66 replies to this topic

[Pariah Devalis]

Pave Low, on 19 January 2012 - 06:08 AM, said:

This is great. Brave Coffinail: "Ask any questions re. The Clans from birth to death & we'll try & answer.". Brave question mate.

I thought questions might be a bit easy at first...maybe for the less informed, but leading up to the harder questions.

But no: straight away - we have: (To paraphrase the menstrual cycle one) 'Talk about 'Womens socio-biological role in Clan society.' 101 Lolllz.

What is admirable is that people actually knew the answer & from what book!! Amazing. I will have to read up...

I saw no questions, so figured I would throw out a potential stumper as a first hurdle. Why not?

Not entirely sure if it was resolved since the question was aimed in general, not just in Aiden's case, as to how trueborns could accidentally conceive 'technically' freeborn offspring. Kerensky knows they get a lot of action. Half the clan books could almost double as a poor man's "Romance" novel. >_>

[Gremlich Johns]

If you read through the role-play post "Interesting times" in the netbattletech-HC roleplay section, you will see how Clan Blood Spirit dealt with the issue of one bloodnamed warrior (Daryl Keller) and left the others of house Keller "alone". (Ala the Jorgenssons brothers).

[Thorn Hallis]

Jaroth Winson, on 19 January 2012 - 02:51 PM, said:

That clearly was not the case as Hans bore no backlash of his brother's doing. Remember in the Clan's world only that particular Bloodheritage was tainted. It is also why some Bloodheritages are more prestigious than others or some are shunned & scorned.This is sort of like the Clan Coyote Blood Scandal.

It was not the case because Catalyst failed to put this into consideration. You know how emotional the Clans are when it comes to both Kerenskys. Doing harm to Nicholas or even critizing him was a grave mistake by anyone and would have been punished by the all of the clans, no matter the rules and customs. The wolfes fell into a berserker rage after Nicholas Kerensky was killed and annihilate nearly every Widowmaker warrior around, no matter if they had something to do with the death of Nicholas Kerensky or not.

[Jaroth Corbett]

Why do you guys hate Catalyst so much?

[Thorn Hallis]

I don't hate Catalyst. I just don't like senseless retconning.

@dit: Actually I really like that some of Cataclysms releases fill time periods that were only scarcly covered by FASA books. Like Operation Klondike, the Andurien-Canopus Invasion, the Skye Rebellion in the 30's, etc..

Edited by Thorn Hallis, 20 January 2012 - 08:40 AM.

[CoffiNail]

Jaroth Winson, on 20 January 2012 - 07:56 AM, said:

Why do you guys hate Catalyst so much?

In Battletech you have the people who see FASA as the one true Battletech. Anything made after they closed their doors is not proper battletech as the main developers ceased to be part of the franchise and Catalyst has brought, like any company would their own flavour to the IP and a lot of players do not like the flavour. PLUS a lot of peoples issues with Catalyst also stem from the fact they are trying to bridge the storylines of 'classic' Battletech and Dark Ages clixgame. A LOT of players would be happier if Catalyst ignored Dark Ages and made it a alt universe, they did not and yeah.

I like both for what they are.
FASA had the storylines that sucked you in, and the fact almost all material was 'written' in universe as if it was a big comstar document, etc.

Catalyst is continueing and furthering the franchise and keeping it alive, if not out right reviving it.

[MilitantMonk]

You can hate on Catalyst all you want but Operation: Klondike is one of the best Battletech books I've ever read. The bit about the Jorgenssons is just a little parable touching upon the fact that the Clans look at individual accomplishment over family history. One brother's line was struck down and purged and the other is the most prized line in Clan Ghost Bear.

[Thorn Hallis]

Does the book explain why those two brothers were put into seperated clans while every other known siblings were put in the same clan?

[CoffiNail]

Well perhaps Widowmaker was the Clan Hans Jorgensson was to be part of at first. Hans Jorgensson and Sandra Tseng were to be in separate Clans, but due to events they were both put in Clan Ghost Bear.

Edited by CoffiNail, 20 January 2012 - 09:12 AM.

[Thorn Hallis]

CoffiNail, on 20 January 2012 - 09:12 AM, said:

Well perhaps Widowmaker was the Clan Hans Jorgensson was to be part of at first. Hans Jorgensson and Sandra Tseng were to be in separate Clans, but due to events they were both put in Clan Ghost Bear.

Ah, right. Thats an excellent explanation. Thanks, I forgot about that.

[Jaroth Corbett]

MilitantMonk, on 20 January 2012 - 08:52 AM, said:

You can hate on Catalyst all you want but Operation: Klondike is one of the best Battletech books I've ever read. The bit about the Jorgenssons is just a little parable touching upon the fact that the Clans look at individual accomplishment over family history. One brother's line was struck down and purged and the other is the most prized line in Clan Ghost Bear.

indeed. I have not read it in depth as yet but from what I have skimmed, I love all this new information.

CoffiNail, on 20 January 2012 - 09:12 AM, said:

Well perhaps Widowmaker was the Clan Hans Jorgensson was to be part of at first. Hans Jorgensson and Sandra Tseng were to be in separate Clans, but due to events they were both put in Clan Ghost Bear.

