155 replies to this topic

[Tsen Shang]

Alex Wolfe, on 30 January 2012 - 10:27 AM, said:

...and that's what is such an outrage? Redesigning the head to be more in-line with most other mech designs (who don't have "necks", nor would they have need for them realistically speaking), two pieces of "Centurion"-themed flair and toes that look like the machine could actually walk on them, instead of rigid duck-slippers feet?

De gustibus and all that, but it's hardly doom and gloom. It's not "changed completely so it's entirely", for sure.

So instead of going the traditional route, I'm just gonna use pictures to respond to your ludicrous post.

One of these things is not like the others:






















(twtmas deviantart)



Don't believe me? Fine, I'll go home = /





(Prime-mover deviantart)

Edit: Just for clarification...AGAIN: Yes, the mech in the middle looks cool. No, it's not a Centurion.

Edited by Tsen Shang, 30 January 2012 - 11:02 AM.

[Alex Wolfe]

Tsen Shang, on 30 January 2012 - 11:01 AM, said:

So instead of going the traditional route, I'm just gonna use pictures to respond to your ludicrous post.

Ludicrous, eh? Care to explain what was it that you found such, then?

So... "witty" pic post aside, are the similiarities in design I mentioned there, or not? Because if they are (and they ARE), then you might be blowing it out of proportion, just a bit. Heck, on the deviantart pic, where it strikes a similar pose, even you can probably see them plain as day. Differences: two panels, cockpit (T shape instad of line), toes and the dreaded neck. Elements carried over: everything else.

But then again, I guess nostalgia goggles are quite dim.

Edited by Alex Wolfe, 30 January 2012 - 11:15 AM.

[Omigir]

the second to last Centurion there is an 'aneme' centurion, look close at the pilot, she has anime eyes. disqualified! XP

the the therd to last has two toes, there for it is not a centurion, also disqualified XD

My point is, this is a reboot with close ties. Yes the Centurion has been redesigned to the point where it is hard to recogognise, but let me venture out and say that its not totaly un-identifiable. People recognised its siloet in hunchback cockpit picture back when they posted those up in Nov or Oct of last year.

Either way, it was time that some of these mechs get injected with awesome sauce and got an updated look. Cant make an omlet without breaking some eggs. Or getting maybe just eating more eggs with lots of rice and chicken. Then throwing around some weights and doing some power squats and jumping jacks and runing up and down stairs or bleachers. then dancing at the foot of some official builing and yelling 'adrian' at an apartment complex in the middle of the night. : \

[Heronimus Bosch]

Tsen Shang, on 30 January 2012 - 11:01 AM, said:

So instead of going the traditional route, I'm just gonna use pictures to respond to your ludicrous post.

One of these things is not like the others:






















(twtmas deviantart)



Don't believe me? Fine, I'll go home = /





(Prime-mover deviantart)

Edit: Just for clarification...AGAIN: Yes, the mech in the middle looks cool. No, it's not a Centurion.

O yes it is, it is the MWO Centurion.

Remember the Devs have stated that they will stick to the cannon as much as possible but that they are using an offset time line meaning that there are slight differences with the established timeline. This and the other redesigns are some of those differences.
The others will occur when the battles for planets start.

[Aaron DeChavilier]

that is the best shot of a centy ever, so dejected
with its A\C10, 2ML's it thought it could play with the Atlas'....
guess not

[Omigir]

Aaron DeChavilier, on 30 January 2012 - 11:40 AM, said:

that is the best shot of a centy ever, so dejected
with its A\C10, 2ML's it thought it could play with the Atlas'....
guess not

Its looking down like that becuase it was sent away and only could play with the infantry.. Its really sad when Loki gets to hang out with the big boys and you get stuck at the knuckle dragger's table pretending to drink tea.

[tyrone dunkirk]

In reality, the new Centurion ( it is a centurion. It's a redesign. A reboot. It's canon. Come at me.) actually looks more functional, and more like a piece of equipment than a man in a metal suit. It looks more like an armored vehicle. For the purists who dislike the design because it deviates too far from the original, well, things change. Its still looks like a Centurion. It's not as hard to tell the difference between the new and the original as some would lead you to believe. I, personally, like it. I think it's a much needed face lift for the old girl.

