61 replies to this topic

[DuskAU]

Hey everybody, total beginner at mech games here.

I made a thread earlier about peoples history and introduction into MW games, and someone posted about using a keyboard and mouse like it was a bad thing; after lurking the forums abit I get the general impression that a joystick is the way to go in MW games?

This I don't really understand, I've played a fair few FPS games, but never any simulations. What makes a joystick better?

The traditional FPS setup is

WASD - Movement
Shift/Ctrl - Walk/Crouch
Space - Jump
E - Use or Activate
R - Reload

Mouse for X and Y axis
Left button for primary fire
Right for secondary
Additonal for scrolling weapons, quick select.

How many more controls do you need to pilot a mech?

What is your ideal setup and how did you come across your chosen method? Did you change styles to get better results?

I've never used a gaming joystick!


EDIT ----

Was just thinking, do some setups give advantages over other setups based on your role as a mech? For example:
Does Joystick + Mouse gives you an advantage in a straight up 1on1 battle in close quarters?
Does Joystick + Keyboard make you a little bit more precise in long range targetting?

Just trying to get an overall feel about the control methods that can be used in MW games!

Cheers for any input!

PS: Any story's about your prowess as a mech commander in battle would be great to read!

Edited by DuskAU, 21 January 2012 - 10:48 PM.

[Graphite]

Well the first difference that springs to mind is that BT mechs have torso twist: in other words all your movement controls are offset by the angle between your torso and your legs.

Some joysticks have a handle twist axis which can be assigned to torso twist.

The "best" setup will probably be MWO specific - it'll depend on how the game handles controls.

Edited by Graphite, 21 January 2012 - 10:56 PM.

[trycksh0t]

I know you're new, so I did not mean to laugh at you. However, when I read "How many more controls do you need to pilot a 'Mech", I nearly fell out of my chair. That being said, I'll attempt to give you a rundown of what 'Mech controls can be like:

WSAD for movement just doesn't work too well, because it's not just Walk/Sprint. 'Mechs are controlled by throttle settings, anywhere between full reverse and full throttle ahead, so joy-stick throttles are the way to go. Jump-Jets don't just make your 'Mech jump, they can be used to change trajectories without having to turn your 'Mech, allowing for jump-strafing, reverse-jumping, changing direction mid-jump...you get the idea. Multiple weapon groups are generally a must (I know many MechWarriors use 3-6 groups), so each group needs it's own button for fast selecting, cycling through weapons takes time, and time=life. Then there's different vision toggles for IR, MagRes, Visible Light, as well as radar/sensor controls. I know I'm missing a lot, suffice to say piloting a 'Mech can get complicated.

Also, there's just a certain feeling you get with a joystick that KB + mouse doesn't offer, you really feel like you're driving a multi-ton war-machine capable of leveling half of any major city on the planet.

I hope that helps to clear up a few of the differences between being a MechWarrior and being a simple foot-soldier.

[DuskAU]

trycksh0t, on 21 January 2012 - 11:04 PM, said:

I know you're new, so I did not mean to laugh at you. However, when I read "How many more controls do you need to pilot a 'Mech", I nearly fell out of my chair. That being said, I'll attempt to give you a rundown of what 'Mech controls can be like:

Haha, well; I guess everybody has to start somewhere right?

I still don't fully understand or grasp the concept of 'too much to do with a keyboard and mouse' but I really liked your point on immersing yourself in the game.

What type of joysticks are generally good for MW gaming? I did a quick google image search and came up with the first result that stood out:

http://www.pocitacov...mg/joystick.jpg

That looks like it has a huge amount of buttons and controls on it, would a keyboard or mouse be needed in conjunction with that sort of joystick to play?

How do you set your mech up? Joystick alone, with a mouse or keyboard? What do you mean weapon groupings? I'm guess you don't mean something like:

Press:
#1 - Blaster
#2 - Shotgun

If you could go into abit more detail I would appreciate it alot. Like I said, I am completly new to this style of game, but massive robots have always been cool to me!

