Ie 5 MP walk = 8 mp run and not 7.5 mp.

[DEVASTATOR]

Yeach, on 18 January 2012 - 07:46 AM, said:

Going in another direction...
Odd number walking movement point equal getting 0.5 more movement points when running.
Ie 5 MP walk = 8 mp run and not 7.5 mp.

Huh?

[Yeach]

Yeach, on 18 January 2012 - 07:46 AM, said:

Going in another direction...
Odd number walking movement point equal getting 0.5 more movement points when running.
Ie 5 MP walk = 8 mp run and not 7.5 mp.

okay I was at work and I couldn't adequately explain it.

In TT a mech's running speed is 150% of its walking speed; however due to odd numbers in MP and limitations of TT, the speed is rounded up to the next MP.
So a mech with a walk speed of 4 MP (43kph) has a running speed of 4 x 1.5 = 6 MP (65 kph)
However a mech with a walk speed of 5 MP (54kph) has a running speed of 5 x 1.5 = 7.5 rounded up to 8 MP (86kph)

There were many people dismayed (maybe BT purists) when in MW3 the stock MadCat max speed was listed as 81kph (7.5 MP) instead of the TRO number of 86kph.

In MW4, the listed speed of the MadCat was 85 kph (i think) and nobody complained about that..

[DEVASTATOR]

Yeach, on 18 January 2012 - 07:09 PM, said:

okay I was at work and I couldn't adequately explain it.

In TT a mech's running speed is 150% of its walking speed; however due to odd numbers in MP and limitations of TT, the speed is rounded up to the next MP.
So a mech with a walk speed of 4 MP (43kph) has a running speed of 4 x 1.5 = 6 MP (65 kph)
However a mech with a walk speed of 5 MP (54kph) has a running speed of 5 x 1.5 = 7.5 rounded up to 8 MP (86kph)

There were many people dismayed (maybe BT purists) when in MW3 the stock MadCat max speed was listed as 81kph (7.5 MP) instead of the TRO number of 86kph.

In MW4, the listed speed of the MadCat was 85 kph (i think) and nobody complained about that..

Well, you might not like my answer but..........

who gives a damn? Frankly I couldn't give a rats a$$ if the MadCat ran 5 km/h slower than what the TRO said. People who got upset about that need to get a life. No, really.

As long as the top speed of, and the differences between mechs makes sense then I'm fine with that. Besides, in a video game there is no walk and run speeds. Whether it be by joystick throttle or by keyboard, there were only 3 speeds. Your top speed forward, top speed backwards and full stop. Everything else in between were varying shades of full throttle that scaled somewhat infinitely to full throttle. I can't imagine having a mech with only two forward speeds avaialble - run and walk. Glad they don't make cars that way.

[Havoc2]

'Mechs only need a top speed that's representitive of their design (i.e. Atlas tops out at 68km/h, Raven tops out at 148km/h or whatever the Devs decide is appropriate for Assault class, Heavy class, Medium class, and Light class).

The speeds are then 0 - 100% forwards, and 0 - 100% reverse (although their reverse should be limited to a % of top speed for control purposes. Can you run full tilt backwards? Didn't think so).

What I do think is that there should be a heat penalty for running the 'Mech at full throttle all the time. Shouldn't damage the engine or anything significant, but if someone has a build that uses primarily energy weapons and they've shaved heat sinks for more speed, armor, or weapons they should need to keep in mind that running at top speed they are generating more heat/not dissipating heat as efficiently.

[BarHaid]

}{avoc, on 19 January 2012 - 01:13 PM, said:

'Mechs only need a top speed that's representitive of their design (i.e. Atlas tops out at 68km/h, Raven tops out at 148km/h or whatever the Devs decide is appropriate for Assault class, Heavy class, Medium class, and Light class).

The speeds are then 0 - 100% forwards, and 0 - 100% reverse (although their reverse should be limited to a % of top speed for control purposes. Can you run full tilt backwards? Didn't think so).

This is definitely a good place to deviate from TT orthodoxy. the whole walking/running mechanic is just a way to simulate "real world" conditions. The computer can do a much better job of simulating that.

I really like the idea of pushing the throttle forward, and when my mech's at full speed hitting the MASC button on the side for that extra boost.

[Yeach]

Another thing that just crossed my mind about sprinting (that was never truly implemented in mecharrior although maybe MW4 at least tried abit)

Most mechs are bipedal and have arms and with all intents and purposes would function like a bipedal being.
I was thinking that in-order for mechs to get to their top speed, they would be like athletes using the arms to "pull you" forward.

Of course this would make sprinting (or charging) mean that you would not be able to fire your arm (or leg) mounted weapons. And even if you are able to fire your torso weapons, the amount of movement would mean that you would have very poor aim.

[Siilk]

@Yeach: "bipedal beings" don't use arms to "pull forward", they(and not even all of them) use them for balance. Mechs have gryos fro that. As for OP, it's not how mechs work, if they're at max speed -- that's it, they can't go faster without a MASC. Quoting Aegis:

Aegis Kleais™, on 18 January 2012 - 07:24 AM, said:

A Mech's "full" speed is it's "Cruising velocity". So if at full throttle a Mech can move 68kph, then it's visually comparable to running at full sprint (when comparing a Mech to a human analog). The only time a Mech moves faster than that is when they are gravity assisted (dangerous if you hit a bad incline) or if they are using MASC (which has inherited risks involved).