[Tsen Shang]

Sigh.

Alex Wolfe, on 30 January 2012 - 10:27 AM, said:

Preserved elements of the original design:
- Hunanoid manwalker, check.
- Flair bit on the head, reminescent of its namesake, check.
- Autocannon in right arm, hand in left, check.
- Laser in CT, missile rack in LT, check.
- Wide hips with thin center section, INCORRECT.
- Shoulders risen above chest level, (I think you mean shoulderpad) check.
- More slender build compared to its fellow 50-tonner Hunchback, (irrelevant nonsequitor) check.

Similarities:
-Humanoid
-Head crest
-Weapons in the same place

That's it, and those are all generic save the crest, which I discuss later.

Alex Wolfe, on 30 January 2012 - 10:27 AM, said:

Differences:
- Head tucked in
- Two more panels resembling small shields
- Different cockpit "face"
- Actual toes

Differences:
-The head has been dropped by...a head, removing the most distinguishing feature of the mech. (head + fin made it easily recognizable) This changes the outline of the mech.
-Two panels have been added:
1)The arm shield thing is fine, it's just unnecessary flair; the original Centurion wasn't fancy. It's a step in the wrong direction but not a huge deal.
2)The shoulder panel in conjunction with the torso mounted head removes the most identifying feature. Sure, it looks cool, and it would still be cool if the head were up high and could be seen, but it can't. Every shoulder pad on every other Centurion hasn't drawn attention to itself. Is this Centurion supposed to be jousting or something? It isn't even protecting anything! It's superfluous. This changes the outline of the mech.
-Different cockpit face looks cool. It's not the same, but is a perfect example of a small but good update.
-Toes. Check every other humanoid mech in Battletech; you may find one with hooves, platforms, stabilizers, etc, but not toes. Toes are for bird mechs and they don't fit the overall aesthetic of the original Centurion. They're unnecessarily fancy on a mech that isn't supposed to be flashy.
-Claw hand instead of human hand. Pretty much same deal as above. Doesn't kill it, but it fits in the 'why did you do that' category.
-Torso/waist connector: If you look at the original pictures, you'll see that the torso slowly tapers to be slightly smaller, but is still big/fat/thick. Instead what has happened is the torso STOPS HALFWAY, and the thin groin is elongated upwards to meet the torso. This is actually a huge difference. You'll notice the same difference in the deviantart image that is similar. This changes the outline of the mech.

There are too many sweeping changes to the mech for it to be easily recognizable.

Alex Wolfe, on 30 January 2012 - 10:27 AM, said:

...and that's what is such an outrage? Redesigning the head to be more in-line with most other mech designs (who don't have "necks", nor would they have need for them realistically speaking), two pieces of "Centurion"-themed flair and toes that look like the machine could actually walk on them, instead of rigid duck-slippers feet?

Most humanoid mechs in Battletech have heads on necks, especially this time period: Wasp, Stinger, Javelin, Commando, Spider, Valkyrie, Firestarter, Panther, Clint, Hermes 2, Whitworth, Hatchetman, Phoenix Hawk, Vindicator, Enforcer, Trebuchet, Dervish, Griffin, and the Shadowhawk. I left out the ones that don't have heads with necks or are bird like and I didn't go above mediums. What 'most other mechs' are you talking about? In the future from our 3040 styles? The time periods we aren't starting out in? It isn't until 3055 that most humanoid mechs lose necks, and since the timeline is moving in real time, that means we won't get those mechs for 5 years. (or 2-3 if they put them out when most of the prototypes were launched) 2014-2017.

Alex Wolfe, on 30 January 2012 - 11:06 AM, said:

But then again, I guess nostalgia goggles are quite dim.

Nostalgia goggles are why this game is getting made. The developers and the people at Catalyst felt that people like/love Battletech/Mechwarrior enough to be able to make a successful game. You should be hugging everyone's nostalgia goggles.

[Chuckie]

Tsen Shang, on 30 January 2012 - 11:01 AM, said:

So instead of going the traditional route, I'm just gonna use pictures to respond to your ludicrous post.