Thanks for your time!

[trycksh0t]

I'm partial to joystick and keyboard, but everyone has their own preferences. Weapon groupings are exactly what they sound like, but I can certainly explain a bit better. I'll use a Catapult, since it's a simple setup.

A standard Catapult has 2 LRM15s and 4 Medium lasers. Firing all of these weapons together is ludicrous, as they are effective at different ranges i.e. LRMs are long-range weapons, while medium lasers are much shorter ranged. So, what I like to do is put the two LRM15s into Group 1, as they are my primary weapons. I then assign group 1 to my Trigger. I would then split the medium lasers into two seperate groups, 2 lasers in group 2 assigned to a thumb button, and the other two in group 3, assigned to another button. This way, I have complete control over what weapons to fire depending on the situation.

Using a keyboard + mouse CAN be a bit different. I typically assign the upper row number keys to SELECT the corresponding weapon grouping, using the mouse to fire the selected group. This is a bit more FPS-ish, almost exactly like 1= pistol, 2= shotgun, etc...except in this case, 1 = LRMs, 2 = 2 medium lasers, 3 = other 2 medium lasers, or you can use the mouse-wheel to cycle through selecting those groups, just like switching weapons. Now, you can use a mouse similarly to a joystick for firing different groups without having to select it first (Usually, if the game allows the setting) if you've got more than just the 3 standard buttons. I've got a 5 button mouse, so mouse 1 (left-click) fires group 1, and the two thumb buttons fire the other two groups (I almost never have more than 3 weapon groups, it's just how I am).

Hope that clears things up a bit. If it was at all confusing, I'm sure somebody can clarify it better.

Edit: Checked out that joystick pic you posted up, looks like it'd be fairly decent. Built-in throttle on the back is nice to have.

Edited by trycksh0t, 21 January 2012 - 11:42 PM.

[CatJock]

I can shed some light on this, since I just got a brand new joystick not three weeks ago and have experience with just a keyboard and a keyboard and joystick combo.

One word: wow.

There is a *heck* of a lot of difference between using the keyboard alone and using a joystick. For one thing, as was mentioned, torso twisting is a must to master, and doing it with the keyboard is clumsy. On Mechwarrior IV, the control setup is the numberpad controls the torso twist and the turning, as well as the elevation of the cockpit pod. Your buttons to fire the three main weapon groups are Insert, Home, and Pageup, and the throttle is controlled by the other number keys, 0-9. Reverse is controlled by pressing the Backspace key, zoom by pressing Z, switching from first to third person by pressing V, etc.

Bottom line, it's a beast to control with the keyboard, as it should be, because at it's core Mechwarrior is a simulator, not an FPS. It *simulates* controlling a multi-ton war machine 30 feet tall, so there are a lot of controls, making controlling it with a keyboard very burdensome.

But with a joystick, almost all of the relevant controls are built into the stick, so everything's at your fingertips. My hands seldom leave the joystick, and it's a dream to pilot compared to using the keyboard. You torso twist by twistting the handle on your joystick, and all aiming is done by moving the stick around, so the machine you're controlling almost becomes an extension of your own body.

My only suggestion: find a joystick where the throttle is in a separate module from the stick itself. You're going to be using that thing a *lot* and it's pretty hard on my left wrist after several hours of play when I'm done because my throttle is in the base of the stick.

[Conradiqlous]

I've used a keyboard and mouse since mw2. I've tried the joystick, I just don't like it. But I have also tried a gamepad, and I like that almost as much a keyboard and mouse. All of these setups easily have enough buttons for at least 4 weapon groups. It's all just a matter of preference, so try a few different setups out, and see what you like!

[DuskAU]

trycksh0t, on 21 January 2012 - 11:38 PM, said:

Edit: Checked out that joystick pic you posted up, looks like it'd be fairly decent. Built-in throttle on the back is nice to have.