[Strum Wealh]

Aegis Kleais™, on 18 January 2012 - 07:24 AM, said:

Mechs are like airplanes when it comes to navigation. We use bearings, marks, vectors, headings, can both pitch and yaw (though rolling is usually out of the question), so when it comes to speeds, I usually takes notes from that.

A Mech's "full" speed is it's "Cruising velocity". So if at full throttle a Mech can move 68kph, then it's visually comparable to running at full sprint (when comparing a Mech to a human analog). The only time a Mech moves faster than that is when they are gravity assisted (dangerous if you hit a bad incline) or if they are using MASC (which has inherited risks involved).

Admittedly, the aviation comparison caught my interest as one who has a strong, life-long interest in aviation (up to the point of having a Private Pilot Certificate ).

As I see it, BattleMechs should have around 12 possible V speeds:
-- normal walking/cruise speed (cruise MP, as determined by engine rating)
-- normal running/maximum speed (1.5(cruise MP))
-- TSM-boosted walking/cruise speed ((cruise MP) + 2)
-- TSM-boosted running/maximum speed (1.5((cruise MP) + 2) = 1.5(cruise MP) + 3)
-- Supercharger-boosted walking/cruise speed (1.25(cruise MP))
-- Supercharger-boosted running/maximum speed (1.5(1.25(cruise MP)) = 1.875(cruise MP))
-- MASC-boosted walking/cruise speed (2(cruise MP))
-- MASC-boosted running/maximum speed (1.5(2(cruise MP)) = 3(cruise MP))
-- (TSM + Supercharger)-boosted walking/cruise speed (1.25((cruise MP) + 2) = 1.25(cruise MP) + 2.5)
-- (TSM + Supercharger)-boosted running/maximum speed (1.5(1.25((cruise MP) + 2)) = 1.875(cruise MP) + 3.75)
-- (MASC + Supercharger)-boosted walking/cruise speed (1.25(2(cruise MP)) = 2.5(cruise MP))
-- (MASC + Supercharger)-boosted running/maximum speed (1.5(2.5(cruise MP)) = 3.75(cruise MP))

By rule, TSM and MASC are incompatible with one another.
1 MP = 30 meters in 10 seconds = 3 meters per second = 10.8 kph

Though:
1.) (MASC + Supercharger)-boosted running/maximum speed seems limited to 3(cruise MP) by rule (Maximum Tech).
2.) The rules (Total Warfare) are worded ambiguously enough ("On a result of 3 or higher, the ’Mech can run that turn at a speed equal to double its standard Walking MP.") as to make it difficult to determine if the rule's statement of "run" actually refers to "MASC-boosted walking/cruise" or "MASC-boosted running/maximum".
3.) TSM canonically requires the 'Mech to be overheated (by at least 9 units of heat) to activate.
4.) Canonically, MASC and Superchargers each risk damage to the 'Mech (to the myomers/actuators and engine, respectively).
5.) Canonically, moving at walking/cruise speed generated 1 unit of heat per 10-second period (an average of 0.1 units of heat per second) while moving at running/maximum speed generated 2 units of heat per 10-second period (an average of 0.2 units of heat per second).

Personally, I'd like to see the 12-speed system outlined above, with each speed being sustainable for as long as the required systems are activated, generating an appropriate amount of heat, and with the canonically-associated risks.

Your thoughts?

[Mechteric]

Its better to think of this like a vehicle, such as a tank, than something that walks and runs. Fatigue just doesn't enter the equation, but heat is where everything boils down to.

[Pht]

Quote

SPRINTING (MOVEMENT MODE)


To use sprinting movement, a ’Mech must have two working hip actuators. A ’Mech’s Sprinting MP is twice its current Walking/Cruising MP. Sprinting generates 3 Heat Points per turn. Because keeping a ’Mech safely moving at such high speeds requires a MechWarrior’s total concentration, a ’Mech that sprints during the Movement Phase of a turn may not make any attacks during the remainder of the turn. Additionally, the ’Mech may not spot for indirect LRM fire or artillery fire or take any other action that would normally require it to sacrifice an attack.

Tactical Ops, pg 18.

There's more, but I'm not going to post it.

There's walking, than running, than sprinting modes.

AKA, it's already there.

It just has to be implemented.

Edited by Pht, 03 April 2012 - 06:15 PM.

[Strum Wealh]

Pht, on 03 April 2012 - 06:15 PM, said:

Tactical Ops, pg 18.

There's more, but I'm not going to post it.

There's walking, than running, than sprinting modes.

AKA, it's already there.

It just has to be implemented.

So... 18-speed 'Mech?

[Pht]

Strum Wealh, on 03 April 2012 - 06:23 PM, said:

So... 18-speed 'Mech?

3 speed, actually.


Basically, the pilot is pushing thier mech beyond it's rated performance speed, and is having to be very careful to do it.

It widens the performance envelope up.