Just for clarification...AGAIN: Yes, the mech in the middle looks cool. No, it's not a Centurion.

OK..



Want me to point out the DIFFERENCES between all the hand drawn Mechs..?

Looks like a good canon interpretation of a Centurion to me.. As good as any of the hand drawn mechs in your post anyway.. Heck one of yours had accordions for knees.. What was up with that.. ?

Difference here is that it was drawn by a professional, is in color, and is an interpretation of hand sketches from 20 years ago. He is drawing all the Mechs in the same style, partially because he is an artist and thats what they do... and secondly there maybe a functional game driven reason..

So why don't you stop with your ludicrous posts..

The MW4 Centurion had a lot of differences too.. like football shoulder pads, the missiles in the wrong area, etc.. so I think you are all being a bit nit picky.. looks better than the MW4 version..

Edited by Chuckie, 30 January 2012 - 01:19 PM.

[Tsen Shang]

Chuckie, on 30 January 2012 - 12:41 PM, said:

Looks like a good canon interpretation of a Centurion to me.

It changes a good deal of the Centurion's body, but keeps the head. It's a good interpretation. The new one takes those changes and adds a lot more, which makes it a bad interpretation. The fan drawn one is a bridge between the original and the new, the main difference being the new removes the head, which makes the Centurion distinct. Take out the head or put the head in the torso on the fan drawn one and it won't be a Centurion anymore, just some random stompy robot.

Chuckie, on 30 January 2012 - 12:41 PM, said:

So why don't you stop with your ludicrous posts.

This is a forum. A forum is a place to discuss things. I'd like to discuss how the Centurion looks, and how I don't really like it. You don't want to? Get out of my thread.

[Aaron DeChavilier]

I dunno, I guess the hand drawn sketch stands 'more proudly' if that makes sense
and the chunkiness gives it a more robotic feel than the more organic lineart and outline
the new one has. Like i said, the new one is ok, but if it was cleaned up just a bit more it
would be epic and I think thats what gets a lot of us grognards - that it is a step in the right
direction but more of a half-step

[Solis Obscuri]

Alex Wolfe, on 30 January 2012 - 10:27 AM, said:

"Completely" and "entirely"? "Removed identity"?

Preserved elements of the original design:

- Hunanoid manwalker, check.
- Flair bit on the head, reminescent of its namesake, check.
- Autocannon in right arm, hand in left, check.
- Laser in CT, missile rack in LT, check.
- Wide hips with thin center section, check.
- Shoulders risen above chest level, check.
- More slender build compared to its fellow 50-tonner Hunchback, check.

Differences:

- Head tucked in
- Two more panels resembling small shields
- Different cockpit "face"
- Actual toes

...and that's what is such an outrage? Redesigning the head to be more in-line with most other mech designs (who don't have "necks", nor would they have need for them realistically speaking), two pieces of "Centurion"-themed flair and toes that look like the machine could actually walk on them, instead of rigid duck-slippers feet?

De gustibus and all that, but it's hardly doom and gloom. It's not "changed completely so it's entirely", for sure.

I'd actually take issue with the statements in bold. The Centurion was always a fairly slim design, and thinner through the hips than many I.S. mechs. The new one is about as broad as the Hunchback, but with less mass in the torso and more in the arms and legs. (Though, of course, the stance of the Centurion exagerates this effect a bit, too.)


I like the more aggressive appearance, and I like the addition of armor plates, but the scale of the limbs off - I think slimming those down a bit and lengthening the torso relative to the rest of the 'mech would bring the silhouette back into line with the traditional design, while holding on to the better parts of the new one. Still, I recognize this is a concept sketch - it has a lot of good points, but I don't necessarily expect the final copy to match exactly - we've already seen the Dragon concept revised with a lower arm actuator, after all.

[Alex Wolfe]

Solis Obscuri, on 30 January 2012 - 01:13 PM, said:

I'd actually take issue with the statements in bold. The Centurion was always a fairly slim design, and thinner through the hips than many I.S. mechs. The new one is about as broad as the Hunchback, but with less mass in the torso and more in the arms and legs. (Though, of course, the stance of the Centurion exagerates this effect a bit, too.)