First off, thanks for your reply! It's great for a beginner like me to have people provide good information and set me down the right path before the game has even come out!

What do you mean built in throttle on the back? By looking at that pic I was assuming the throttle would be the blue tab just below the 'genius' logo?

Also, just as a hypothetical question; if you had that joystick, how would you configure it in a MW setup? It just looks like it has so many buttons!

CatJock, on 21 January 2012 - 11:54 PM, said:

My only suggestion: find a joystick where the throttle is in a separate module from the stick itself. You're going to be using that thing a *lot* and it's pretty hard on my left wrist after several hours of play when I'm done because my throttle is in the base of the stick.

What do you mean by separate module from the stick?
I gather you mean; the throttle button is not on the joystick itself but instead on the base of it? So you can control it with your other hand?

To be honest I think because I am a total beginner I am missing a basic understanding of how the mech works and what would actually work in a control setup and what wouldn't.

Does anyone have any arguments for or against joystick only vs joystick + mouse/keyboard?
Because that joystick looks like it can do everything that would be needed?

Once again, thanks for all the input and quality information!

[Krul]

Sim, all the way. Just have to choose which one I want to go with.

[Graphite]

DuskAU, on 22 January 2012 - 12:38 AM, said:

To be honest I think because I am a total beginner I am missing a basic understanding of how the mech works and what would actually work in a control setup and what wouldn't.

Get MW Living Legends (free mod for Crysis Wars) and take that for a spin (or even MW4 [free] if you don't want to buy Crysis Wars) - should give a reasonable idea of what to expect.

[Kip Wilson]

During my MW4 days, I my best setup was the mouse for aiming and my Thrustmaster T Flight Throttle quadrant for throttle control, torso twisting and secondary button controls (jump jets, alt targeting ect..). The throttle had about 6 buttons and a rocker switch (rudder) for the torso twist. It was a pretty effective combination.

[Dakkonn]

Krul, on 22 January 2012 - 12:50 AM, said:

Sim, all the way. Just have to choose which one I want to go with.

I was looking into those. I need to buy a new joystick for MWO (maybe a throttle too if I can afford it) but its A hard to find something like the one I had (back in my MW:2 merc days) and B justifying the purchase since I would ONLY use it for MWO (usually if I buy a peripheral its for multiple uses not just one game) but then again I do LOVE Mechwarrior something fierce.

[Omigir]

This is how I map my mouse and key board:
W = Accelerate
S= DeAccelerate
A= turn left
D = turn right
E= clossest enemy
Q = target enmey under redicle
Spacebar = Jump jets

1-0 = Speed % (Example 1 = 0% speed, 6= 50% speed 0=100%)
Caps = Reverse
Shift = Crouch

Left mouse = Fire selected Group
Right mouse = Next group


I know what your going through, going from a FPS like CoD to this is kind of a trip and there are allot more things a mech can do, but these basics should get you moving and you can change depending on what you need.

Think of it like a giant walking tank or a jet that rotates on a pair of legs. ; p

Edited by Omigir, 22 January 2012 - 03:13 AM.

[Kaizo45]

While I haven't been playing for very long, the keyboard and mouse route is the way I go, WS being de/accelerate, AD turning the legs, and various other buttons assigned to the other mech functions. Different strokes for different folks, but it's worked like a dream

Joystick accel does sound enticing though, but it's up to you on what you'll pick.

[Reno Blade]

i used to play Keyb + Mouse, but i had a Stick since MW3 and it was awesome.
lately i changed to the above posted (first pic) Saitec X52 stick for MW LL.
With the keyboard my favorite was the numpad for throttle and turning as well as the corner keys there for the weapon groups.
completely without the keyboard can be a bit tricky and you need to get used to the feel of where your buttons are.

one big difference between stick and mouse is the force and precision.
with the mouse you have a very good aim, but with the stick, you can do longer turns, (specially for flight simulators) where you would have moved your mouse over and over over your desk.

