155 replies to this topic

[Aaron DeChavilier]

Tsen Shang, on 30 January 2012 - 01:44 PM, said:

Self-righteous is how I roll. I'm right until proven wrong. Since I don't feel I've been proven wrong, I'm right.

well...this is all opinion, thus no one is ever objectively 'right.' let's be honest here, you raise valid points, so does the other side.
if this is the centy we get, then w/e I'll drive it - its the dev's choice how it looks anyway.

[Chuckie]

Tsen Shang, on 30 January 2012 - 01:44 PM, said:

Self-righteous is how I roll. I'm right until proven wrong. Since I don't feel I've been proven wrong, I'm right.

You even have the right to be wrong until proven right.. Which is a right I will gladly give you

[trycksh0t]

I was trying not to get dragged into this, but I'll do it anyway. I will concede the point that the new does not bear as much of a resemblance to the original as the other redesigns. Now, with that being said, IMO out of all the 'Mechs released so far, the Centurion was the only one that was badly in need of a new look. The old Centurion was laughable, it looked anorexic. Roman Centurions were intimidating and to be feared on sight, the new look captures that.

As for the head being the "defining characteristic" of the Centurion, take another look at the new one. The head shape is EXACTLY the same, it's just no longer mounted on an unnecessary neck. The only thing the redesign has done is beefed up the Centurion so that it looks like it has 8.5 tons of armor on it instead of looking like a 10-year old strapped a couple pieces of cardboard on himself as a Halloween costume.

[Sesambrot]

The MWO-Centurion now looks that way, and most likely will not change because you keep on ranting about how "not right" it is!

Here's an advice:

[Solis Obscuri]

trycksh0t, on 30 January 2012 - 02:22 PM, said:

I was trying not to get dragged into this, but I'll do it anyway. I will concede the point that the new does not bear as much of a resemblance to the original as the other redesigns. Now, with that being said, IMO out of all the 'Mechs released so far, the Centurion was the only one that was badly in need of a new look. The old Centurion was laughable, it looked anorexic. Roman Centurions were intimidating and to be feared on sight, the new look captures that.

As for the head being the "defining characteristic" of the Centurion, take another look at the new one. The head shape is EXACTLY the same, it's just no longer mounted on an unnecessary neck. The only thing the redesign has done is beefed up the Centurion so that it looks like it has 8.5 tons of armor on it instead of looking like a 10-year old strapped a couple pieces of cardboard on himself as a Halloween costume.

Newer design that just looks awkward, spindly limbs and polygonal torso that doesn't make sense:



Older design that looks pretty formidable, but less like a 'roided out linebacker:



Megatron from Transformers 2:

[Alex Wolfe]

^ Definitive proof that necks aren't everything.

Edited by Alex Wolfe, 30 January 2012 - 04:19 PM.

[Tsen Shang]

trycksh0t, on 30 January 2012 - 02:22 PM, said:

I will concede the point that the new does not bear as much of a resemblance to the original as the other redesigns.

You seem to be the only one willing to admit it.

trycksh0t, on 30 January 2012 - 02:22 PM, said:

Now, with that being said, IMO out of all the 'Mechs released so far, the Centurion was the only one that was badly in need of a new look. The old Centurion was laughable, it looked anorexic. Roman Centurions were intimidating and to be feared on sight, the new look captures that.

Agreed, it definitely needed a revamp.

trycksh0t, on 30 January 2012 - 02:22 PM, said:

As for the head being the "defining characteristic" of the Centurion, take another look at the new one. The head shape is EXACTLY the same, it's just no longer mounted on an unnecessary neck. The only thing the redesign has done is beefed up the Centurion so that it looks like it has 8.5 tons of armor on it instead of looking like a 10-year old strapped a couple pieces of cardboard on himself as a Halloween costume.

How can the head shape be exactly the same if it's halfway in the torso? Would your best friend / wife / girlfriend be nearly as recognizable if half her head was in her chest? If they hadn't buried the head, the whole design would be much better and all the other things would be easy to overlook.

But instead, we have a hunchbacked barbie doll with toes and a gun on one arm.

[Alex Wolfe]

Tsen Shang, on 30 January 2012 - 04:34 PM, said:

You seem to be the only one willing to admit it.

This redesign being the most radical one is pretty obvious so not even worth mentioning, it's the exaggeration of

Tsen Shang, on 30 January 2012 - 10:14 AM, said:

Changing an old mech completely so it's entirely unlike its original counterpart removes the identity of the original mech. This is why I am upset.

that seems baffling. But then again, if even with this...