Correct. Tseng & Jorgensson wanted to be together & Nicholas's wife "advised" (that is what the book says but I say nagged ) him to let them stay together in Ghost Bear. So maybe he was supposed to be in Widowmaker.

Quote

They were early, vocal supporters of the General's son and eagerly followed him into the Second Exodus. Their loyalty wavered, however, when he initially assigned them to differing Clans; they fled to Strana Mechty's frozen tundra rather than be separated from each other- in the process, giving rise to the legend of the Ghost Bear.

Kerensky, of course, gave in to reason- and the advice of his own wife- and allowed them to remain together, assigning them as Khans of the Clan whose totem gave such legendary protection in the wild.

Historical Operations: Operation Klondike, Pg.121

Edited by Jaroth Winson, 20 January 2012 - 10:03 AM.

[Aaron DeChavilier]

ok legitimate questions:
why is the trial of bloodright have a Grand Melee?
Clan warriors are trained from kids to fight in ritualized combat of Zelllbrigen (to lesser/greater degrees)
a code that demands 1-1 duels as the best possible scenario.

So why is there a Grand Melee? why not a tiered tournament of duels?
couldnt the clans draw a philosophical parallel from the melee to fighting the IS? that when fighting the IS,
it's just gonna be a melee, that its ok not to duel but rather just be the one who wins? wouldnt a Grand Melee
mindset actually show them that honor is dictated by the winners, and an at-all-costs victory is ideal?

Because in a Grand Melee scenario, it's not the strongest or smartest who wins; it's the perfect oppurtunist who
wins, and I don't think clans would like to have their bloodname holders be someone who is weak but can worm
their way out of something...

just a few questions i had
to me that particular of clan warrior society just kinda sticks out.

[Tyzh]

It gives people who do not have or cannot get a sponsor a chance to compete for a bloodname. Winning the Melee does not give you a bloodname, it just helps ensure that all who are worthy have a CHANCE for a bloodname. If the winner of the Grand Melee were really just a weak warrior who was undeserving he would not have been able to defeat all of the nominated warriors to earn the bloodname. It does seems, at any rate, that the Grand Melee is viewed as less ideal than a proper nomination, at least by some.

Quote

But now her dreams had faded, for she had become an old warrior. She still piloted a 'Mech as a warrior of Clan Jade Falcon, but no longer would any Bloodnamed warrior sponsor her for a slot in any Trial of Bloodright. Without a nomination, Joanna's only hope for eligibility was to take part in a Grand Melee, but to that she would never stoop.

Legend of the Jade Phoenix vol. 3: Falcon Guard pp. 5

Edited by Tyzh, 20 January 2012 - 12:15 PM.

[Jaroth Corbett]

Someone asking about the Grand Melee?

[Tyzh]

Aff. Not someone with the best reputation, but I was hoping if I answer the question well enough you might pat me on the head.

[Jaroth Corbett]

LAWL!!!! You explained it well enough.

It is really there just to fill a slot. 32 warriors fight in the Trial but only 31 of the candidates gets sponsored by warriors who already hold the Bloodname. The 32nd slot goes to whoever wins the Grand Melee. It is really not so much about skill or precision as it is about survival.

[Aaron DeChavilier]

thanks for the answer Tyzh, makes me ponder more though.
I read the Jade Phoenix trilogy a long time ago, and forgot;
why do they need sponsors? someone to speak to the efforts in
the warriors codex?

[CoffiNail]

Basically how the sponsor works is they are a currently holding a bloodname of that Blood House. Each of the roughly 23 bloodname holders put a nomination, of someone they feel has done exemplary in the Clan/House and has a honorable career. The person who is the Bloodhouse keeper, the person who is 'head' of the Bloodline picks the remaining candidates for a total of 31 nominations. The Clans obsession with 5 comes in to play here. You must compete vs 25 rivals to gain the bloodname.

32 contestants start in round one, 16 will fight in round 2, 8 in the third round, 4 in the fourth and finally the final battle of 1 vs 1.

the last slot of the first round is the Grand Melee, which is the chance for anyone not able to get a sponsor to have the chance to compete.

The Grand Melee is more of a showmanship part though. As the winner of the Grand Melee still has to maintain his mech if his first round of the Trial of Bloodright ends up being augmented, or they can receive bodily harm during the Grand Melee, very rarely does the winner of the Grand Melee win the whole tournament. If by chance that warrior wins the Grand Melee, and then also proceeds to win his other rounds and in the end wins the Bloodname, well might makes right to the Clans. Even if the individual has a level of dishonor, or just has a mediocre codex history, to come above the odds and win the Bloodname shows skill and strength.

Anything else I can try to Clarify Aaron.

[Jaroth Corbett]

Everything CoffiNail said = Aidan Pryde

[CoffiNail]

Jaroth Winson, on 20 January 2012 - 01:37 PM, said:

Everything CoffiNail said = Aidan Pryde

Aidan Pryde was a storyline fluke hahaha. It is like the Inner Sphere actually stopping the clans, or the Wolf's Dragoons coming in from a society that apparently had no intelligence espionage for over 100 years suddenly being better then the IS Houses Intelligence networks, or the Inner Sphere taking out Smoke Jaguar...

Edited by CoffiNail, 20 January 2012 - 03:01 PM.