[KingCobra]

This is what i use inside my Kodiak Simpit ill show you some time a home built kodiak with working 50cals

[Undead]

How do I pilot my mech? In the most awesome manner possible of course.

For a control scheme I use the following

W = Accelerate
S = Decelerate
A = Turn left
D = Turn right
1-0 = Throttle 0%-100%
Spacebar = Fire jump jets
Drag Mouse left = Torso twist left
Drag Mouse right = Torso twist right
Drag Mouse up = Pitch torso down
Drag Mouse down = Pitch torso up
Left Mouse button = Fire selected weapon/group
Right Mouse Button = Select Weapon/group
Mouse Wheel up = Toggle Zoom window
Mouse Wheel down = Target object under reticle
Mouse Button 3 = Voice Chat
Mouse Button 4 = Toggle Reverse

[gunghoblazes]

Undead, on 22 January 2012 - 08:30 AM, said:

How do I pilot my mech? In the most awesome manner possible of course.

For a control scheme I use the following

W = Accelerate
S = Decelerate
A = Turn left
D = Turn right
1-0 = Throttle 0%-100%
Spacebar = Fire jump jets
Drag Mouse left = Torso twist left
Drag Mouse right = Torso twist right
Drag Mouse up = Pitch torso down
Drag Mouse down = Pitch torso up
Left Mouse button = Fire selected weapon/group
Right Mouse Button = Select Weapon/group
Mouse Wheel up = Toggle Zoom window
Mouse Wheel down = Target object under reticle
Mouse Button 3 = Voice Chat
Mouse Button 4 = Toggle Reverse

Almost the exact way I have mine mapped, just about FPSish as you can get.

[RBL Acehigh]

I use a joystick for basic movement and weapons control. With 8 buttons it makes weapon selection and firing much easier. Trigger is my main weapon, button 2 is secondary main weapon, 3 tertiary weapon ect. Also have a button set for my zoom, scope. But with that said I'm also a hybrid player with mech warrior. What I mean by that is I use the keyboard to control my throttle, forward/reverse, radar, and chat log. little tricky at first, but once you get the hang of it this is not a bad set up. And it was already mentioned but torso twist on the stick is a must have.

[IceSerpent]

DuskAU, on 21 January 2012 - 11:25 PM, said:

How do you set your mech up? Joystick alone, with a mouse or keyboard? What do you mean weapon groupings? I'm guess you don't mean something like:

Press:
#1 - Blaster
#2 - Shotgun

If you could go into abit more detail I would appreciate it alot. Like I said, I am completly new to this style of game, but massive robots have always been cool to me!

Thanks for your time!

Weapon groupings are multiple weapons you want to fire at once. The selection depends on a few things:
- Range to target. Self-explanatory - you don't want to fire short range weapons at a target far away
- Your current heat situation - you would want to fire just low heat weapons when you're overheating
- Weapon type. Missiles generally go into separate group as they require lock, mixing lasers (that have instant projectile travel time) with other weapons (that have slower projevtile travel time) makes it impossible to properly lead the target at long range.
- Depending on the loadout, you might also want a separate group for alpha-strike (fire everything at once).

In most cases you will end up with at least 3 groups.

Now, regarding the joystick setup, I used Logitech Extreme 3D Pro fro MW4 (I'm too cheap to get full HOTAS setup lol). Stick forward/back = lean forwards/backwards. Stick left/right = turn. Stick twist = torso twist. Throttle = move forward/reverse and speed. Hat = look around. Buttons on the stick = weapon groups and zoom window. Buttons on the base = target nearest enemy, target next enemy, toggle jump jets, override shutdown, flush coolant, toggle radar active/pasive. The rest of controls were on the keyboard (target friendlies / object under reticle, toggle radar/map, crouch, etc. - don't remember all of them).