Chuckie, on 30 January 2012 - 12:41 PM, said:

...you're still unwilling to admit that it was quite an exaggeration if not flat out wrong, then... I guess you won't be willing to admit it. Which is the way of the internet forums, so it's all just as well. I guess you have the right to be as upset as you like.

Tsen Shang, on 30 January 2012 - 04:34 PM, said:

But instead, we have a hunchbacked barbie doll with toes and a gun on one arm.

So the "regular" Centurion would be a straight-backed barbie doll sans toes and with a gun on one arm?

Edited by Alex Wolfe, 30 January 2012 - 04:46 PM.

[trycksh0t]

Tsen Shang, on 30 January 2012 - 04:34 PM, said:

How can the head shape be exactly the same if it's halfway in the torso? Would your best friend / wife / girlfriend be nearly as recognizable if half her head was in her chest? If they hadn't buried the head, the whole design would be much better and all the other things would be easy to overlook.

Old Centurion head - Elongated at the back with the defining centurion crest, slanted brow leading down to the cockpit area.

New Centurion head - Elongated at the back, crest remains, slanted brow leading down to the cockpit area. Regardless of whether it's sunk into the shoulders or not, the standard shape is still the same.

But instead, we have a hunchbacked barbie doll with toes and a gun on one arm.

Barbie doll...what? Never mind. As for the issue of toes, not having them on the original was the mistake. An inflexible paddle as a foot, on a bi-ped intended to be able to traverse any terrain does not work. Adding toes was a simple fix to a glaring design flaw.

Edit: Stupid posting before finishing...

Edited by trycksh0t, 30 January 2012 - 04:47 PM.

[Yeach]

How tall is the Centurion anyways? (in regards to the non-MWO Centurion)
Can a cockpit fit in that "small" thing called a head?
If it can that person would be probably be really tiny or a midget.

For a well- enclosed cockpit (as a head), the mech would probably have to be 30 m tall.

[Strum Wealh]

Yeach, on 30 January 2012 - 06:19 PM, said:

How tall is the Centurion anyways? (in regards to the non-MWO Centurion)
Can a cockpit fit in that "small" thing called a head?
If it can that person would be probably be really tiny or a midget.

For a well- enclosed cockpit (as a head), the mech would probably have to be 30 m tall.

Tall 'Mechs are generally on the order of ~12 meters (~40 feet) tall; some of the tallest reach as much as 14 meters (~46 feet) tall if we throw in flanges and antennae and such.

The Centurion is probably not the tallest 'mech, so I would guess that it's on the order of 10-ish meters (~33 feet) tall, with the head itself being about the same size as, or slightly larger than, a Mini.

Your thoughts?

[Yeach]

Strum Wealh, on 30 January 2012 - 06:34 PM, said:

Tall 'Mechs are generally on the order of ~12 meters (~40 feet) tall; some of the tallest reach as much as 14 meters (~46 feet) tall if we throw in flanges and antennae and such.

The Centurion is probably not the tallest 'mech, so I would guess that it's on the order of 10-ish meters (~33 feet) tall, with the head itself being about the same size as, or slightly larger than, a Mini.

Your thoughts?

So 2m out of 10m is for the head?

[tyrone dunkirk]

For some reason the Centurion is starting to cause internet fist fights. The thing isn't that hard to distinguish from the original. In fact it's what the original would look like if it were actual military gear. If you don't like it, too bad it's canon. In all honesty it isn't that big of a difference!

[Strum Wealh]

Yeach, on 30 January 2012 - 06:36 PM, said:

So 2m out of 10m is for the head?

The Mini is 1.35 meters (53.1 inches) tall, 1.40 meters (55.1 inches) wide, and 3.05-3.30 meters (120.1-129.9 inches) long.

For a human:

• The skull is the basic division of the human body which is eight heads high. The parting between the legs is one quarter head below the middle of the body.
  
• 
  If you view a head from the front, its width is approximately two thirds (0.667) of its height.
  
• 
  If you view a head from the side, its width is approximately seven eighths (0.875) of its height.

1.35/10.0 = 0.135
1/8 = 0.125

1.40/1.35 = 1.04
3.30/1.35 = 2.44

So, the Centurion's head, assuming it is the same size as a large Mini and the whole 'Mech is on the order of 10 meters tall, is about right in terms of height, and is rather wide and rather long in comparison to a normally-proportioned human (which is to be expected, given the illustration).

Not bad for an off-the-cuff estimate, if I do say so myself...

Edited by Strum Wealh, 30 January 2012 - 06:56 PM.