I like the more aggressive appearance, and I like the addition of armor plates, but the scale of the limbs off - I think slimming those down a bit and lengthening the torso relative to the rest of the 'mech would bring the silhouette back into line with the traditional design, while holding on to the better parts of the new one. Still, I recognize this is a concept sketch - it has a lot of good points, but I don't necessarily expect the final copy to match exactly - we've already seen the Dragon concept revised with a lower arm actuator, after all.

Um... on the pics you linked (assuming they're to scale), Centurion's "thigh" and hip width are both about 20% slimmer than Hunchback's, not to mention calves, so... I'd say it's quite a bit more slender - just as wide overall, but with way slimmer build. The torso is way less "blocky" as well. It also seems a bit taller.

And when I mentioned "wide hips", I didn't mean "in relation to other mechs", just visibly protruding to the sides from below the "waist" area.

Off topic, I hate that new Dragon's lower arm actuator, canon or not... somehow makes the whole machine seem way less intimidating. Also, no idea why change the cockpit there, the previous "flat-topped" blended nicely with the elongated center torso... baffling.

Edited by Alex Wolfe, 30 January 2012 - 01:36 PM.

[Chuckie]

Tsen Shang, on 30 January 2012 - 12:49 PM, said:

This is a forum. A forum is a place to discuss things. I'd like to discuss how the Centurion looks, and how I don't really like it. You don't want to? Get out of my thread.

I was only referencing your ( a bit self-righteous ) comment to quote : " to respond to your ludicrous post. "

If you hate the MW:O one then you all must have hated the MW4 one.. as it looks terrible and even less like the original than the new version.

Edited by Chuckie, 30 January 2012 - 01:25 PM.

[Heronimus Bosch]

Tsen Shang, on 30 January 2012 - 12:49 PM, said:

This is a forum. A forum is a place to discuss things. I'd like to discuss how the Centurion looks, and how I don't really like it. You don't want to? Get out of my thread.

Do you mean that only your point of view, as the OP, has any validity?
Because that is how your statement reads, with its inherent contradiction.

edit for grammar

Edited by Heronimus Bosch, 30 January 2012 - 01:29 PM.

[Chuckie]

Tsen Shang, on 26 January 2012 - 01:39 AM, said:

I love the new direction the art has taken the mechs. I've been amazed at how awesome the new designs look so far..

They released the AWESOME... missed that one.

[azaptyE]

So, if not on the neck, where does the beard go?

[Chuckie]

azaptyE, on 30 January 2012 - 01:35 PM, said:

So, if not on the neck, where does the beard go?

Here : http://mwomercs.com/...post__p__100112

[Lightfoot]

In Japanese mecha the machines, gears, etc., look like robots and quite often have heads and carry weapons in their hands. In Mechwarrior the 'mechs look more like walking tanks with mounted weapons wherein the torso becomes the turret.

The MWO Centurion fits the look and function of the other MW 'mechs. And, I don't think they could balance having one 'mech that could turn it's head, not to mention the time it would take to code the thing. It would be a nightmare to pilot too, you would need a fifth axis on your controller.

Every MW game that comes out the 'mechs look a little different. I have my favorites, but I never let engineering differences interfere with my RP. I just look at it as that is the model the unit gave me to pilot.

Edited by Lightfoot, 30 January 2012 - 01:43 PM.

[Tsen Shang]

Heronimus Bosch, on 30 January 2012 - 01:27 PM, said:

Do you mean that only your point of view, as the OP, has any validity?
Because that is how your statement reads, with its inherent contradiction.

Not at all. That was a response to being told to stop making ludicrous posts, which I took to mean 'stop complaining about the new design' which I won't do. Since it's a forum and all that.

Chuckie has since clarified, so you can ignore my response, since it's no longer valid:

Chuckie, on 30 January 2012 - 01:23 PM, said:

I was only referencing your ( a bit self-righteous ) comment to quote : " to respond to your ludicrous post. "

Self-righteous is how I roll. I'm right until proven wrong. Since I don't feel I've been proven wrong, I'm right.

Edited by Tsen Shang, 30 January 2012 - 01:49 PM.