[tyrone dunkirk]

Tsen Shang, on 30 January 2012 - 04:34 PM, said:

You seem to be the only one willing to admit it.



Agreed, it definitely needed a revamp.



How can the head shape be exactly the same if it's halfway in the torso? Would your best friend / wife / girlfriend be nearly as recognizable if half her head was in her chest? If they hadn't buried the head, the whole design would be much better and all the other things would be easy to overlook.

But instead, we have a hunchbacked barbie doll with toes and a gun on one arm.

You do realize the Centurion has always had a gun on one arm? It just wasn't that good lucking until now. Also, the Centurion isn't your wife/girlfriend ( unless you have some issues that need working out) it's a piece of military equipment. Sinking in the head and adding more armor was an intelligent move that protected the cockpit.

[Manticore]

Okay, I'm late to the table, but...

Considering that, as has been said, most of the original MW machines were lifted almost whole from Japanese anime, it's impossible to entirely forsake the "look". I'm long familiar with anime mechs, and I prefer the redesigns. Like most others here, I want a 'mass production war machine' feel, not a one-off "Champion Special".

The original Centurion, for all its capability, didn't look like a 'Mech I'd feel safe moving around in. The new one just doesn't look as fragile.
So...bring on the upgrades!



Steiner soldiers know how to fight. Too bad Steiner generals don't know how to lead.

[Yeach]

Strum Wealh, on 30 January 2012 - 06:40 PM, said:

The Mini is 1.35 meters (53.1 inches) tall, 1.40 meters (55.1 inches) wide, and 3.05-3.30 meters (120.1-129.9 inches) long.

From wiki
An average person, is generally 7-and-a-half heads tall (including the head).

So the mech would have to be 1.35m x 7.5 = 10m
So yes you are correct!!! Congraulations.

Just thinking of getting into the mini with a neuro-Helmut and cooling-vest... it would be a tight fit.

Edited by Yeach, 30 January 2012 - 06:50 PM.

[tyrone dunkirk]

Sesambrot, on 30 January 2012 - 03:05 PM, said:

The MWO-Centurion now looks that way, and most likely will not change because you keep on ranting about how "not right" it is!

Here's an advice:

coolest. Gif. Ever
looks like a steiner recon unit

Edited by tyrone dunkirk, 30 January 2012 - 07:04 PM.

[Tsen Shang]

Alex Wolfe, on 30 January 2012 - 04:37 PM, said:

...you're still unwilling to admit that it was quite an exaggeration if not flat out wrong, then... I guess you won't be willing to admit it. Which is the way of the internet forums, so it's all just as well. I guess you have the right to be as upset as you like.

Alright fine. I can mess with images too. I hope you're not unwilling to admit that it's shockingly different from the original after twice as much evidence as you gave me (TWO pictures! WooOOOOoOoOoOo [That's the ghost of Battletech past]):




And the outline, which is very important:




Not that different huh?

Wider stance
Shorter legs
Tiny waist
Huge chest
Massive arms

This thing should run like a baboon. The tiny waist it has wouldn't realistically support the upper body weight. The size of the arms would put massive strain on the waist if it tried to run as the momentum swung from one side of the body to the other. If the left or right half of this mech hit something, it would wrench apart.

Sesambrot: You're right. This mech won't change. What I MIGHT be able to change is how other mechs in the future are treated as they are brought into MWO. Maybe they will be kept truer to their originals as they are awesomeofied™ by FD. That's the point. It's all about the long run.

I'm not going to withhold my money from MWO because they messed up one mech, but if they repeatedly misrepresent Battletech you can bet your noodles I'll be gone. Pre-release info is indicative of what the quality of the game will be, how the community will be treated, and how true to Battletech they'll be. So far this has been amazing, I can only hope it will continue to be so. "Artistic freedom" is very dangerous. If Blizzard had given its original Diablo 3 team the "artistic freedoms" they wanted, we would've gotten Hellgate: London instead of the Diablo 3 we are looking at today. Fun, but not true to the IP. This is what I'm wary of.

[Kenyon Burguess]

not to get too insulting to the people that prolly worked hard drawing the earlier cents...but those are pretty amature in design. no military would ever design a mobile suit with a neck anyways. you would have moniters from multiple cameras in the pit. also, without having to worry about necks seperating heads from torsos that greatly reduces the possibility of head shots. looking at the earlier centurian thats an easy head shot to make. looking at the updated picture, only the orage faceplate could be the head shot mark.

Edited by Geist Null, 30 January 2012 - 07:53 PM.